No HOF Presentation for TO

[OmerV]

I never said that wanting respect meant that you were pretending. I was saying people shouldn't pretend just to get respect, regardless of whether or not they want it. I still have no idea where the "then he must not be a good football player" thing came in.



You are trying to mix all types of respect into one thing, and not focusing on the type of respect that was in the context of the conversation. Maybe that is my fault for not being clear that I was being specific to this discussion.

You state things as if they are absolutes, when they are categorically not. You must think everyone thinks and feels the way that you do. That's just not the way it is. Sorry to burst your bubble.

What "value" does TO get from having the respect of a few people who he most likely never interacts with and may never see again in his life? What kind of respect do these people have for him anyway? Do they respect him for the person he is? Likely not as they probably don't even really know him very well. How much is their respect worth (even if you care so much about it) if they are the type of people that would so easily lose respect for someone over something like this?

So, again, what is the value?

This is what you said .....

Wanting to be respected...by definition is a concern about what people think of you. You shouldn't try and change who you are to get friends.

So, in fact, your idea of a person wanting to be respected is that a person has to change who they are to get it.

It's BS. Respect comes from actually doing a good job, or actually being a good person, or actually being conscientious or capable or honorable or skilled, or whatever it is a person may be respected for. You think of it as artificial, and that's contrary to what respect is.

I laugh at you talking about TO in this context, as if he sees no value in getting the respect of the HOF voters, when the reality is that his whole beef with the HOF and the voters is that he was disrespected. The reality is, if he feels it's important to him to get that respect, then you have no business telling him otherwise. The same applies to all people.

But I suppose you don't care if your kids respect your integrity as a father, or if your boss respects the quality of your work, or if in whatever activities you have ever been involved in through your life your peers or adversaries respected your talent and accomplishments ....

Frankly, the only people I have every heard that said respect doesn't matter are people who don't accomplish things and don't have strong relationships - people who are making an excuse. Respect and pride go hand in hand. How much pride can a person have if everyone thinks they are dishonest or a clown or if they have never accomplished anything notable?

 

[Big_D]

He might be anazz but he should've been a first ballot. The guy was a great WR. But with him pulling a no show his bust might be there but he never will. He's basically forfeiting his right to go sit there on induction day with his yellow jacket among the rest of them. This whole situation is a joke and that includes the petty morons who get to cast their votes in the first place.

 

[OmerV]

He might be anazz but he should've been a first ballot. The guy was a great WR. But with him pulling a no show his bust might be there but he never will. He's basically forfeiting his right to go sit there on induction day with his yellow jacket among the rest of them. This whole situation is a joke and that includes the petty morons who get to cast their votes in the first place.

I don't disagree that he should have been first ballot, although I don't necessarily believe how a person acts shouldn't be a factor. It's just that in his case the on field performance is too overwhelming. Still, it is a voting process, and it's people doing the voting, so there is a human element, and personal perceptions will factor in, so it wasn't a surprise to me that some voters chose not to vote for him on the first ballot. If it was a surprise to TO then he is living in a fantasy world.

 

[Big_D]

I don't disagree that he should have been first ballot, although I don't necessarily believe how a person acts shouldn't be a factor. It's just that in his case the on field performance is too overwhelming. Still, it is a voting process, and it's people doing the voting, so there is a human element, and personal perceptions will factor in, so it wasn't a surprise to me that some voters chose not to vote for him on the first ballot. If it was a surprise to TO then he is living in a fantasy world.

This is about your accomplishments on the football field. There are plenty of halfwits in their already whose off the field issues weren't a problem when it came time to vote. And I know T.O. isn't the most well liked guy but jeez in comparison to some of them. Which means that 'human element' of the vote has become a joke.

 

[OmerV]

This is about your accomplishments on the football field. There are plenty of halfwits in their already whose off the field issues weren't a problem when it came time to vote. And I know T.O. isn't the most well liked guy but jeez in comparison to some of them. Which means that 'human element' of the vote has become a joke.

With TO it's not really off the field issues, it's locker room issues, and relationships with teammates and coaches, and the perception that he made things more difficult for his teams.

