Nice stat on #1 QB's and 10 reasons to get one.

[JackMagist]

Even better, we could get him in the 3rd or 4th. Sporting News had a good tidbit about him saying he is more comfortable throwing than taking off and running. His only drawback is he is 5'11. I stll don't care, if we got him in the 3rd I'd be ecstatic.

Who are you talking about being 5'11"? You were responding to a post about Vince Young (the one from Texas I assume) and he is 6'5" not 5'11".

Vince Young #10
Height: 6-5
Weight: 233
Class: Jr.-2L
Hometown: Houston, TX (Madison)

Not that I am particularly enamored with him personally but he does have a cannon for an arm and he has the prototype size. I think he does depend on his own playmaking ability in running the ball too much and I have seen him throw some passes that were way off the mark. But size is NOT a problem with him.

 

[fancow]

You're 40, but have to ask who our best QB ever is?

Actually I am 40 but the pain of losing to Aikman is alot more recent

I was too young then. So with Staubach I don't really remember how good he was. I just remember the excitement of the rivalry and the games.

Just curious because I have no idea. What are Aikman -vs- Staubach stats?

Years Played, Superbowls won/lost, passing stats? Anyone know?

 

[jterrell]

Actually I am 40 but the pain of losing to Aikman is alot more recent

I was too young then. So with Staubach I don't really remember how good he was. I just remember the excitement of the rivalry and the games.

Just curious because I have no idea. What are Aikman -vs- Staubach stats?

Years Played, Superbowls won/lost, passing stats? Anyone know?

Really the most notable stat is the fantasy stats as the bottom. Staubach was a top 5 QB in fantasy world 8 out of 9 seasons which means he was producing yards and touchdown passes at amongst the highest rates in the NFL.

+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Passing | Rushing |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| Year TM | G | Comp Att PCT YD Y/A TD INT | Att Yards TD |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| 1969 dal | 6 | 23 47 48.9 421 9.0 1 2 | 15 60 1 |
| 1970 dal | 8 | 44 82 53.7 542 6.6 2 8 | 27 221 0 |
| 1971 dal | 13 | 126 211 59.7 1882 8.9 15 4 | 41 343 2 |
| 1972 dal | 4 | 9 20 45.0 98 4.9 0 2 | 6 45 0 |
| 1973 dal | 14 | 179 286 62.6 2428 8.5 23 15 | 46 250 3 |
| 1974 dal | 14 | 190 360 52.8 2552 7.1 11 15 | 47 320 3 |
| 1975 dal | 13 | 198 348 56.9 2666 7.7 17 16 | 55 316 4 |
| 1976 dal | 14 | 208 369 56.4 2715 7.4 14 11 | 43 184 3 |
| 1977 dal | 14 | 210 361 58.2 2620 7.3 18 9 | 51 171 3 |
| 1978 dal | 15 | 231 413 55.9 3190 7.7 25 16 | 42 182 1 |
| 1979 dal | 16 | 267 461 57.9 3586 7.8 27 11 | 37 172 0 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+
| TOTAL | 131 | 1685 2958 57.0 22700 7.7 153 109 | 410 2264 20 |
+----------+-----+---------------------------------------+-----------------+


Seasons among the league's top 10
Pass attempts: 1973-8, 1974-3, 1975-5, 1976-4, 1977-3, 1978-6, 1979-8
Completions: 1973-4t, 1974-6, 1975-4, 1976-3t, 1977-3, 1978-6, 1979-8
Passing yards: 1973-4t, 1974-4, 1975-3, 1976-5, 1977-3, 1978-4, 1979-7
Passing TDs: 1971-8t, 1973-1t, 1974-10t, 1975-8, 1976-9t, 1977-3t, 1978-2t, 1979-3
Adjusted yards per pass: 1971-1, 1973-2, 1974-9, 1975-5, 1976-7, 1977-2, 1978-1, 1979-1

Roger Staubach is not in the all-time top 50 in any major category.


