NFL Poll : Who is the best pass rusher in the league?

[Section446]

This one is easy.

 

[big dog cowboy]

Ware.

He is a beast.

Next question. (Sorry saw Rosenhaus on TV this morning.)

 

[YosemiteSam]

Not necessarily, I think that's a poor way to look at it. All those years Tony Romo set on the bench, those years he was behind Drew Henson on the depth chart, I guess there was a reason for that too? I guess he wasn't starter material then, eh? Totally illogical argument.

Sometimes, for often a variety of reasons, some guys just don't get the chance they need until later on into their career, especially when there's talented guys in front of them. Pittsburgh has always had very talented LB's, it's hard to break through the lineup. Mike Vrabel rode the pine in Pittsburgh for years because he couldn't get past the starters in the lineup, only to move onto New England and to become a star. Hell, the Steelers have a very talented first round pick from the '07 draft who technically is still not a starter because it's hard to get playing time away from James Farrior and Larry Foote.

These situations happen sometimes. Often these guys that come from small schools don't get a chance to prove themselves until later on in their careers. I think there's a striking similarity between Harrison and Romo, so I don't understand why a Cowboys fan would try to make the argument you're making.

Yes, Romo wasn't starter material at the time and he stated as much many times. He was extremely talented, but was way to raw to play in the NFL.

 

[LearningToFly]

No, it's not. Romo wasn't starter material early in his career, which is why he wasn't a starter back then. And comparing his first couple of seasons "as a starter" to a quarterback who has been a starter since his rookie season wouldn't be fair to the other guy. There's a difference between being a fourth- or fifth-year player who has never started before and being a rookie.

Fair enough. I'm not arguing Harrison's the more talented player, I think it's close but I think Ware is an incredible talent, but Harrison is no flash in the pan either. Just because he didn't have a chance to start early in his career is no indictment of how he is as a player. I go back to the Mike Vrabel example.

But as a Steelers fan, I've often had to hear from other fans bashing Roethlisberger for how he played in the SB, even though he was just a 23 year old QB who even despite that poor performance in the SB carried the offense through most of the playoffs when the Steelers couldn't run the ball to save their life, and basically single handedly carried them against the Colts and the Broncos on the road. Fans of other teams often bring that up and hold it against him, although I would have loved to have seen a 23 year old Eli Manning, or Philip Rivers, or Tony Romo be asked to go on the road three consecutive weeks in the playoffs and get wins and then go into the SB and get a win and see how they would do.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel an argument like that is a two way street that doesn't get used like that. If it's used once it should be used in all cases. That's not an indictment of your post, but just a general thought on these types of arguments, which I guess is sort of off topic.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Fair enough. I'm not arguing Harrison's the more talented player, I think it's close but I think Ware is an incredible talent, but Harrison is no flash in the pan either. Just because he didn't have a chance to start early in his career is no indictment of how he is as a player. I go back to the Mike Vrabel example.

But as a Steelers fan, I've often had to hear from other fans bashing Roethlisberger for how he played in the SB, even though he was just a 23 year old QB who even despite that poor performance in the SB carried the offense through most of the playoffs when the Steelers couldn't run the ball to save their life, and basically single handedly carried them against the Colts and the Broncos on the road. Fans of other teams often bring that up and hold it against him, although I would have loved to have seen a 23 year old Eli Manning, or Philip Rivers, or Tony Romo be asked to go on the road three consecutive weeks in the playoffs and get wins and then go into the SB and get a win and see how they would do.

I guess what I'm saying is that I feel an argument like that is a two way street that doesn't get used like that. If it's used once it should be used in all cases. That's not an indictment of your post, but just a general thought on these types of arguments, which I guess is sort of off topic.

All I said is no way to do I take Harrison over Jared Allen. You may say Harrison isn't a flash in the pan and he very well may not be, but Allen is proven over the long haul. Something Harrison is not which I why I questioned Harrison being on the list when Allen was not. I'm not saying he didn't deserve to be on it because he is having a great year, the question was based more of why Jared Allen was NOT on the list.

 

[khiladi]

Reggie is the best I ever saw and I've seen Harvey, Deacon, and Bruce as well. No one combined his pure power with his kind of speed and size.

I will say this though. None of them could have played OLB in a 3-4 and covered receivers.

What does that say about Erik Williams prior to injury????

 

[Shinywalrus]

I didn't say he was a fluke, but you are wrong. Those sack totals DO mean something. If he wasn't a starter, there was a reason he wasn't the starter. Get my drift?

Yeah, you know, like Tony Romo.

It's a silly argument and a silly poll. Harrison is operating at a high level right now, so if someone wants to argue that he's among the best in the game based on that, I don't see why anyone needs to get their panties in a bunch just because he's only been doing it for two years.

Yeah, Ware has a more impressive body of work, is more consistent and much more talented in general, but it's not completely insane to include Harrison in the discussion. Now, voting for him on the other hand...

 

[Doomsday]

Ware is 1 and Jared Allen is 2. Then the rest of the league.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Yeah, you know, like Tony Romo.