And frankly it's silly to suggest that even off the field issues don't matter. Do you really think OJ would be in if the murder case and trial had taken place before his induction? And before you claim I am putting TO in the same category as an accused murderer, I am not. I am merely pointing out the HOF isn't based purely on game time performance.

The problem with TO isn't necessarily that his issues were notably worse than others, but that he never did anything that helped change the perception. We talked about Moss last week and how some of his locker room and team issues were similar to TO. I think what helped Moss is that he stayed in the public eye, and in a positive way - lighthearted commercials, and working at Fox and ESPN where he came across as a decent and likeable guy. With TO after retirement he was rarely seen except when he was complaining that teams didn't give him a chance to continue his career or to talk about former teams and teammates - nothing that would project a different image than the negative one he had.

 

[Kevinicus]

This is what you said .....

Wanting to be respected...by definition is a concern about what people think of you. You shouldn't try and change who you are to get friends.

So, in fact, your idea of a person wanting to be respected is that a person has to change who they are to get it.

What? Wanting respect does not mean you have to change who you are to get it. I don't know how you make this leap. You can want respect and still stay true to who you are. That's not what I am saying. There is no pleasing everyone and getting respect from everyone. It's not possible, no matter what. It simply means don't go CHASING respect. Don't be untrue to yourself to get it. If you do, then it's not real respect as it's based on a lie.

It's BS. Respect comes from actually doing a good job, or actually being a good person, or actually being conscientious or capable or honorable or skilled, or whatever it is a person may be respected for. You think of it as artificial, and that's contrary to what respect is.

Respect ****OF DIFFERENT TYPES**** can come from different things.

I laugh at you talking about TO in this context, as if he sees no value in getting the respect of the HOF voters, when the reality is that his whole beef with the HOF and the voters is that he was disrespected. The reality is, if he feels it's important to him to get that respect, then you have no business telling him otherwise. The same applies to all people.

I don't know what value TO sees in anything. I'm not TO. Neither are you. But it was the post I responded to that was making it out as if TO wanted the respect of those guys on stage. Maybe he does, I don't know, but if it was important to him, then don't you think he might be doing something else...unless that means the rest of what you said is based on faulty assumption? Can you show me some verifiable proof that he has a "beef?" Do you have some quotes from him saying he is getting back at them for some perceived grievance, or are you assuming?

But I suppose you don't care if your kids respect your integrity as a father, or if your boss respects the quality of your work, or if in whatever activities you have ever been involved in through your life your peers or adversaries respected your talent and accomplishments ....

Do I care if my peers or adversaries respect my talent and accomplishments? No. My boss the quality of my work? Sure, but again, you're not getting the different types of respect thing. As for my kids, I want them to respect me so that they will listen to me and learn, not because the respect itself carries some value to me. But again, you're lumping all respect together and not respect in the context of TO and this discussion.

Frankly, the only people I have every heard that said respect doesn't matter are people who don't accomplish things and don't have strong relationships - people who are making an excuse. Respect and pride go hand in hand. How much pride can a person have if everyone thinks they are dishonest or a clown or if they have never accomplished anything notable?

Pride is a sin and leads to all sorts of bad things. I want nothing to do with pride, thank you. I will go with humility.

 

[TheCount]

And yet you are ranting about the fact he won't get his jacket until the day after the attendees get theirs.

You want your jacket when the others get it? Show up.

lol, am I the one ranting?

Who are you even talking to? Do you think TO reads this forum?

All I said was The Hall should rise above the pettiness. They are building an NFL pantheon, but going tic for tac with one guy because he chooses not to attend. Like anyone 100 years from now will care that he chose to be elsewhere.

 

[OmerV]

What? Wanting respect does not mean you have to change who you are to get it. I don't know how you make this leap. You can want respect and still stay true to who you are. That's not what I am saying. There is no pleasing everyone and getting respect from everyone. It's not possible, no matter what. It simply means don't go CHASING respect. Don't be untrue to yourself to get it. If you do, then it's not real respect as it's based on a lie.



