Office Debate I had (stud DE or stud RB)

[kartr]

If you are talking superstars, a guy like Payton or Emmitt or any franchise QB, or even Jerry Rice, is worth more than any top DL...period. It's not even up for discussion. A guy like Reggie White or Charles Haley, who puts pressure on QB's and makes sacks is the guy who gets you over the final hurdle of being a champion...but they can't make it happen. Guys like Aikman and Emmitt are worth far more than any DE.

It's far easier to judge who will be a franchise rb or qb than who will become a franchise DE, like Freeney or Strahan or Umenyiora. Remember, Detroit drated Kalimba Edwards as a Freeney-type, how well did that go.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

This discussion really revolves around the question of each player's value. Is Bush a once in a life time player? Will Williams become another Reggie White?

If I had the chance to take Emmitt or Reggie White, I'd take White and never look back. If Bush is another Faulk and Williams is another Reggie White, I'd take Williams. On the other hand, Williams might be another Courtny Brown. You don't know what either is going to be yet. They've played two games and as of now, you don't know what either is going to be.

 

[Cochese]

DE's are entirely more valuable. The Broncos have shown that you can win with any kind of stiff you pick up off the streets if your blocking and schemes are good enough.

 

[kartr]

I think it isn't as cut and dried as DE vs. RB though Mick. The Texans also needed to get the fans excited again.

Reggie Bush was the most exciting player in the Draft. IMO they blew it and not because Dominick Davis got hurt. They had 2 better options to them than Mario Williams.

1. Draft Bush.

2. Trade down and stockpile picks.

Any time you pass on the player everyone has as the consensus overall #1 the player you take instead can't miss. In other words, he better be just as dynamic and in this case, a DE just isn't.

You can't control whether someone will trade with you or not, so you should eliminate number 2 and add picking Vince Young, the hometown guy as the second option. Vince would make their offensive line better and will surpass anything David Carr has done to date. Vince didn't have a receiver anywhere close to being as good as Andre Johnson at Texas. Vince is a lot closer to being John Elway than Carr will ever be.

 

[Ashwynn]

Franchise RBs are a lot harder to come by then a franchise DE or DT.

 

[Doomsday101]

Franchise RBs are a lot harder to come by then a franchise DE or DT.

I agree. I think all position on a team are of great value but I have seen too many great backs come in and turn franchises around. I'm not going to sit here and say DE are not important but I'll take the great RB over the DE any day of the week.

 

[baj1dallas]

If you are talking superstars, a guy like Payton or Emmitt or any franchise QB, or even Jerry Rice, is worth more than any top DL...period. It's not even up for discussion. A guy like Reggie White or Charles Haley, who puts pressure on QB's and makes sacks is the guy who gets you over the final hurdle of being a champion...but they can't make it happen. Guys like Aikman and Emmitt are worth far more than any DE.

I disagree. Julius Peppers has gotten Carolina further than Peyton Manning's gotten Indy.

 

[joseephuss]

I disagree. Julius Peppers has gotten Carolina further than Peyton Manning's gotten Indy.

Manning has Freeney. That top DE is not doing his job.

 

[YosemiteSam]

Franchise RBs are a lot harder to come by then a franchise DE or DT.

A great offensive line makes any decent RB look like a franchise RB every game. Opposing offensive lines can make a DE look like a franchise DE for one game. If you have a DE making plays every game like Strahan used to do. Then you have a real franchise DE. A RB needs help to be great. A DE can just be great.

There is no way I take any running back over a dominate DE.

 

[ZeroClub]

If I had the chance to take Emmitt or Reggie White, I'd take White and never look back.

That would be very difficult for me to do.

 

[Common Sense]

A running back is only as good as his line, for the most part. That said, I never thought Mario Williams was that good in the first place. If I'm the Texans, I either take Bush, or if Kubiak feels he can continue his "plug in any RB and let him run for a thousand" trend on offense, I trade down and pick up a few extra players. To me, Kiwanuka of the Giants looked as good as Williams this preseason.

 

[gbrittain]

I have seen too many times a DE go up against a good to great OT and get shut down.

Think about Erik Williams shutting Reggie White completely down by himself. Granted Erik was indeed great at the team he was doing that.

One player can single handedly take a great DE and completely shut him down. One player can not shut down a great RB. It simply does not happen.

A great RB can even impact your defense by grinding out 1st down after 1st down and keeping your defense fresh.

A great RB can provide protection to your QB like Emmitt did for Aikman. How many times did Emmitt save Troy from being leveled?

A great RB can open up things for your WRs due to eight men in the box.

A great RB can be a big time receiving threat.

Now I understand a great DE can do way more than just rush the passer, but ultimately a great RB will give the other team more to worry about.

 

[dallasfan]

QB
DE
LT

if the players grade equally you draft in that order assuming you don't have a good or great player there. But imo, Bush and Williams don't grade equally, Bush was better.

