Offseason musing. What would you take for Dak?

[dwmyers]

Oh come on...If Cleveland were to offer us both their #1's...We would jump all over this.

First we would draft Myles Garrett w/ the top pick....

then sitting @ 1/12 and 1/28....you could package both of those picks and get a Mitch Trubisky QB N. Carolina who is probably a better player in the long run.

Should we...without a doubt. But would we???? Funny how Jerry lost his gambling spirit after Jimmy left. Doesn't take a genius to figure out who was really running the Cowboys in the 90's

The funny thing is, Mark Zinno, of 92.9 the game, (ATL talk radio) was proposing exactly that a couple days ago. The argument was they could get Myles Garret, use Romo for a couple years, and then fix their QB situation.

i.e. This exact scenario is already talk show fodder.

D-

 

[Brooksey]

I know you want pro bowls to be meaningless but those teams had talented OL, RB, WR, and defenses.

I don't think you even know what ad hominem means.

You talk about Brady having success with Moss but don't mention Brady winning a SB with Edelman, Hogan and Blount and no Gronk three weeks ago?

Let me customize ad hominem just for you. In your case you attack people when they poke holes in your Dak/Brady theory instead of staying with the topic and attacking that. You perform ad hominem with rhetoric, meaning you use big words to try and impress members and intimidate your opposition.

Sorry man. I really like most of your weekly write ups, I'm a fan but relax.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

So you blanket dismiss without any basis whatsoever. How droll and lazy.

If you want to bias by X number of X award then you have no point.

Those QBs had talented OL, WR, and RB corps plus better defenses.

And let me guess you are a Romo supporter?

Forgive the blanket dismissal... you did expend some time to produce some examples. You deserve a similar effort in return.
However, I could scarcely work up the will to do so because at this point you are largely arguing with yourself. I have never stated that he is the only QB in the history of the league to receive a lot of help from his team. Perhaps I am suggesting that he has received more help than I don't know, 99% of all of the quarterbacks who have ever lived... and that maybe, just maybe with a sample size of 1 season that there are a lot of Dak slobberers who are going to have their feelings hurt in the near future.
So I'll leave you all with the question: "In the history of the NFL, how many quarterbacks, rookie or veteran, ever played with three or more offensive linemen and one or more running backs from that year's AP All-Pro first team? (Reminder: the answer must be numerical)

 

[rambo2]

The funny thing is, Mark Zinno, of 92.9 the game, (ATL talk radio) was proposing exactly that a couple days ago. The argument was they could get Myles Garret, use Romo for a couple years, and then fix their QB situation.

i.e. This exact scenario is already talk show fodder.

D-

It sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[KJJ]

I wouldn't take the farm and then some to trade Dak and roll with Romo. We struck gold in the 4th round last April with the most valuable piece to any SB team, a franchise QB and there's been threads with some wanting to trade him away. You trade Dak and roll with Romo we can say goodbye to even sniffing the playoffs because Romo isn't going to stay healthy and we would likely find ourselves in a similar situation to what we were in, in 2015. Whatever you get for Dak in a trade, you would be giving it all away and probably then some trying to find another franchise QB. You could be coughing up draft picks for years trying to replace what you found in the 4th round.

Health permitting we have a QB for the next 10 plus years that could lead us to where the Cowboys haven't been in 21 years. You can't roll with Romo who'll be 37 by the start of next season and can't stay healthy. We would be rolling to a stop with him every time he gets hurt. We have all the pieces to win a championship on offense, we just need pass rushers and a playmaker in the secondary.

 

[LatinMind]

I've seen lots of threads talking about how much we can get for Romo. I've seen threads talking about trading up in the draft. Even seen a few posts joking/talking about trading Dak.

Here's my question, what would you take to actually trade Dak away and roll forward with Romo? Start the search for yet another back-up?

For me, I won't say "never," but I just wouldn't. Cleveland's first for the next few years and I'd get interested, but probably not even then.

What about you?

Nothing, Dak is this teams future.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Are you just trolling nowadays?

Roethlisberger did not even read both sides of the field his rookie year. Of course a rookie's gameplan is not going to be as expansive as a veterans.

Prescott still had a rookie year above all the others.

I know. And I said as much in the thread I discussed this with @percyhoward.

But you said nobody questioned Big Ben after his rookie year and that's just not true.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I wouldn't take the farm and then some to trade Dak and roll with Romo. We struck gold in the 4th round last April with the most valuable piece to any SB team, a franchise QB and there's been threads with some wanting to trade him away. You trade Dak and roll with Romo we can say goodbye to even sniffing the playoffs because Romo isn't going to stay healthy and we would likely find ourselves in a similar situation to what we were in, in 2015. Whatever you get for Dak in a trade, you would be giving it all away and probably then some trying to find another franchise QB. You could be coughing up draft picks for years trying to replace what you found in the 4th round.

Health permitting we have a QB for the next 10 plus years that could lead us to where the Cowboys haven't been in 21 years. You can't roll with Romo who'll be 37 by the start of next season and can't stay healthy. We would be rolling to a stop with him every time he gets hurt. We have all the pieces to win a championship on offense, we just need pass rushers and a playmaker in the secondary.