Postseason data
Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections. In particular, note that postseason data is currently available only for the years 1975-2003, so this player's entire postseason career might not be shown here.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1975 min W,17-14 | 17 29 256 1 0 | 7 24 0
1975 ram W,37-7 | 16 26 220 4 1 | 7 54 0
*1975 pit L,17-21 | 15 24 204 2 3 | 5 22 0
1976 ram L,12-14 | 15 37 150 0 3 | 2 8 0
1977 chi W,37-7 | 8 13 134 1 1 | 4 25 0
1977 min W,23-6 | 12 23 165 1 1 | 4 4 0
*1977 den W,27-10 | 17 25 183 1 0 | 3 6 0
1978 atl W,27-20 | 7 17 105 0 0 | 1 3 0
1978 ram W,28-0 | 13 25 126 2 2 | 3 7 0
*1978 pit L,31-35 | 17 30 228 3 1 | 4 37 0
1979 ram L,19-21 | 13 28 150 1 1 | 1 3 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 150 277 1921 16 13 | 41 193 0


* - Super Bowl

Fantasy Football Data
Explanation

Year Value Pos. Rank Overall Rank
--------------------------------------------------
1970 0 36 350
1971 61 5 14
1972 0 49 360
1973 106 2 7
1974 78 5 12
1975 100 3 8
1976 58 5 22
1977 91 1 6
1978 87 2 4
1979 64 3 17
--------------------------------------------------
644

 

[Sarge]

Marcus ....Vick...Book it!

In the first round????

What are you smoking?

 

[Hostile]

Actually I am 40 but the pain of losing to Aikman is alot more recent

I was too young then. So with Staubach I don't really remember how good he was. I just remember the excitement of the rivalry and the games.

Just curious because I have no idea. What are Aikman -vs- Staubach stats?

Years Played, Superbowls won/lost, passing stats? Anyone know?

I don't really do stats because I think you can skew them in too many ways.

A wise old cowboy once told me that liars figure and figures lie.

An example would be a comparison of Vinny Testaverde's stats to Troy Aikman's. Looking at them you'd think Vinny was a better QB. Not on his best day and troy's worst.

Comparing Staubach and Aikman by their stats is worthless.

Lastly you need not ask if anyone knows their stats. Trust me, we all know. This is our area.

 

[jterrell]

I don't really do stats because I think you can skew them in too many ways.

A wise old cowboy once told me that liars figure and figures lie.

An example would be a comparison of Vinny Testaverde's stats to Troy Aikman's. Looking at them you'd think Vinny was a better QB. Not on his best day and troy's worst.

Comparing Staubach and Aikman by their stats is worthless.

Lastly you need not ask if anyone knows their stats. Trust me, we all know. This is our area.

When judged as a whole VT's stats are no where near Aikman's. Stats dont lie, people do. Stats are often misrepresented but it doesn't make them scary or meaningless. There are foxes and hedgehogs. I am a hedgehog. I think we debate so strongly because you are a fox. And dont take that as an insult, most of the world's greatest thinkers have been foxes including Plato who undoubtedly would hate stats.


What Aikman has that is really only challenged by Montana or Young is his post season work. At one point Aikman had 23 TD passes and 10 INTs. WOW!!! He also holds records for highest passer rating over a playoff season. And the pesky little Super Bowl MVP thing that Vinny might get if he plays 100 years and all the other players on the field get injured:

Postseason data
Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1991 det L,6-38 | 11 16 114 0 1 | 2 0 0
1992 phi W,34-10 | 15 25 200 2 0 | 3 13 0
1992 sfo W,30-20 | 24 34 322 2 0 | 3 -3 0
*1992 buf W,52-17 | 22 30 273 4 0 | 3 28 0
1993 gnb W,27-17 | 28 37 302 3 2 | 3 0 0
1993 sfo W,38-21 | 14 18 177 3 0 | 3 25 0
*1993 buf W,30-13 | 19 27 207 0 1 | 1 3 0
1994 gnb W,35-9 | 23 30 337 2 1 | 1 2 0
1994 sfo L,28-38 | 30 53 380 2 3 | 1 9 0
1995 phi W,30-11 | 17 24 253 1 1 | 1 3 0
1995 gnb W,38-27 | 21 33 255 2 0 | 3 6 0
*1995 pit W,27-17 | 15 23 209 1 0 | 4 -3 0
1996 min W,40-15 | 19 29 178 0 1 | 2 4 1
1996 car L,17-26 | 18 36 165 1 3 | 1 0 0
1998 ari L,7-20 | 22 49 191 1 3 | 1 0 0
1999 min L,10-27 | 22 38 286 0 1 | 0 0 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 320 502 3849 24 17 | 32 87 1

