Nice stat on #1 QB's and 10 reasons to get one.

[Hostile]

Duh, you can bust in any round, but how many 2nd or 3rd round qbs ask for 20 million guaranteed. The National Football League has changed, it clearly hurts more than it helps to pick a 1st round QB, and besides our best QB was a late rounder.

Had Staubach not had Naval commitments he would have been the overall #1 pick. Not a doubt in my mind.

 

[Hostile]

Well you got one with Bledsoe. Lets see what that gets you.

Bledsoe has not lived up to his potential. That's just being honest.

 

[fancow]

Proof that I was right not to be impressed with your football knowledge.

Or rather, lack thereof.

You would rather have him in history than Aikman??????????????

Knowledge is King

 

[Hostile]

You would rather have him in history than Aikman??????????????

Knowledge is King

Yes, and so would most Cowboy fans who were fans in the 70's and 80's. You never saw him play most likely, so no surprise.

When talking about the best QBs ever Staubach is in the conversation. As good as Aikman was he probably isn't.

Indeed, knowledge is king.

 

[jterrell]

SB XVI
Joe Montana...3rd round
Ken Anderson...3rd round

SB XVII
Joe Theisman...4th round
David Woodley...8th round

SB XVIII
[/color][/color][/color][/color]Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Joe Theisman...4th round

SB XIX
Joe Montana...3rd round
Dan Marino...1st round (27th overall)

SB XX
Jim McMahon...1st round (5th overall)
Steve Grogan...5th round

SB XXI
Phil Simms...1st round (7th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXII
Doug Williams...1st round (17th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXIII
Joe Montana...3rd round
Norman Esiason...2nd round

SB XXIV
Joe Montana...3rd round
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXV
Jeff Hostetler...3rd round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVI
Mark Rypien...6th round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVIII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXIX
Steve Young...1st round (Overall #1) ***USFL***
Stan Humphries...6th round

SB XXX
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Neil O'Donnell...3rd round

SB XXXI
Brett Favre...2nd round
Drew Bledsoe...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXXII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Brett Favre...2nd round

SB XXXIII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Chris Chandler...3rd round

SB XXXIV
Kurt Warner...undrafted
Steve McNair...1st round (3rd overall)

SB XXXV
Trent Dilfer...1st round (6th overall)
Kerry Collins...1st round (5th overall)

SB XXXVI
Tom Brady...6th round
Kurt Warner...undrafted

SB XXXVII
Brad Johnson...4th round
Rich Gannon...9th round

SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady...6th round
Jake Delhomme...undrafted

SB XXXIX
Tom Brady...6th round
Donovan McNabb...1st round (2nd overall)

Okay, by my math there are 39 Super Bowl winning QBs and 78 Super Bowl QBs. There was something weird about Seve Young's draft history. Tampa had his rights. He was overall #1 by the USFL but an NFL site I used listed him as a 1st. I'm using him, because he had that kind of talent.

21 of the 39 Winners were 1st rounders. That's 54% of the time the winning QB is a 1st rounder.

37 of the 78 who have led their team to the game. That's 47% of the time a QB plays in the Super Bowl he is a 1st rounder.

12 of the 39 Super Bowls have been won by the overall #1 pick of a draft. That is 31% of the time.

29 of the 78 Super Bowl QBs were drafted in the top 10 of their drafts. That's 37%.

This is why I am a QB elitest. Can you win without an elite QB? Sure you can. I like the odds better of winning one, or more importantly, more than 1, with an elite QB.

I'd also like to say that had Roger Staubach not gone to the Navy he would have been a top 10 pick, likely overall #1 and these numbers go up.

This is why I like Drew Henson so much. I know there are guys here who do not like to hear it but he was being projected as the overall #1 before he opted to go play baseball. I hope our Coaching staff can tap into that talent. If they can't, how sad.

This argument falls flat in a couple of areas.

1st. Trent Dilfer lends credit to your 1st round Qb argument yet also gets labeled a spare. In fact he and Kerry Collins are both considered journeyman yet get credit as 1st round QBs. Are we arguing elite QBs like Staubach, Montana, Favre ya know like the best ever or merely 1st rounders??

2nd Statistical evidence needs to be relevant and to do so must stand the test of time. These stats are skewed horrendously to pre-salary cap era football. It makes the risk inherently different in drafting QBs 1st overall or even round 1 because you lose that pick and that cap money.

