Offseason musing. What would you take for Dak?

[Brooksey]

I think the tally of threads suggesting we try to cash in by trading Dak is up to 4 now.

Pretty mind-boggling stuff.
Folks are way too bored this time year.
Get a hobby

I feel your pain. We are bored. Imagine if Jerry actually made that move, we put together the '85 Bears defense and we win three Sb's in a row with Romo? That would be mind boggling, it would goes down as the biggest balls move of all time.

Then imagine if Romo goes down in week 8 and Deshone Kizer had to step in...mind boggling. Then maybe the move starts to look like Atl in the second half of the SB, lol

 

[DallasEast]

I believe that was also taken. You're just gonna have to do your own homework this time, bro.

ah. I see. Those thieves' names were At, Tee and Tude. Got it.

Oh...I'm tracking, bro. Romo is Montana to Prescott's Dalton in terms of post-season success rate.

It's a darn shame Dak doesn't potentially have another 10-15 years to improve on it. He could have done the impossible after all those years and bring home 2 Big Wild card wins! Imagine....looking up at that "20XX NFC Wild Card Weiners" banner in Jerry World.

Wow. Hope that impressed Prescott.

Thing is, the currently illogical winning percentage formula counter-argument some people are using to unnecessarily boost Prescott "over" Romo could be logically used possibility as early as the very next postseason. The team's playoff record in six games with Romo is 2-4 or .333 winning percentage. The team's playoff record with Prescott is 0-1 or .000. Prescott could win only ONE playoff game next season (1-1 or .500) and immediately his team's playoff record would supercede Romo's team playoff record at that point. Of course, other scenarios like Romo winning or Prescott losing subsequent playoff games would factor in afterwards but the point highlights how a little patience could justify the exact same counter argument being falsely made in the here-and-now.

 

[Super_Kazuya]

I would say Wentz but I believe that is by design

That is what is not being taken into account, the design of the play. Many teams throw short passes as soon as the QB gets the snap, to get the ball into playmakers hands or stimulate an ineffective running game. It has nothing to do with the ability (or inability) of the QB to execute longer throws. The Cowboys almost never run these kind of plays (or screen plays) which inflates Dak's "air yards".
I don't know where we finished the season but according to this Dak had the 2nd most time to throw in the league at the halfway point:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...l-elliott-cowboys-shredding-defenses-2016-nfl

We also know that despite having more time to throw than just about anyone else, Dak was at the bottom of the league in deep pass attempts... because he's just a dink and dunk guy. He's not even looking at these throws.

 

[fishspill]

Most of the arguments seem to come down to:

I think Dak is going to be good and I thinks he's already shown it

And

I don't think Dak is good but he had a team around him that made him look better


Really, both these things are side debates that pull from the main thread topic. There has to be a value, realistic or not, that you'd put on ANY player. The reasons why are just personal opinion on an incomplete data set.

 

[DFWJC]

I feel your pain. We are bored. Imagine if Jerry actually made that move, we put together the '85 Bears defense and we win three Sb's in a row with Romo? That would be mind boggling, it would goes down as the biggest balls move of all time.

Then imagine if Romo goes down in week 8 and Deshone Kizer had to step in...mind boggling. Then maybe the move starts to look like Atl in the second half of the SB, lol

 

[RJ_MacReady]

ah. I see. Those thieves' names were At, Tee and Tude. Got it.
Wow. Hope that impressed Prescott.

Thing is, the currently illogical winning percentage formula counter-argument some people are using to unnecessarily boost Prescott "over" Romo could be logically used possibility as early as the very next postseason. The team's playoff record in six games with Romo is 2-4 or .333 winning percentage. The team's playoff record with Prescott is 0-1 or .000. Prescott could win only ONE playoff game next season (1-1 or .500) and immediately his team's playoff record would supercede Romo's team playoff record at that point. Of course, other scenarios like Romo winning or Prescott losing subsequent playoff games would factor in afterwards but the point highlights how a little patience could justify the exact same counter argument being falsely made in the here-and-now.

It's Saturday, bro. I've no time to break down my original statement any more than this:

If Prescott plays for the same number of years that Romo has and only comes up with 2 Wild Card wins, I would feel underwhelmed like I do now. If you're happy with those results, fine. Now, I'm off to various thrift stores to find some old desktop mid-towers, a dictionary and maybe a used Romo jersey.

 

[KJJ]

You're a Romo hater, always have been. Romo chokes when it matters most right Mr. KJJ? He chokes in elimination games right?

