Not gonna be popular... trade Roy and Julius for #2

[vicjagger]

Everyone says trade roy yet they fail to realize he was just signed to an extension and practices like that is no better than having Deions's contract still on the books. Why put the team in cap hell when you have a player that is servicable at worse and a stud at best. But like someon pointed out earlier I guess it worked in Madden Ohhh-Six

Perhaps they realize that when you trade a player you are trading the contract and the salary cap implications. The cap hit acceleration only occurs when a player is cut.

See Da Bears/Commanders/Adam Archuleta for a recent example.

 

[junk]

Statistics?!?!?!

http://i32.***BLOCKED***/albums/d2/superpunk2884/onoz.gif

We need to find these people using statistics and toss them out on their *****. There's no room for that kind of misplaced factual rationale here. Personally, I'd rather go with how I feel about a player. For instance, I feel that Mark Rypien was one of the finest LBs to ever play the game.

Completely false, you say?

I don't care. And don't bother showing me any stats that show that Mark Rypien never actually played LB. There is no room for that here.

:laugh2:

Statistics definitely have a place. However, they can also be manipulated, made up or portrayed in a light that supports your stance.

You "presented" a few statistics you borrowed from another poster that couldn't be verified. In addition, they are statistics (such as pass % completed against) that couldn't possibly be accurate unless assembled by the coaching staff. Wherever they came from, it wasn't there. Meanwhile, things like TDs allowed were conveniently ignored.

Heck, a team employee came out today and said Roy played poor at the end of the year, but people still get bent out of shape if anyone dares to say that.

Why shouldn't I expect more out of the guy? I'm not going to blindly defend him just because he is Roy Williams. He had some struggles last year. A continuation of the struggles he has had for the last couple.

I hope Phillips can find a way to scheme around him to bring out his talents. However, I find it disturbing that a supposed "franchise defensive player" and a guy who is above reproach around here has to be schemed up and need a bona fide stud next to him at FS to make him reach his potential.

 

[thor_01]

Amen!

 

[superpunk]

Statistics definitely have a place. However, they can also be manipulated, made up or portrayed in a light that supports your stance.

Which they weren't. If I find anyone doing that, I'll punch them in the nose.

Figuratively, of course.

You "presented" a few statistics you borrowed from another poster that couldn't be verified. In addition, they are statistics (such as pass % completed against) that couldn't possibly be accurate unless assembled by the coaching staff.

In such a case, the relative nature of the stats, since they were used in a comparative sense, is really all that matters, so long as the same criteria is applied to all subjects. That's pretty simple logic, I'm sure you understand it.

Wherever they came from, it wasn't there. Meanwhile, things like TDs allowed were conveniently ignored.

Unfortunately that's a lie.

Heck, a team employee came out today and said Roy played poor at the end of the year, but people still get bent out of shape if anyone dares to say that.

OMG, I totally said the same thing! LOLerz...me and this team employee think alot alike.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Uh, yes they have. Repeatedly. They've even tried to put together some sort of statistics to prove that he hasn't struggled.

I think they brought out the stats to compare Roy with the league's other safeties

Athletic TEs have frequently provided serious issues for Roy. I'd actually argue that Roy is better in a Cover 2 than some of the other schemes because it allows him to move forward and make a play on the ball as opposed to having to turn his hips and run with a player, where he struggles.

dude, athletic TEs give any S trouble, have you seen any safety shut down Tony G, Shockey, Witten and that San Diego TE straight up?

 

[junk]

In such a case, the relative nature of the stats, since they were used in a comparative sense, is really all that matters, so long as the same criteria is applied to all subjects. That's pretty simple logic, I'm sure you understand it.

I understand flawed logic when I see it.....which this is.

A casual observer on his couch....or some random dude from STATS, Inc....or HAL2000.....whoever or whatever is generating these particular "stats" has no foundation to base them off of.

Without a working knowledge of the scheme and coverage being run, how can you accurately assign a passes completed against % accurately? Answer: You can't.

It doesn't take into effect other factors involved in the passing game. There are too many other dynamics that makes it border line impossible to boil it into a black and white statistic that has any validity.

Unfortunately that's a lie.

Ignored, dismissed, understated....whatever. What percentage of the team's total TDs was Roy responsible for?

OMG, I totally said the same thing! LOLerz...me and this team employee think alot alike.

:laugh2:

You like to claim this, but you're the first one trotting out a sarcastic reply anytime someone criticizes Roy.

 

[superpunk]

I understand flawed logic when I see it.....which this is.

A casual observer on his couch....or some random dude from STATS, Inc....or HAL2000.....whoever or whatever is generating these particular "stats" has no foundation to base them off of.

Without a working knowledge of the scheme and coverage being run, how can you accurately assign a passes completed against % accurately? Answer: You can't.

It doesn't take into effect other factors involved in the passing game. There are too many other dynamics that makes it border line impossible to boil it into a black and white statistic that has any validity.

Here I thought it was simple logic. It may be more advanced than I first thought.

Maybe you can wrap your head around it this way - if they skew the stats for Roy, they're skewing it equally for all players, and so any flaw for one is applied to all - thus in a comparative sense, the flaw is moot.

Considering we were using it comparatively, and that other sites such as KC Joyner and Football Outsiders come up withr emarkably similar numbers, the statistics are valid on a comparative basis.

Now, I understand fully that you will continue to dismiss them, and attack them as invalid. Because, to do otherwise would be DEVASTATING to your notion. And that's fine, if that's how you want to play it. Just don't pretend that that is the reasonable course.

You like to claim this, but you're the first one trotting out a sarcastic reply anytime someone criticizes Roy.

It's the truth.