3rd. In the past 5 years out of 10 QBs 3 have been 1st rounders. 2 of those 3 after bouncing around a bit. McNabb is the only franchise 1st round guy in the past 5 years to make a Super Bowl. Brady is a franchise guy but he was a 6th round pick back then.

If you love 1st overall QBs you should love Drew Bledsoe NOT Drew Henson. Quincy Carter was also talked about as a 1st overall pick after his freshman season at Georgia. Talked about does not equate to IS. It was common knowledge Henson was failing as a baseball player and yet he didnt get drafted highly. The reason was his lack of play. No matter a guys physical skills QB is more than anything about intangibles that are unseen. You dont gain those playing baseball.

Drew Bledsoe is your perfect numbert 1 example. He took the team that drafted him to a Super Bowl. He is top 10 on career passing yardage. He has been healthy all but one season.

I havent given up on Drew Henson as a player here but he is not a franchise QB in the sense of a 1st overall rookie being brought in. He's already advanced beyond a kid player and if he does start he will be looking at a limited stretch not some 10 year haul.

 

[fancow]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman

 

[Justis]

I do not agree.

The high paid QBs will get their teams in line for a shot, year after year. The "bus drivers" won't.

You misunderstand me, I don't want a bus driver. I want a draft pick who either comes cheap enough that his bust won't sink the team, or a proven veteran who can lead the team. I'd never wan't Trent Dilfer. I'd never want Matt Leinart either. I want Drew Bledsoe, or Drew Brees, or Kerry Collins. Guys some other team took the chance on developing, and we can reap the benefits. Instead of throwing away a high draft pick on some parasite that may never depelop into anything and cost our franchise 3-4 years of progress. Like what has happened to most teams that have chosen to draft a QB in the 1st round.

 

[Hostile]

This argument falls flat in a couple of areas.

1st. Trent Dilfer lends credit to your 1st round Qb argument yet also gets labeled a spare. In fact he and Kerry Collins are both considered journeyman yet get credit as 1st round QBs. Are we arguing elite QBs like Staubach, Montana, Favre ya know like the best ever or merely 1st rounders??

2nd Statistical evidence needs to be relevant and to do so must stand the test of time. These stats are skewed horrendously to pre-salary cap era football. It makes the risk inherently different in drafting QBs 1st overall or even round 1 because you lose that pick and that cap money.

3rd. In the past 5 years out of 10 QBs 3 have been 1st rounders. 2 of those 3 after bouncing around a bit. McNabb is the only franchise 1st round guy in the past 5 years to make a Super Bowl. Brady is a franchise guy but he was a 6th round pick back then.

If you love 1st overall QBs you should love Drew Bledsoe NOT Drew Henson. Quincy Carter was also talked about as a 1st overall pick after his freshman season at Georgia. Talked about does not equate to IS. It was common knowledge Henson was failing as a baseball player and yet he didnt get drafted highly. The reason was his lack of play. No matter a guys physical skills QB is more than anything about intangibles that are unseen. You dont gain those playing baseball.

Drew Bledsoe is your perfect numbert 1 example. He took the team that drafted him to a Super Bowl. He is top 10 on career passing yardage. He has been healthy all but one season.

I havent given up on Drew Henson as a player here but he is not a franchise QB in the sense of a 1st overall rookie being brought in. He's already advanced beyond a kid player and if he does start he will be looking at a limited stretch not some 10 year haul.

When did I say I hate Drew Bledsoe JT? I do say I like developing young QBs over other team's retreads.

I'm behind Bledsoe 100%. I am also pretty excited about the potential for the future.

I argued just 1st rounders as that was the subject of this thread, but I have addressed Staubach, Montana, and Brady as elite QBs. I don't consider Plunkett elite despite the 2 SB wins, yet he was the overall #1 and a Heisman winner.

I stayed within the topic of the thread. Other wise I would have added a lot more.

 

[Justis]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman

you better be joking.

 

[jterrell]

Yes, and so would most Cowboy fans who were fans in the 70's and 80's. You never saw him play most likely, so no surprise.

When talking about the best QBs ever Staubach is in the conversation. As good as Aikman was he probably isn't.

Indeed, knowledge is king.

I absolutely agree here.

I was a kid for Staubach and not a stats geek like now but I remembered all those nights I couldnt sleep because my heart was beating out of its chest after another Cowboys comeback against the Skins usually on Monday night.