On the other hand what they are saying is if we get #1, #12 and #33 from Cle, next years #1 plus we own #28 that's 4 first round picks for the defense this year including Myles Garett and Jaylon Smith. All of a sudden Trent Dilfer from the booth can take us to a SB. It's the Hershel Walker trade you were dreaming about for the defense the other day, It's just your boy Dak, lol

Don't know if you're being serious with some of that so I won't comment but Romo is aging and can't play a full 16 game season. Can some of you not see that? I feel he's down to 2 years at best and anyone who would trade Dak regardless how much you were to get in return would be out of their minds. There isn't a more difficult thing in the NFL than finding a franchise QB and Dak proved to me this past season with his poise, leadership, consistency, mobility, ability to read defenses and making smart throws and avoiding turnovers that he's a bonafide franchise QB. There isn't anything you could get in return that would have the positive impact a potentially great QB can have on your franchise. We just went from 4-12 in 2015 due to a poor QB situation to a 13-3 team because of our improved QB situation.

The Cowboys are a QB dependent team that prior to the 2016 season only won ONE game since 2011 without Romo. The team went 1-11 without him in 2015. At this stage in his career with injury issues that have put him on the sidelines for a season and half worth of games we can no longer count on him. I don't care who you add to our defense we're not going to win games without a solid, consistent QB. Regardless of your defense you still have to move the football and score points in this league to win games. The Texans had the #1 defense this past season and got knocked out of the playoffs because of their QB situation. You don't try and build your defense by sacrificing your most important player, your franchise QB. A Trent Dilfer isn't going to win games for the Cowboys unless you build the 2000 Ravens defense which was one of the all-time greatest defenses.

There's no assurances Jaylon Smith will ever come back from that injury and be a great NFL player so you certainly can't bank on him. It's going to take more than a Miles Garrett to make a huge impact on our defense because one great player doesn't make a great unit, we found that out with Demarcus Ware who was one of the all-time greats. If we want to build a championship team we need to keep our offense in tact which is championship caliber and start building the defense by adding pass "rushers" and a playmaker to our secondary. Dak is going to be a top 5 QB within 2-3 years if not sooner and you don't dare trade him away leaving yourself with an aging injury prone QB who hasn't lasted 2 games the last 3 times he saw significant action. Thank goodness some of you on this board don't own the team.

 

[DallasEast]

It's Saturday, bro. I've no time to break down my original statement any more than this:

If Prescott plays for the same number of years that Romo has and only comes up with 2 Wild Card wins, I would feel underwhelmed like I do now. If you're happy with those results, fine.

I haven't been happy with the team's playoff results since the team's last Super Bowl victory.

I know.

Some people don't evaluate how each player and coach contribute or do not contribute to every win and loss but other people can and do. And just as I can say that Prescott wasn't the primary (or even close to being the primary) reason why the team lost last postseason, I can equally say Romo has been overly criticized for the team's playoff futility with him as quarterback.

Observation, evaluation and logical conclusion makes for balanced praise and criticism, when appropriate.

 

[percyhoward]

I see a receiving crew who had the fewest drops in the league making acrobatic reaches for balls that are rarely thrown in the right spot to let the receiver continue. I see a quarterback who almost never throws with anticipation, always directly to the receiver and a tick too late... but the receivers are so open and the quarterback has so much time it almost never matters.

There are so many inaccuracies in that post that it actually took three different posts for me to respond to all of them. If the draft were held today, Prescott would obviously go in the top 5. Personnel people are asking themselves what went wrong. I'm generalizing, but in their analysis of his accuracy in college, the experts effectively lumped all of his attempts together without considering how bad his pass protection was. They were treating his attempts just like any other QB's attempts.

What they didn't factor in was that his poor pass protection often forced him to make throws that his peers didn't have to make as frequently. As a result, he ended up with one of the lowest percentage of attempts to open receivers of his draft class. It's important to note that this doesn't mean "wide open," but with at least one step of separation. The draft class average for accuracy on passes to receivers with exactly one step of separation was 49.8 percent, so we're not talking about easy throws. On these throws, Prescott was 12.9 percent better than his class, at 62.7 percent.

That isn't simple completion percentage, it's the percentage of attempts that were perfectly thrown “in-stride,” or that hit the receiver between the numbers. This should have clued teams in that he would be very good with average protection. At 6-20 yards, he was especially deadly, also leading his draft class. As a Cowboy he got better than average protection, and predictably, he tore up the league on intermediate throws in his rookie season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-daily-what-did-we-miss-on-dak-prescott/

 

[Super_Kazuya]

There are so many inaccuracies in that post that it actually took three different posts for me to respond to all of them. If the draft were held today, Prescott would obviously go in the top 5. Personnel people are asking themselves what went wrong. I'm generalizing, but in their analysis of his accuracy in college, the experts effectively lumped all of his attempts together without considering how bad his pass protection was. They were treating his attempts just like any other QB's attempts.