 

[Hostile]

When judged as a whole VT's stats are no where near Aikman's. Stats dont lie, people do. Stats are often misrepresented but it doesn't make them scary or meaningless. There are foxes and hedgehogs. I am a hedgehog. I think we debate so strongly because you are a fox. And dont take that as an insult, most of the world's greatest thinkers have been foxes including Plato who undoubtedly would hate stats.


What Aikman has that is really only challenged by Montana or Young is his post season work. At one point Aikman had 23 TD passes and 10 INTs. WOW!!! He also holds records for highest passer rating over a playoff season. And the pesky little Super Bowl MVP thing that Vinny might get if he plays 100 years and all the other players on the field get injured:

Postseason data
Please read this fine print before using this data or sending questions or corrections.

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
1991 det L,6-38 | 11 16 114 0 1 | 2 0 0
1992 phi W,34-10 | 15 25 200 2 0 | 3 13 0
1992 sfo W,30-20 | 24 34 322 2 0 | 3 -3 0
*1992 buf W,52-17 | 22 30 273 4 0 | 3 28 0
1993 gnb W,27-17 | 28 37 302 3 2 | 3 0 0
1993 sfo W,38-21 | 14 18 177 3 0 | 3 25 0
*1993 buf W,30-13 | 19 27 207 0 1 | 1 3 0
1994 gnb W,35-9 | 23 30 337 2 1 | 1 2 0
1994 sfo L,28-38 | 30 53 380 2 3 | 1 9 0
1995 phi W,30-11 | 17 24 253 1 1 | 1 3 0
1995 gnb W,38-27 | 21 33 255 2 0 | 3 6 0
*1995 pit W,27-17 | 15 23 209 1 0 | 4 -3 0
1996 min W,40-15 | 19 29 178 0 1 | 2 4 1
1996 car L,17-26 | 18 36 165 1 3 | 1 0 0
1998 ari L,7-20 | 22 49 191 1 3 | 1 0 0
1999 min L,10-27 | 22 38 286 0 1 | 0 0 0
---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------
TOTAL | 320 502 3849 24 17 | 32 87 1

JT, you're too smart to be that naive as to think that someone can't take stats and skew them. It happens all the time.

 

[Galian Beast]

1: Round in which the six highest-rated passers in the NFL all were drafted


Top 6 passers right now were all drafted in the first round. Coincidence? Obviously not, people may point to teams like the Ravens who won the superbowl with Dilfer, or Brady a 6th round pick. But for the most part if you want a qb with big time potential it has to be done in the first. It's a risky move, but sometimes you have to have the balls to make the move, that's been put off for far too long.

The reason why we would need to do this in 2006 is this: the rookie qb needs to sit one year or possibly even 2 max, before they can be a starter, and usually breakout in the 3rd year. If we draft a qb in 2006, Bledsoe will still definitely be the starter, and whoever we get (probably in mid to late first round) would have no pressure on him to do anything. Depending on how well Bledsoe played and how well the rookie was progressing, Bledsoe could even end up starting in 2007.