 

[Stautner]

QB
DE
LT

if the players grade equally you draft in that order assuming you don't have a good or great player there. But imo, Bush and Williams don't grade equally, Bush was better.

RB isn't even on the list.

 

[gbrittain]

One more thing of note: I did a quick count and I admit this might be off by a TD or two (hope not) but during the four year run in which Dallas won the Super Bowl three times and lost to the 49ers in the NFC championship game Emmit Smith scored 91 TDs.

That includes the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Four seasons 91 TDs. Absolutely incredible. Granted had Dallas had an average back he would have scored some TDs, but it would be nowhere near 91 TDs.

You can not replace those TDs.

 

[Cochese]

One more thing of note: I did a quick count and I admit this might be off by a TD or two (hope not) but during the four year run in which Dallas won the Super Bowl three times and lost to the 49ers in the NFC championship game Emmit Smith scored 91 TDs.

That includes the playoffs and the Super Bowl. Four seasons 91 TDs. Absolutely incredible. Granted had Dallas had an average back he would have scored some TDs, but it would be nowhere near 91 TDs.

You can not replace those TDs.

Well instead of handing it off inside the 5, Troy could have thrown more and added more TD's to his career numbers instead.


Just because Erik Williams played well against White once is meaningless. A dominant DE requires constant double teaming, which leads to other players getting favorable matchups, leads to countless sacks, pressures which lead to incompletions or turnovers. In a league where defense wins, a DE is the key position to be strong in a traditional 4-3 defense.

 

[Doomsday101]

A running back is only as good as his line, for the most part. That said, I never thought Mario Williams was that good in the first place. If I'm the Texans, I either take Bush, or if Kubiak feels he can continue his "plug in any RB and let him run for a thousand" trend on offense, I trade down and pick up a few extra players. To me, Kiwanuka of the Giants looked as good as Williams this preseason.

If that were true then guys like Sherman Williams would have done great behind the Dallas line and he didn't when Emmitt was out of the game with injury or holding out Dallas had no running game at all. There are many examples of teams going from the bottom of the league into contenders because of great RB. This is not to say OL is not important but a great back can make an average line look great.

 

[Hostile]

You can't control whether someone will trade with you or not, so you should eliminate number 2 and add picking Vince Young, the hometown guy as the second option. Vince would make their offensive line better and will surpass anything David Carr has done to date. Vince didn't have a receiver anywhere close to being as good as Andre Johnson at Texas. Vince is a lot closer to being John Elway than Carr will ever be.

I wouldn't eliminate option #2, though I will admit picking Young would probably accomplish the same thing picking Bush would do which is to placate the fans. A QB has to produce in order to "make the OL better." That would still be a roll of the dice. I don't think them giving up on Carr was a good solution, thus I would have focused on fixing the OL over drafting a DE. D'Brickashaw Ferguson was IMO the best player in the draft and filled a definite need for the Texans. He is the only player whom I would have taken ahead of Bush. They blew it unless Mario turns it around.

 

[gbrittain]

Well instead of handing it off inside the 5, Troy could have thrown more and added more TD's to his career numbers instead.


Just because Erik Williams played well against White once is meaningless. A dominant DE requires constant double teaming, which leads to other players getting favorable matchups, leads to countless sacks, pressures which lead to incompletions or turnovers. In a league where defense wins, a DE is the key position to be strong in a traditional 4-3 defense.

First of all it is not meaningless that Eric Williams played well against Reggie White. He is not the first OT to play well against a DE and not the last. A dominant DE does not always require constant double teaming. Sure it happens, but like I said I have seen great OT handle a great DE. I have seen them fail as well to be fair.

 

[Maikeru-sama]

I have seen too many times a DE go up against a good to great OT and get shut down.

Think about Erik Williams shutting Reggie White completely down by himself. Granted Erik was indeed great at the team he was doing that.

One player can single handedly take a great DE and completely shut him down. One player can not shut down a great RB. It simply does not happen.

A great RB can even impact your defense by grinding out 1st down after 1st down and keeping your defense fresh.

A great RB can provide protection to your QB like Emmitt did for Aikman. How many times did Emmitt save Troy from being leveled?

A great RB can open up things for your WRs due to eight men in the box.

A great RB can be a big time receiving threat.

Now I understand a great DE can do way more than just rush the passer, but ultimately a great RB will give the other team more to worry about.

Well, how many great offensive tackles are you going to go up against. I am pretty sure Reggie White won his fair share of battles with equally great Offensive Tackles.

A great pass rushers allows you to protect your corners, disrupt the offensive timing, allow you to "hide" if you will, your weaker defensive lineman, force the offense to keep tight ends and backs in (as oppose to them doing other things like running and catch for TDs).

- Mike G.