If you'd ever pay attention rather than sticking your head in the sand, you might have noticed me saying that exact thing, directly to you. His play dropped off at season's end. That is fact. Even so, he still rivaled the best in the league.

THAT is how good he is.

Shocking. I know.

 

[BigDFan5]

Perhaps they realize that when you trade a player you are trading the contract and the salary cap implications. The cap hit acceleration only occurs when a player is cut.

See Da Bears/Commanders/Adam Archuleta for a recent example.

Anyone who realizes that is wrong. You do not trade away salary cap implications when you trade a player. See Commanders taking a 4 million dollar cap hit for Archuletta for a recent example

 

[Bob Sacamano]

It doesn't take into effect other factors involved in the passing game. There are too many other dynamics that makes it border line impossible to boil it into a black and white statistic that has any validity.

there are other factors involved in a safety's play too

such as a pass-rush

 

[superpunk]

I thought of an analogy, to help you understand how the data is valuable, comparatively.

Let's say you are grading a test. The answer to problem 4 is 3, but you think it is 2 - so you mark it wrong for all students. That affects the final grade, and so it's wrong, but it's wrong for everyone. So, if you are using the grades simply to compare students, and the same error is applied to all of them, it becomes irrelevent.

Same thing with those stats.

but like I said, I'm sure there will just be more discrediting of the stats, even though NFL teams pay to use them, and have offered testimonials. It's not the greatest stance, but at least it's a stance, right?

 

[5Stars]

I thought of an analogy, to help you understand how the data is valuable, comparatively.

Let's say you are grading a test. The answer to problem 4 is 3, but you think it is 2 - so you mark it wrong for all students. That affects the final grade, and so it's wrong, but it's wrong for everyone. So, if you are using the grades simply to compare students, and the same error is applied to all of them, it becomes irrelevent.

Same thing with those stats.

but like I said, I'm sure there will just be more discrediting of the stats, even though NFL teams pay to use them, and have offered testimonials. It's not the greatest stance, but at least it's a stance, right?

Why did they let someone that don't know the answer, grade the papers?

Sounds pretty foolish to me!

:laugh2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I thought of an analogy, to help you understand how the data is valuable, comparatively.

Let's say you are grading a test. The answer to problem 4 is 3, but you think it is 2 - so you mark it wrong for all students. That affects the final grade, and so it's wrong, but it's wrong for everyone. So, if you are using the grades simply to compare students, and the same error is applied to all of them, it becomes irrelevent.

Same thing with those stats.

but like I said, I'm sure there will just be more discrediting of the stats, even though NFL teams pay to use them, and have offered testimonials. It's not the greatest stance, but at least it's a stance, right?

so you're talking about teachers grading on a curve???

 

[superpunk]

so you're talking about teachers grading on a curve???

no.

IT'S THE SAME LOOK! I FEEL LIKE I'M TAKING CRAZY PILLS!

 

[dargonking999]

Well to make this whole thread mute, a team with two top RB's, is not gonna wanna trade for a third, when they get other offers, better offers from other teams. Even if Roy came with it.

And if Dallas made that trade they would be messing there ownselves up, because you take away two faces on both sides of the ball for one pick. Its not worth it

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I HATE STaTS!

 

[Doctor32]

But for my money, now that I know the lions want to trade that number 2 pick badly, I would package Julius Jones and Roy Williams and come away with the number 2 pick, thus having the number 2 and the number 22 in the first round..............

Then using the number 2 I would trade back for more picks to where I was sure I could comfortably get Laron Landry to replace RW, eliminating my safety problems..........

Then utilize what extra picks I had gotten to do what was necessary to also bag Lynch or one of the other top backs like Bush to replace JJ, then laugh all the way to the Super Bowl, having upgraded my team by leaps and bounds and still not having given away my draft this year to do it,........................

Not a sound General Managing move. That sounds like Monoply - The NFL Version or any given Fantasy Football Trade (if you could move Defensive players). Let's be realistic here. 2 Established, Young NFL talents - 1 a perennial Pro Bowl player - in exchange for 1 1st round draft pick. The risk reward ratio is so far out of whack that I just forgot why I'm even replying to this GARBAGE POST. Please kill this ridiculous thread.

ROY WILLIAMS #31 Dallas Cowboys Stud

 

[5Stars]

I HATE STaTS!

At the University I attended, we always refered to Statistics as Sadistics...

They have their purpose, but, they are easily manipulated to convey the wrong message. There is nothing that is really static when it comes to breaking out a Stat. If it were possible to input every single "correct" parameter about two subjects, it would take a Gray computer a few hours to figure out what is right or wrong!

Try obtaining correct stats on every player on every NFL team, and all the correct parameters or variables for, let's say a sample of a few years, and try and come to a correct, logical conclusion! Variables being the operative word...

Good luck!

 

[dargonking999]

At the University I attended, we always refered to Statistics as Sadistics...

They have their purpose, but, they are easily manipulated to convey the wrong message. There is nothing that is really static when it comes to breaking out a Stat. If it were possible to input every single "correct" parameter about two subjects, it would take a Gray computer a few hours to figure out what is right or wrong!

Try obtaining correct stats on every player on every NFL team, and all the correct parameters or variables for, let's say a sample of a few years, and try and come to a correct, logical conclusion! Variables being the operative word...

Good luck!

well my brain started hurting after unveristy, so imma let you go ahead and work on that, and you can tell me how it turns out

 

[5Stars]

well my brain started hurting after unveristy, so imma let you go ahead and work on that, and you can tell me how it turns out

Not me! I'm just an average idiot...!

Writing computer programs there is a saying;

Garbage in = garbage out

 

[Rampage]

why is this thread still alive?