The time is perfect to select a young qb.
1)We've got the luxury of a sure starter for once in a really long time with Bledsoe.
2) we've got a defense that is on the verge of breakout, and has a lot of young guys who are starters/future starters.
3) we've got one of the best Running games in the league, JJ is a workhorse beast, and imo TT and Barber will be very good backs after they get more game time.
4) Bledsoe is a nice guy who is actually willing to teach a young guy things, similar to the way Rivera is. Bledsoe wouldnt be too arrogant or scared of losing his job too mentor the young guy. and Bledsoe would be at the end of a very good possibly HOF career and would really have nothing left to prove besides maybe a super bowl.
5) great coach with a keen eye for scouting. If we did draft a qb in the first round, odds are Parcells would choose the right one.
6) Henson is already 3rd on the depth chart, and with his relatively cheap contract, we could keep him on the team for the next couple years at a low cost, without having to cut Bledsoe or the rookie.
7) Dallas has the potential to be a super bowl contender in the next few years, and with Bledsoe at the end of his career we would need a big time qb capable of taking us all the way to the promised land.
8) we wouldnt be taking a QB #1 overall so the contract would be immensely smaller compared to an Alex Smith or Rivers type contract. Our pick next year is going to be from 15-32 most likely somewhere in the 20's. We could get a very good quality qb and still be able to keep henson.
9) This coming year should be a pretty good overall group of QB's. Besides the obvious franchise qb of leinart, Omar Jacobs will probably come out, Quinn could come out, Vince Young might, Reggie McNeal, and a few others who could shoot up depending on this college season.
10) last reason is, what would the cowboys be without their usual Franchise QB. we've got the trademark big play RB with JJ in now. We need our trademark QB to get Dallas back to the superbowl.

It is fine and dandy to look at the succesful players drafted in round 1. But why don't you look at the flops too?

We have Henson, he is our future qb, deal with it.

We're a couple catalytic players away from being the best team in the nfl. We don't waste a first rounder on a quarterback.

 

[TruBlueCowboy]

I make no bones about being a QB elitest. You want to accuse me of it? I plead guilty.

Consider this list I have submitted before. This is the Super Bowl winning and losing QBs and where they were drafted.

SB I
Bart Starr...17th round
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)

SB II
Bart Starr...17th round
Daryle Lamonica...12th round

SB III
Joe Namath...1st round (Overall #1)
Johnny Unitas...9th round

SB IV
Len Dawson...1st round (5th overall)
Joe Kapp...18th round

SB V
Earl Morrall...1st round (2nd overall)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB VI
Roger Staubach...10th round
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)

SB VII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Billy Kilmer...1st round (11th overall)

SB VIII
Bob Griese...1st round (4th overall)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB IX
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB X
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XI
Ken Stabler...2nd round
Fran Tarkenton...3rd round

SB XII
Roger Staubach...10th round
Craig Morton...1st round (5th overall)

SB XIII
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Roger Staubach...10th round

SB XIV
Terry Bradshaw...1st round (Overall #1)
Vince Ferragamo...4th round

SB XV
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Ron Jaworski...2nd round

SB XVI
Joe Montana...3rd round
Ken Anderson...3rd round

SB XVII
Joe Theisman...4th round
David Woodley...8th round

SB XVIII
Jim Plunkett...1st round (Overall #1)
Joe Theisman...4th round

SB XIX
Joe Montana...3rd round
Dan Marino...1st round (27th overall)

SB XX
Jim McMahon...1st round (5th overall)
Steve Grogan...5th round

SB XXI
Phil Simms...1st round (7th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXII
Doug Williams...1st round (17th overall)
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXIII
Joe Montana...3rd round
Norman Esiason...2nd round

SB XXIV
Joe Montana...3rd round
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXV
Jeff Hostetler...3rd round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVI
Mark Rypien...6th round
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXVIII
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Jim Kelly...1st round (14th overall)

SB XXIX
Steve Young...1st round (Overall #1) ***USFL***
Stan Humphries...6th round

SB XXX
Troy Aikman...1st round (Overall #1)
Neil O'Donnell...3rd round

SB XXXI
Brett Favre...2nd round
Drew Bledsoe...1st round (Overall #1)

SB XXXII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Brett Favre...2nd round

SB XXXIII
John Elway...1st round (Overall #1)
Chris Chandler...3rd round

SB XXXIV
Kurt Warner...undrafted
Steve McNair...1st round (3rd overall)

SB XXXV
Trent Dilfer...1st round (6th overall)
Kerry Collins...1st round (5th overall)

SB XXXVI
Tom Brady...6th round
Kurt Warner...undrafted

SB XXXVII
Brad Johnson...4th round
Rich Gannon...9th round

SB XXXVIII
Tom Brady...6th round
Jake Delhomme...undrafted

SB XXXIX
Tom Brady...6th round
Donovan McNabb...1st round (2nd overall)

Okay, by my math there are 39 Super Bowl winning QBs and 78 Super Bowl QBs. There was something weird about Seve Young's draft history. Tampa had his rights. He was overall #1 by the USFL but an NFL site I used listed him as a 1st. I'm using him, because he had that kind of talent.