Respect ****OF DIFFERENT TYPES**** can come from different things.


I don't know what value TO sees in anything. I'm not TO. Neither are you. But it was the post I responded to that was making it out as if TO wanted the respect of those guys on stage. Maybe he does, I don't know, but if it was important to him, then don't you think he might be doing something else...unless that means the rest of what you said is based on faulty assumption? Can you show me some verifiable proof that he has a "beef?" Do you have some quotes from him saying he is getting back at them for some perceived grievance, or are you assuming?


Do I care if my peers or adversaries respect my talent and accomplishments? No. My boss the quality of my work? Sure, but again, you're not getting the different types of respect thing. As for my kids, I want them to respect me so that they will listen to me and learn, not because the respect itself carries some value to me. But again, you're lumping all respect together and not respect in the context of TO and this discussion.



Pride is a sin and leads to all sorts of bad things. I want nothing to do with pride, thank you. I will go with humility.

Of course you can get respect and stay true to who you are. That was always my positio,, but you are the one that indicated wanting respect means changing who you are to get it. I didn't bring that idea into the discussion you did.

As for pleasing everyone and getting respect from everyone, you are desperately grasping for an argument with that, because I never suggested anything of the sort. As for the idea of "chasing respect", again that's something you made up that has nothing to do with what I said. You are simply fabricating an arguments that don't fit with what was written.

Sure there are different types of respect, but you didn't distinguish between them when you said respect means nothing.

Even so, you still are screwed up on the meaning of the word. You have this goofy notion that people can value your work or accomplishments without having any respect for your work or accomplishments. It's a nonsense argument. If a person has no respect for what you do they don't value it. You don't value a person you have no respect for.

 

[Dre11]

It will only mean the same to him, not to all of the other members he's disrespecting by not showing up for the honor he's whined about not getting last year. He whined to anyone and everyone about not getting in the HOF in 2017 and now stupid boy gets voted in and he's to stupid and disrespectful to go. He's a sorry excuse for a human.
.

It looks like you're worse to be overblowing, he's a sorry excuse for a human because he won't do what you want or think he should do...lol think about what you said. He's disrespecting nobody, he's just choosing to do his speech at a different place.

 

[Dre11]

Finally last week I heard on the radio someone take a closer look at things and say that all those numbers he piled up he did over SEVENTEEN years. This guy said that whiny boy is getting into the HOF basically because he played for 17 years even though he never lead the league in catches in any of those years. But what he did do 3 times is lead the league is drops. I also remember an incident where whiny boy literally spit in the face of a defender and then even admitted it after the game. If I remember right it was against the falcons.
.

Yet there's racist in the Hof, I never heard you question that, Ray Lewis a obstructing justice, Irvin slitting his teammate's neck with scissors. Where's your outrage to that. Also sounds like you're the whiny boy who's whining about him not showing up....lol

 

[Kevinicus]

Of course you can get respect and stay true to who you are. That was always my positio,, but you are the one that indicated wanting respect means changing who you are to get it. I didn't bring that idea into the discussion you did.

As for pleasing everyone and getting respect from everyone, you are desperately grasping for an argument with that, because I never suggested anything of the sort. As for the idea of "chasing respect", again that's something you made up that has nothing to do with what I said. You are simply fabricating an arguments that don't fit with what was written.

Sure there are different types of respect, but you didn't distinguish between them when you said respect means nothing.

Even so, you still are screwed up on the meaning of the word. You have this goofy notion that people can value your work or accomplishments without having any respect for your work or accomplishments. It's a nonsense argument. If a person has no respect for what you do they don't value it. You don't value a person you have no respect for.

I did not suggest *wanting* respect meant you had yo change who you are. False.

I did not suggest you did say you had to please everyone. I was making a point.

You are trying to read into my comments that I said you said things.

I already said a while ago I should have been more clear and have for several posts made it very clear. If you are still behind, that's on you.

And no, I am not confused. I made the distinction between the different types, but you haven't kept up.