I looked up Staubachs stats one day out of curiousty and the guy was incredible in his TD to INT ratio. For a guy who took so many Favre-like chances for big plays I was amazed his TD-INT ratio WAS BETTER THAN Aikman's. WOW!!

Staubach was magical. Still is in fact. I pray he runs for President soon.

 

[Hostile]

Uh I am 40, I saw staubach.

Who would you prefer in todays nfl? aikman or staubach?

I would go with theisman

You're 40, but have to ask who our best QB ever is?

 

[Hostile]

You misunderstand me, I don't want a bus driver. I want a draft pick who either comes cheap enough that his bust won't sink the team, or a proven veteran who can lead the team. I'd never wan't Trent Dilfer. I'd never want Matt Leinart either. I want Drew Bledsoe, or Drew Brees, or Kerry Collins. Guys some other team took the chance on developing, and we can reap the benefits. Instead of throwing away a high draft pick on some parasite that may never depelop into anything and cost our franchise 3-4 years of progress. Like what has happened to most teams that have chosen to draft a QB in the 1st round.

Then you should enjoy this year.

None of our 3 QBs are strangling the cap.

Mark my words though, we will fear Eli Manning for many years despite his price because QB play matters more than any other position when it comes to winning.

 

[Hostile]

I absolutely agree here.

I was a kid for Staubach and not a stats geek like now but I remembered all those nights I couldnt sleep because my heart was beating out of its chest after another Cowboys comeback against the Skins usually on Monday night.

I looked up Staubachs stats one day out of curiousty and the guy was incredible in his TD to INT ratio. For a guy who took so many Favre-like chances for big plays I was amazed his TD-INT ratio WAS BETTER THAN Aikman's. WOW!!

Staubach was magical. Still is in fact. I pray he runs for President soon.

He was my first hero and I doubt anyone will ever ascend his throne. Magical is exactly right. He was the epitome of elite QB. Dan marino, Steve Young, and John Elway all admitted he was their hero and who they patterned their games after. He gave 5 years of the prime of his career to the Armed Forces. His stats might have been off the charts other wise and they are already amazing.

 

[Justis]

Then you should enjoy this year.

None of our 3 QBs are strangling the cap.

Mark my words though, we will fear Eli Manning for many years despite his price because QB play matters more than any other position when it comes to winning.

Fear? Nah... respect perhaps. The Giants have given away two drafts for this guy, and clearly they suffer on defense, maybe we can have a few shootouts with this guy, but fear? Your living in the past man, (not the good past) you need to get your fangs back, the Boys' are fixing to be predators in the league again. No fear from us, for us perhaps.

 

[jterrell]

When did I say I hate Drew Bledsoe JT? I do say I like developing young QBs over other team's retreads.

I'm behind Bledsoe 100%. I am also pretty excited about the potential for the future.

I argued just 1st rounders as that was the subject of this thread, but I have addressed Staubach, Montana, and Brady as elite QBs. I don't consider Plunkett elite despite the 2 SB wins, yet he was the overall #1 and a Heisman winner.

I stayed within the topic of the thread. Other wise I would have added a lot more.

Now you are arguing with yourself.

I never said you hate Bledsoe. I said based on your argument for liking Henson (i.e. first overall picks) Bledsoe is a better fit logically as a number 1 overall, proven franchise guy. Now you have changed that argument apparently to denigrate Bledsoe as a retread which is true but also probably a foolish football move on behalf of the Bills. When he went to Buffalo he went for a very nice trade cache so not exactly retreading at that point. Not anymore than Steve Young or John Elway anyways.

Retreads are what seems to be going to Super Bowls nowadays. Delhomme, Dilfer, Collins, Warner, even Favre. McNair made 1 SB and McNabb has as well. So the "running QBs" are the only true franchise non-retread 1st rounders to go to the Super Bowl in recent history. Even with Elway you had a guy at the very end who was really a retread on his own team in changed styles. And you point out Aikman who was undoubtedly great but filled a bus driver role as well as anyone in history. He stuck to the script passing to Irvin and handing it to Emmitt.