I don't think anyone is arguing we should have Dak on the trade block. The thread is what would you take for Dak. And if Cleveland offered me their two 1sts and a 1st next year.... I'd run to the commissioner's office with the deal.

 

[Supercowboy1986]

Your examples were nonsense, I didn't find any of the supporting casts "similar"... and if your "point" was that players on a team sport are affected by other players on a team sport... then I hope you didn't expend a lot of energy on that one.
The question was posed without comment... and the power of the question shook you and other Dak slobberers to the core.

Just for My knowledge and to appease my curiosity what is the TLDR version on why you don't like DP?

I've noticed you have held this position but don't know why. I have no interest in debating or arguing with you or anyone else on this topic.

 

[KJJ]

I don't think anyone is arguing we should have Dak on the trade block. The thread is what would you take for Dak. And if Cleveland offered me their two 1sts and a 1st next year.... I'd run to the commissioner's office with the deal.

I know what the thread is about, no one is arguing we should trade him in this thread, I'm referring to the other threads where some have suggested trading him. I made it clear I wouldn't take the farm and then some for Dak. Draft picks are a crapshoot, there's no guarantees of coming up with anything. You would have to use those picks you get from Cleveland to try and find another QB. You may have to package them all to find another QB and could end up with another RG3 or the many other busts that have been drafted at the position.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I know what the thread is about, no one is arguing we should trade him in this thread, I'm referring to the other threads where some have suggested trading him. I made it clear I wouldn't take the farm and then some for Dak. Draft picks are a crapshoot, there's no guarantees of coming up with anything. You would have to use those picks you get from Cleveland to try and find another QB. You may have to package them all to find another QB and could end up with another RG3 or the many other busts that have been drafted at the position.

Dak being a franchise qb at this point is a crapshoot. We've seen qbs who have looked great only proven to then be fool's gold. If I could get 3 elite prospects while getting better qb play for 2 years in Romo over Dak.... It's a no brainer to me.

But oh Romo could get injured. It's true. He's old. Good thing young qbs like Bridgewater are immune to such.

 

[KJJ]

Dak being a franchise qb at this point is a crapshoot. We've seen qbs who have looked great only proven to then be fool's gold. If I could get 3 elite prospects while getting better qb play for 2 years in Romo over Dak.... It's a no brainer to me.

But oh Romo could get injured. It's true. He's old. Good thing young qbs like Bridgewater are immune to such.

I saw plenty from Dak this past season to be convinced he's a franchise QB. He looked great in preseason and throughout the entire regular season. In the playoffs he was statistically better than Aaron Rodgers. Dak had the greatest rookie season ever at the QB position. His maturity level on and off the field has me extremely confident we have our QB. You're gambling that those three elite prospects will become elite NFL players. The chances of all three panning out are slim.

Romo isn't going to last a full season the next two seasons. You'll end up stuck like we were in 2015 using backup QBs. There isn't a more difficult position to solidify than the starting QB position. Just look at what Cleveland has been going through ever since Bernie Kozar. All QBs can be injured but Romo is aging and you really can't look past next season with him. If you got two relatively healthy years out of him you would be lucky. I wouldn't trade Dak for anything and I sincerely mean that.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Forgive the blanket dismissal... you did expend some time to produce some examples. You deserve a similar effort in return.
However, I could scarcely work up the will to do so because at this point you are largely arguing with yourself. I have never stated that he is the only QB in the history of the league to receive a lot of help from his team. Perhaps I am suggesting that he has received more help than I don't know, 99% of all of the quarterbacks who have ever lived... and that maybe, just maybe with a sample size of 1 season that there are a lot of Dak slobberers who are going to have their feelings hurt in the near future.
So I'll leave you all with the question: "In the history of the NFL, how many quarterbacks, rookie or veteran, ever played with three or more offensive linemen and one or more running backs from that year's AP All-Pro first team? (Reminder: the answer must be numerical)

And I see no point in the question given its arbitrary bias.

There are very good players that never make an all pro squad. There have been plenty of teams with 4 or more all pros on them. Given the lack of talent on defense I think there are plenty of teams that gave their QBs more help.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Dak being a franchise qb at this point is a crapshoot. We've seen qbs who have looked great only proven to then be fool's gold. If I could get 3 elite prospects while getting better qb play for 2 years in Romo over Dak.... It's a no brainer to me.

But oh Romo could get injured. It's true. He's old. Good thing young qbs like Bridgewater are immune to such.

Dak has shown the ability to read defenses through 4+ in the progression, operate under center, throw with touch and accuracy, limit turnovers, and run play fakes better or equal to anyone in the league. About the only thing he doesn't do well is throw the deep ball but there are HoF quarterbacks like Aikman, Montana, and Stabler than threw mediocre deep balls. He did all of that without having to rely on his feet like flash in the pans like RG3 and Kaepernick

If you want to say that he needs to show you that he can do it again then fine but he has shown the skillset of an NFL QB and the work ethic to make good on it. Most players make their biggest improvements from their first to second year. It is scary how good he could be if he follows suit.