 

[gjkoeppen]

Yet there's racist in the Hof, I never heard you question that, Ray Lewis a obstructing justice, Irvin slitting his teammate's neck with scissors. Where's your outrage to that. Also sounds like you're the whiny boy who's whining about him not showing up....lol

First off nobody but you is making a big deal about Lewis. I don't hear any national radio or TV talking heads make any comments about Lewis but whiny boy gets airtime for, YES, disrespecting members already in the HOF, the process of getting into the HOF and his immature decision not to attend the same thing he's whined about for over a year to anyone and everyone. The governing board of the HOF has said they will announce whiny boys name with the other players present to be enshrined and that's it. Frankly that's more than he deserves. If he doesn't want to show up than they should just omit his name being even mentioned, not have his bust on stage and just shove the thing in the HOL without any mention of him. In the description below each bust where they have some info they should but that whiny boy didn't show up to be enshrined. Lastly Irvin is already in the HOF and again only you are bringing up Irvin. I see it's your job to bring up a extremely tiny percentage of players in the HOF that did something wrong as your basis for support of whiny boy. Your logic is 2 or 3 wrongs make a right which everyone knows is 2 wrongs DON'T make it right.
.

 

[Dre11]

First off nobody but you is making a big deal about Lewis. I don't hear any national radio or TV talking heads make any comments about Lewis but whiny boy gets airtime for, YES, disrespecting members already in the HOF, the process of getting into the HOF and his immature decision not to attend the same thing he's whined about for over a year to anyone and everyone. The governing board of the HOF has said they will announce whiny boys name with the other players present to be enshrined and that's it. Frankly that's more than he deserves. If he doesn't want to show up than they should just omit his name being even mentioned, not have his bust on stage and just shove the thing in the HOL without any mention of him. In the description below each bust where they have some info they should but that whiny boy didn't show up to be enshrined. Lastly Irvin is already in the HOF and again only you are bringing up Irvin. I see it's your job to bring up a extremely tiny percentage of players in the HOF that did something wrong as your basis for support of whiny boy. Your logic is 2 or 3 wrongs make a right which everyone knows is 2 wrongs DON'T make it right.
.

i see you're still crying about T.O . Yet you call him a whiny boy? Pot calling the kettle black much...lol

You right I brought those up, it shows how backwards your thinking is. You got your drawls twisted because he's skipping the HOF, then call him a terrible human for it? For a sports award? Where's your priorities?..lol
Yet you have criminals and racist that you think he should respect. Get out of here with that lame Bs.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

Finally last week I heard on the radio someone take a closer look at things and say that all those numbers he piled up he did over SEVENTEEN years. This guy said that whiny boy is getting into the HOF basically because he played for 17 years even though he never lead the league in catches in any of those years. But what he did do 3 times is lead the league is drops. I also remember an incident where whiny boy literally spit in the face of a defender and then even admitted it after the game. If I remember right it was against the falcons.
.

You're reaching......big-time
I'm no banner carrying TO fan but I call it like I see and stay as close to facts as possible.

He played 15 years in NFL NOT 17........
His NFL records below ends any discussion whether or not he's HOFR worthy on the field IMO. If character was the threshold for choosing HOFer, over half would have never made it.
NFL records