 

[jterrell]

He was my first hero and I doubt anyone will ever ascend his throne. Magical is exactly right. He was the epitome of elite QB. Dan marino, Steve Young, and John Elway all admitted he was their hero and who they patterned their games after. He gave 5 years of the prime of his career to the Armed Forces. His stats might have been off the charts other wise and they are already amazing.

jesus
staubach


some hot chicks
everyone else



Commanders fans, eagles fans, the devil, 49er fans, osama bin laden

 

[Hostile]

Fear? Nah... respect perhaps. The Giants have given away two drafts for this guy, and clearly they suffer on defense, maybe we can have a few shootouts with this guy, but fear? Your living in the past man, (not the good past) you need to get your fangs back, the Boys' are fixing to be predators in the league again. No fear from us, for us perhaps.

I'm not hung up on the difference between fear and respect.

It's cool.

 

[Hostile]

Now you are arguing with yourself.

I never said you hate Bledsoe. I said based on your argument for liking Henson (i.e. first overall picks) Bledsoe is a better fit logically as a number 1 overall, proven franchise guy. Now you have changed that argument apparently to denigrate Bledsoe as a retread which is true but also probably a foolish football move on behalf of the Bills. When he went to Buffalo he went for a very nice trade cache so not exactly retreading at that point. Not anymore than Steve Young or John Elway anyways.

Retreads are what seems to be going to Super Bowls nowadays. Delhomme, Dilfer, Collins, Warner, even Favre. McNair made 1 SB and McNabb has as well. So the "running QBs" are the only true franchise non-retread 1st rounders to go to the Super Bowl in recent history. Even with Elway you had a guy at the very end who was really a retread on his own team in changed styles. And you point out Aikman who was undoubtedly great but filled a bus driver role as well as anyone in history. He stuck to the script passing to Irvin and handing it to Emmitt.

I do not agree that Aikman was a bus driver. I never will.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Bledsoe and Henson. If you remember I wanted us to get Collins when he was available. I don't hate retreads. I just said if we can develop Henson to reach his potential I am going to love it because he is basically ours. He's never really belonged to anyone else.

Elway was not a retread.

 

[jterrell]

I do not agree that Aikman was a bus driver. I never will.

I have no idea what you're talking about with regards to Bledsoe and Henson. If you remember I wanted us to get Collins when he was available. I don't hate retreads. I just said if we can develop Henson to reach his potential I am going to love it because he is basically ours. He's never really belonged to anyone else.

Elway was not a retread.

Henson has belonged to both the New York Yankees and the Houston Texans since he left college. I wouldn't call him a retread but he is not a traditional 1st round franchise guy by any means. He has what 5 seasons of professional sports under his belt yet has started 1 NFL game? Drew Bledsoe had taken his team to a Super Bowl by then.

Elway himself admits he was no where near the QB he had been when they won those titles. He was gray-headed and playing within himself and the confines of the offense.

The problem with the term bus driver is everyone wants to create their own definition so it becomes a completely sematical argument.

Troy Aikman was efficient but calculated. He stayed within the offense at all times and relied on execution not superior play to win games. He seldom passed for high yardage totals or produced comeback wins. He had a fine bus to drive and he drove it to the promised land. There was little chance Aikman would ever lose a game where he had the best team or raise a team on his own when they were inferior. IMHO thats the perfect definiton of a bus driver. And I think Aikman was the best in the modern history of the game.

 

[Hostile]

Henson has belonged to both the New York Yankees and the Houston Texans since he left college. I wouldn't call him a retread but he is not a traditional 1st round franchise guy by any means. He has what 5 seasons of professional sports under his belt yet has started 1 NFL game? Drew Bledsoe had taken his team to a Super Bowl by then.

Elway himself admits he was no where near the QB he had been when they won those titles. He was gray-headed and playing within himself and the confines of the offense.

The problem with the term bus driver is everyone wants to create their own definition so it becomes a completely sematical argument.

Troy Aikman was efficient but calculated. He stayed within the offense at all times and relied on execution not superior play to win games. He seldom passed for high yardage totals or produced comeback wins. He had a fine bus to drive and he drove it to the promised land. There was little chance Aikman would ever lose a game where he had the best team or raise a team on his own when they were inferior. IMHO thats the perfect definiton of a bus driver. And I think Aikman was the best in the modern history of the game.

To me that is a chaffeur, not a bus driver.

Retread means belonged to someone else or paid their dues somewhere else. Elway was a Bronco even though he was drafted by Baltimore.

I haven't said Henson is traditional anything other than a player who was projected as the top overall pick and that I hope our coaching staff can develop that potential. That excites me. I love that kind of potential.