It's a silly argument and a silly poll. Harrison is operating at a high level right now, so if someone wants to argue that he's among the best in the game based on that, I don't see why anyone needs to get their panties in a bunch just because he's only been doing it for two years.

Yeah, Ware has a more impressive body of work, is more consistent and much more talented in general, but it's not completely insane to include Harrison in the discussion. Now, voting for him on the other hand...

Don't get your yellow kitchen towl panties in a bunch about my opinion. It's only an opinion.

:steelers:

 

[EPL0c0]

www.NFL.com

You can vote on the front page of NFL.com on the bottom right hand side.


Demarcus Ware has my vote....

Ware gets my vote, but I think Mario Williams is a close #2. He doesn't have the #'s that Ware does, but I think he may be a more explosive pass rusher...just has no help there in Houston. As other guys have improved their pass rush in dallas (James, Ratliff, Ellis, etc) it's benefitted Ware because they're having to slide protection over to get those guys too.

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

D-Ware is currently in the lead with 32% of the vote...

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Ware gets my vote, but I think Mario Williams is a close #2. He doesn't have the #'s that Ware does, but I think he may be a more explosive pass rusher...just has no help there in Houston. As other guys have improved their pass rush in dallas (James, Ratliff, Ellis, etc) it's benefitted Ware because they're having to slide protection over to get those guys too.

Nobody is more explosive than Ware, sorry.

 

[DaBoys4Life]

Dware is a beast .

 

[Nexx]

Not as impressive as Reggie White's 70 sacks in four years. (Average 17.5 per season!)

[/code]How about that 21 sacks in 12 games! (1.75 sacks per game) He averaged .85 per game for his career. He did his entire career was Ware was doing this year when he was getting one sack a game!

Reggie was in a league of his own. I've never seen another person just swat 300+ pound lineman out of the way to get to the QB. Poor Erik Williams was a victim on many occasions. :laugh2:

 

[AKATheRake]

Not as impressive as Reggie White's 70 sacks in four years. (Average 17.5 per season!)

Year    AGE    Team    LG    GP    SK    
1985    23    PHI     NFL     13    13.0    
1986    24    PHI     NFL     16    18.0    
1987    25    PHI     NFL     12    21.0    
1988    26    PHI     NFL     16    18.0    
1989    27    PHI     NFL     16    11.0    
1990    28    PHI     NFL     16    14.0        
1991    29    PHI     NFL     16    15.0        
1992    30    PHI     NFL     16    14.0    
1993    31    GNB     NFL     16    13.0    
1994    32    GNB     NFL     16    8.0    
1995    33    GNB     NFL     15    12.0    
1996    34    GNB     NFL     16    8.5    
1997    35    GNB     NFL     16    11.0    
1998    36    GNB     NFL     16    16.0    
2000    38    CAR     NFL     16    5.5    
15 NFL Season Totals         232    198.0

How about that 21 sacks in 12 games! (1.75 sacks per game) He averaged .85 per game for his career. He did his entire career was Ware was doing this year when he was getting one sack a game!

That's what I've been telling these guys for a week now. Ware is awesome, the best pass rusher in the league and probably the best defensive player in the league today. But the majority of zoners are telling me he's better than a Lawrence Taylor or Reggie White because of his stats. Well Ware's stats don't prove he's better and although the start of his career is impressive he still has a long way to go to touch those guys careers and stats. LT and Reggie are considered maybe the best 2 defensive players of all time and are considered maybe top 5 players of all time.

 

[theogt]

Do you know of anyone who votes on this award that's actually stated that?

And yes, I can pull you a quote for a voter who said they have Ware as their DPOY.

I'll take that as a "no."

 

[TheCount]

That's what I've been telling these guys for a week now. Ware is awesome, the best pass rusher in the league and probably the best defensive player in the league today. But the majority of zoners are telling me he's better than a Lawrence Taylor or Reggie White because of his stats. Well Ware's stats don't prove he's better and although the start of his career is impressive he still has a long way to go to touch those guys careers and stats. LT and Reggie are considered maybe the best 2 defensive players of all time and are considered maybe top 5 players of all time.

Someone told you he's better than Reggie White?

 

[Go Big D!]

You can also vote for him here for defensive player of the week:

http://www.nfl.com/partner?partnerType=players-defense

 

[Shinywalrus]

I'll take that as a "no."

Well, Peter King has Harrison as his #5 on his MVP list, so the sentiment is not exactly foreign.

I think it's bizarre - he's not individually deserving. If you want to call the Steelers LB corps or the Giants DL the "MVP" (which the rules actually allow for the award), that's one thing, but arguing him for MVP is strange.

As much as I would absolutely dread losing Ware (knock on wood), the thought of losing Romo again terrifies me more.

 

[theogt]

Well, Peter King has Harrison as his #5 on his MVP list, so the sentiment is not exactly foreign.

I think it's bizarre - he's not individually deserving. If you want to call the Steelers LB corps or the Giants DL the "MVP" (which the rules actually allow for the award), that's one thing, but arguing him for MVP is strange.

As much as I would absolutely dread losing Ware (knock on wood), the thought of losing Romo again terrifies me more.

King also has Ware as his DPOY, not Harrison.