21 of the 39 Winners were 1st rounders. That's 54% of the time the winning QB is a 1st rounder.

37 of the 78 who have led their team to the game. That's 47% of the time a QB plays in the Super Bowl he is a 1st rounder.

12 of the 39 Super Bowls have been won by the overall #1 pick of a draft. That is 31% of the time.

29 of the 78 Super Bowl QBs were drafted in the top 10 of their drafts. That's 37%.

This is why I am a QB elitest. Can you win without an elite QB? Sure you can. I like the odds better of winning one, or more importantly, more than 1, with an elite QB.

I'd also like to say that had Roger Staubach not gone to the Navy he would have been a top 10 pick, likely overall #1 and these numbers go up.

This is why I like Drew Henson so much. I know there are guys here who do not like to hear it but he was being projected as the overall #1 before he opted to go play baseball. I hope our Coaching staff can tap into that talent. If they can't, how sad.

Nice stat.

 

[Galian Beast]

Can someone get a stat on how many qbs have been drafted in the first round? And what percentage of them went on to win a superbowl?

 

[Justis]

It is fine and dandy to look at the succesful players drafted in round 1. But why don't you look at the flops too?

We have Henson, he is our future qb, deal with it.

We're a couple catalytic players away from being the best team in the nfl. We don't waste a first rounder on a quarterback.

There is no QB of the future, there is Bledsoe, and that's all we know. I think pinning the franchise on any player is the first mistake a team can make. This is a team sport, and there is no golden boy who can make it all better. I honestly would like to pick up good veteran's until the new collective bargaining agreement starts that will reduce rookie salaries.

 

[jterrell]

JT, you're too smart to be that naive as to think that someone can't take stats and skew them. It happens all the time.

Of course they can bro but it usually takes about 2 ounces of common sense to prove why they were playing lose and fast using their own stats as a basis for the argument.

See what happens when folks argue with Adamjt's stats as an example.

 

[Hiero]

It is fine and dandy to look at the succesful players drafted in round 1. But why don't you look at the flops too?

We have Henson, he is our future qb, deal with it.

We're a couple catalytic players away from being the best team in the nfl. We don't waste a first rounder on a quarterback.

wow we beat the chargers and 49ers and now were a couple players away from being the best team in the league? wow. How do we know Henson is anything? He hasnt even shown any flashes, the guy has to show something good to keep him around forever, without bringing in any competition. He hasnt been Volek where he rides the pine, but has had some actual good statistical games. Henson hasnt shown a damn thing, and you want to risk the future of the dallas cowboys on this guy?

 

[jterrell]

Can someone get a stat on how many qbs have been drafted in the first round? And what percentage of them went on to win a superbowl?

Since 1990 37 QBs have been taken in round 1. Of those 37 5 have been to a single Super Bowl if my math is correct. NONE have been to more than 1. NONE. And of those 5 they have 1 Super Bowl win(on a team possessing whats considered a top 3 all time defense) I believe. That makes the last 1st rounder to go to multiple super bowls and earn more than a single win----- Troy Aikman.