• • Only player in NFL history to score a TD against all 32 NFL teams
  • Only player in NFL history to score two or more touchdowns against all 32 NFL teams
  • Only player in NFL history to have an 800-yard receiving season with 5 different teams (Cincinnati Bengals, Buffalo Bills, Dallas Cowboys, Philadelphia Eagles, San Francisco 49ers)
  • Only player in NFL history to have a 150-yard receiving game with 5 different teams (Bengals, Bills, Cowboys, Eagles, 49ers)
  • Only player in NFL history to have a 200-yard receiving game with 3 different teams (Bengals, Cowboys, 49ers)
  • Oldest player to accumulate 200 combined yards/receiving yards/yards from scrimmage in a single game (36 years, 300 days)
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 6 touchdowns, 2000–2010 (11) – tied with Marvin Harrison 1996–2006, Jerry Rice 1986–1996, Don Hutson 1935–1945
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdown receptions, 2000–2010 (11) – tied with Marvin Harrison 1996–2006, Cris Carter 1991–2001, Tim Brown 1991–2001, Rice 1986–1996, Don Hutson 1935–1945
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 5 touchdowns, 2000–2010 (11) – tied with Frank Gore 2006-2016, Marvin Harrison 1996–2006, Cris Carter 1991–2001, Tim Brown 1991–2001, Rice 1986–1996, Don Hutson 1935–1945
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdown receptions, 1996–2010 (15)
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 4 touchdowns, 1996–2010 (15)
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdown receptions, 1996–2010 (15)
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 3 touchdowns, 1996–2010 (15)
  • Consecutive seasons with at least 700 receiving yards/yards from scrimmage/combined yards 1996–2010 (15) - tied with Tony Gonzalez, 1999-2013
  • One of seven players to have at least 2 receptions of 90+ yards (John Taylor, Mike Quick, Gaynell Tinsley, Steve Watson, Willard Dewveall, and Mike Wallace)
  • One of 12 players to have at least 2 offensive TDs of 90+ yards

49ers franchise records

• • Most receptions in a single game: 20 (12/17/00 vs Chicago Bears) (Week 15)[89]
  • Most receiving yards on a Sunday game: 283 (12/17/00 vs Bears) (Week 15)[89]

Eagles franchise records

• • Most receiving touchdowns in a single season: 14 (2004)[90]
  • Most receiving yards per game, season: 109.0 (2005) 763 in 7 games.

Cowboys franchise records

• • Most consecutive games with a receiving touchdown: 7 (2007). Record shared with Franklin Clarke (1961–1962), Bob Hayes (1965–1966) and Dez Bryant (2012)[91]
  • Most touchdown receptions in a single game: 4 (11/18/07 vs Washington Commanders). Record shared with Bob Hayes (12/20/70)
  • Most receiving yards per game, career: 76.3 (2006–2008)

Bills franchise records

• • Longest reception: 98 yard TD (11/22/09 vs Jacksonville Jaguars) (Week 11)[92]
  • Longest play from scrimmage: 98 yard TD reception (11/22/09 vs Jaguars) (Week 11)[92]

Bengals franchise records

• • Most combined yards/receiving yards/yards from scrimmage in a single game by a player over age 30: 222 (10/3/10 vs Cleveland Browns) (Week 4

 

[hornitosmonster]

Still a diva after all these years . He is going to miss out on a special moment that only a few ever get to experience

 

[Hawkeye0202]

This pretty much reflects my feelings on this.......why would a 55-year-old institution let one member change its protocol. To me it a slap in the face of other 310 members that they would let one disgruntled member change history. Would they do the same thing for a member suddenly hospitalized and unable to attend the ceremony? It kinda falls in the face of childish play, you hit me, I'll hit you back. Bottom line to me, as a well-established institution, rich with tradition and history, you rise above TO pettiness and not change a thing on the ceremony. In fact, you can make a case they've already attention away from the other members with the announcement, not to honor TO.


https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/07/15/aaron-rodgers-contract-sharks-peter-king-fmia/
10 Things I Think I Think

1. I think I do not like the decision of the Pro Football Hall of Fame, at all, to not announce Terrell Owens when the induction ceremonies are held Aug. 4. (Full disclosure: I am one of 48 voters for the Hall of Fame.) Owens, angry that he had to wait till year three of his eligibility to be inducted, has decided not to attend the ceremonies in Canton; he will have a ceremony of his own that day in Chattanooga, where he went to college. Hall of Fame executive director Joe Horrigan told Clark Judge of Talk of Fame Network that the Hall will keep the focus of the enshrinement “on the guys who are there.” Owens earned his spot in the Hall, and whether he’s there or not, he should be treated the same way in the public pronouncements as anyone else who was voted in. I have great respect for Horrigan—he is the most respected and respectful keeper of the flame I know—and the Hall, but dissing Owens looks petty and needlessly tit-for-tat.

 

[Bleu Star]

http://www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/negotiating-football-comeback-cfl-team

My man...