Romo has back issues and is 36 years old. Dredging up Bridgewater's horrible knee injury and pretending that makes Dak an equal risk is absurd. Romo is going; might as well get accustomed to the idea.

 

[JoeKing]

yeah ok- Romo goes down after 3 plays and Sanchez finishes the season.
Why would u even toy with any idea of trading Dak?
Some people cant handle success and just like living in a cesspool of failure

You're being pretty hard on the Cleveland.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Brady lost the SB with Moss and won it with Edelman, lol. When has Brady had Zeke with our Offensive line and Dez Bryant? He just won the SB with Juilan Edelman and Blount, come on now.

I never said that Brady wasn't good.

Grandstanding on individual games is dumbing things down nicely though. Then we look at the stats for the relative seasons and you quickly see that he was setting league records for yards and points one season and not even close the other.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You talk about Brady having success with Moss but don't mention Brady winning a SB with Edelman, Hogan and Blount and no Gronk three weeks ago?

Let me customize ad hominem just for you. In your case you attack people when they poke holes in your Dak/Brady theory instead of staying with the topic and attacking that. You perform ad hominem with rhetoric, meaning you use big words to try and impress members and intimidate your opposition.

Sorry man. I really like most of your weekly write ups, I'm a fan but relax.

Using multisyllables is ad hominem? Maybe it makes some feel stupid but I never intend that nor call people that. I am well read and use the words correctly and efficiently. Deal with it.

Ad hominem is attacking someone you are arguing with's character and making that the basis of your argument. For example making their vocabulary a negative and accusing them of intimidation would be an example of ad hominem.

I like how you accuse me of classless behavior and then tell me to relax though. You like turning things up on their head apparently.

As for Brady, as I said before, judging everything on a single game that doesn't even have a common opponent is asinine. If you look at the aggregate of passing yards, efficieny, and scoring the two season are not comparable.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

Just for My knowledge and to appease my curiosity what is the TLDR version on why you don't like DP?

I've noticed you have held this position but don't know why. I have no interest in debating or arguing with you or anyone else on this topic.

I like DP just fine... I just push back on the idea that he's anything more than an average QB in the right place at the right time. The Three Stooges are taking the team on an absurd journey into stupidity, making it up as they go along.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I like DP just fine... I just push back on the idea that he's anything more than an average QB in the right place at the right time. The Three Stooges are taking the team on an absurd journey into stupidity, making it up as they go along.

You sure are intent on backing your way into that conclusion but when you look at his actual skillset like accuracy, ball protection, situational awareness, footwork, and the like it is easy to see that he is much better than average. Alex Smith is average.

It is also interesting that of all the people that you attribute to his success passing the ball not one of them is a receiver, the guys who actually catch the ball.

He likely got more single high safety but his success did not come from passing the ball downfield. He was deadly accurate throwing intermediate throw after intermediate throw. He was money in the middle of the field where mistakes get you picked.

His offensive line was great tied for 7th overall in sacks given up but he was not sitting in there holding the ball and waffling on reads. He got the ball out quickly mostly to Beasley and Witten in the middle of the field.

If he is able to develop a rapport with Dez and start working the ball downfield taking advantage of those heavy boxes he is going to be otherworldly.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

You sure are intent on backing your way into that conclusion but when you look at his actual skillset like accuracy, ball protection, situational awareness, footwork, and the like it is easy to see that he is much better than average. Alex Smith is average.

It is also interesting that of all the people that you attribute to his success passing the ball not one of them is a receiver, the guys who actually catch the ball.

He likely got more single high safety but his success did not come from passing the ball downfield. He was deadly accurate throwing intermediate throw after intermediate throw. He was money in the middle of the field where mistakes get you picked.

His offensive line was great tied for 7th overall in sacks given up but he was not sitting in there holding the ball and waffling on reads. He got the ball out quickly mostly to Beasley and Witten in the middle of the field.

If he is able to develop a rapport with Dez and start working the ball downfield taking advantage of those heavy boxes he is going to be otherworldly.

He is very good at the little he is asked to do. You see accuracy, I see a receiving crew who had the fewest drops in the league making acrobatic reaches for balls that are rarely thrown in the right spot to let the receiver continue. I see a quarterback who almost never throws with anticpation, always directly to the receiver and a tick too late... but the receivers are so open and the quarterback has so much time it almost never matters. You see situational awareness, I see locking on to receivers and never making it back across the field to the initial read, which is why we saw so many instances of receivers streaking downfield wide open and Dak missing them. You see ball protection, I see a quarterback who only had to attempt 16 passes(!) all regular season while trailing by more than one score and never had to attempt a risky pass... against one of the worst schedules in the league.

His entire performance was propped up by the unsustainable play of his teammates and once their play falls back down to normal levels, be it by injury, age, or just randomness he's going to turn back into a pumpkin because he does not have the arm talent or acumen to make up for it. He's just another fourth round dink and dunk guy playing under ideal conditions, and ideal conditions never last.