Year No. Round Pick Player Name Team College
2005 1 1 1 1 Alex D. Smith 49ers Utah
2 1 24 24 Aaron Rodgers Packers California
3 1 25 25 Jason Campbell Commanders Auburn

2004 1 1 1 1 Eli Manning Chargers Mississippi
2 1 4 4 Philip Rivers Giants North Carolina State
3 1 11 11 Ben Roethlisberger Steelers Miami (OH)
4 1 22 22 J.P. Losman Bills Tulane

2003 1 1 1 1 Carson Palmer Bengals USC
2 1 7 7 Byron Leftwich Jaguars Marshall
3 1 19 19 Kyle Boller Ravens California
4 1 22 22 Rex Grossman Bears Florida

2002 1 1 1 1 David Carr Texans Fresno State
2 1 3 3 Joey Harrington Lions Oregon
3 1 32 32 Patrick Ramsey Commanders Tulane

2001 1 1 1 1 Michael Vick Falcons Virginia Tech

2000 1 1 18 18 Chad Pennington Jets Marshall

1999 1 1 1 1 Tim Couch Browns Kentucky
2 1 2 2 Donovan McNabb Eagles Syracuse
3 1 3 3 Akili Smith Bengals Oregon
4 1 11 11 Daunte Culpepper Vikings Central Florida
5 1 12 12 Cade McNown Bears UCLA

1998 1 1 1 1 Peyton Manning Colts Tennessee
2 1 2 2 Ryan Leaf Chargers Washington State

1997 1 1 26 26 Jim Druckenmiller 49ers Virginia Tech
1996

1995 1 1 3 3 Steve McNair Oilers Alcorn State
2 1 5 5 Kerry Collins Panthers Penn State

1994 1 1 3 3 Heath Shuler Commanders Tennessee
2 1 6 6 Trent Dilfer Buccaneers Fresno State

1993 1 1 1 1 Drew Bledsoe Patriots Washington State
2 1 2 2 Rick Mirer Seahawks Notre Dame

1992s 1 1 0 0 Dave Brown Giants Duke
1992 1 1 6 6 David Klingler Bengals Houston
2 1 25 25 Tommy Maddox Broncos UCLA

1991 1 1 16 16 Dan McGwire Seahawks San Diego State
2 1 24 24 Todd Marinovich Raiders USC

1990 1 1 1 1 Jeff George Colts Illinois
2 1 7 7 Andre Ware Lions Houston

 

[Hiero]

wow after seeing chris leak for the first time live, the guy seems absolutely freakin clueless. not only has he been horribly inaccurate, he threw a 5 yard pass to the middle TWICE with 40 seconds left in the half one of which should have been an INT. Will definitely be a later round pick.

 

[Teague31]

no way we draft a QB in round 1 next year- bledsoe is good for another 2 years after this one. We have more pressing needs... FS, LB, DT, WR, FB.

 

[gbrittain]

Stick with current SB Champs.

YAWN

It's not about the qb.....

Uh...Ok.

Brady may have been a 6th round pick but he #1 or #2 QB in the league without question.

 

[gbrittain]

Who was their QB KID?

Uh it wasn't a HOF'er.

Brady a first rounder son? UH NO.

Rams QB? HOF'er? NO.

Bring it if you have it....but don't sweat me with no facts...

How is this for facts.

7 out of the last 8 #1 picks in the NFL draft have been...drum roll...you guessed it QBs.

BTW after Leinart gets drafted #1 overall next year, you can make that 8 out of the last 9 overall #1 picks being a QB.

Mind you, we are not talking about fantasy football here. These are real GMs that year after year after year keep searching for that elite #1 QB.

Why you must ask? Well, because a GM knows if they can nail that spot down there chances of being a perrenial contender are really good.

 

[Paniolo22]

Who are you talking about being 5'11"? You were responding to a post about Vince Young (the one from Texas I assume) and he is 6'5" not 5'11".

Vince Young #10
Height: 6-5
Weight: 233
Class: Jr.-2L
Hometown: Houston, TX (Madison)

Not that I am particularly enamored with him personally but he does have a cannon for an arm and he has the prototype size. I think he does depend on his own playmaking ability in running the ball too much and I have seen him throw some passes that were way off the mark. But size is NOT a problem with him.

Was discussing Marcus Vick, not Young. Thanks for the info though

 

[Paniolo22]

In the first round????

What are you smoking?

Keep reading the post Sarge, I was looking 3rd or 4th round. Thanks though, the Hawaii smokes are prime!!!