What they didn't factor in was that his poor pass protection often forced him to make throws that his peers didn't have to make nearly as often. As a result, he ended up with one of the lowest percentage of attempts to open receivers of his draft class. It's important to note that this doesn't mean "wide open," but with at least one step of separation. The draft class average for accuracy on passes to receivers with exactly one step of separation was 49.8 percent, so we're not talking about easy throws. On these throws, Prescott was 12.9 percent better than his class, at 62.7 percent.

That isn't simple completion percentage, it's the percentage of attempts that were perfectly thrown “in-stride,” or that hit the receiver between the numbers. This should have clued teams in that he would be very good with average protection. At 6-20 yards, he was especially deadly, also leading his draft class. As a Cowboy he got better than average protection, and predictably, he tore up the league on intermediate throws in his rookie season.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-daily-what-did-we-miss-on-dak-prescott/

I have no idea what you are babbling about here. Draft class? You mean he's more accurate than Wentz and Kessler playing on infinitely better teams? Whooptie doo.
I watched the games. Twice. He throws to wide open guys behind an impenetrable offensive line. It's not rocket science. He sometimes hits receivers in stride, but he mostly throws behind, over and around them and benefited from a receiving crew that led the league in fewest drops and lowest drop percentage. These stats are going to look extra silly in about 11 months. It's not sustainable.

 

[percyhoward]

You mean he's more accurate than Wentz and Kessler playing on infinitely better teams?

As was explained in the article, he was the most accurate of the 20 QB who were charted on those throws.

 

[KJJ]

Reading these posts it's pretty clear some are not into Dak as our QB. You get the feeling that regardless how great he becomes and regardless how many championships we might win with him, some are still not going to be sold on him and will still think Romo is better and could have done the same if not more. There's Romo FANS that are bigger FANS of him than this team. It makes no difference to his FANS that we've won nothing of significance with him. You get the feeling Dak is going to have a lot of detractors regardless how well he plays and how many games we win.

There's some that don't like his game and probably never will. Even in the wins against Green Bay earlier this past season and against Pittsburgh and in the OT win over Philly, some Romo FANS were critical of Dak's play despite the fact we won and he played great. They want the gunslinging that Romo brought regardless of the turnovers. FANS don't like the short, safe middle of the field passing game, they want risky throws down the field into coverage that could lead to a TD or a pick. I've said it several times, some Romo FANS would rather lose with him than to win with Dak. As crazy as that sounds, I believe it's true.

 

[DallasEast]

Reading these posts it's pretty clear some are not into Dak as our QB. You get the feeling that regardless how great he becomes and regardless how many championships we might win with him, some are still not going to be sold on him and will still think Romo is better and could have done the same if not more. There's Romo FANS that are bigger FANS of him than this team. It makes no difference to his FANS that we've won nothing of significance with him. You get the feeling Dak is going to have a lot of detractors regardless how well he plays and how many games we win.

There's some that don't like his game and probably never will. Even in the wins against Green Bay earlier this past season and against Pittsburgh and in the OT win over Philly, some Romo FANS were critical of Dak's play despite the fact we won and he played great. They want the gunslinging that Romo brought regardless of the turnovers. FANS don't like the short, safe middle of the field passing game, they want risky throws down the field into coverage that could lead to a TD or a pick. I've said it several times, some Romo FANS would rather lose with him than to win with Dak. As crazy as that sounds, I believe it's true.

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/30A01E4E-741A-4769-B553-A3816860AAEC_zpseto3f0kz.png​

 

[Super_Kazuya]

As was explained in the article, he was the most accurate of the 20 QB who were charted on those throws.

Ok, I get it now. Still, that's college. If anything, the article basically confirmed what I have said all along: he's good at throwing to wide open guys and not nearly as good with tight windows. Doesn't exactly sound like a recipe for long term NFL success. But who knows? Andy Reid's system has managed to continuously create open receivers with average personnel and maybe we will be able to continue and do the same.

 

[KJJ]

http://i356.***BLOCKED***/albums/oo4/DallasEast1701/30A01E4E-741A-4769-B553-A3816860AAEC_zpseto3f0kz.png​

You might as well get used to Dak as our QB because he's going to be leading the Cowboys for a long time. You're one of those who would rather lose with Romo than win with Dak.

 

[DallasEast]

You might as well get used to Dak as our QB because he's going to be leading the Cowboys for a long time.

Strange. I said Romo was leaving Dallas once the 2016 season ended after his speech back last November.

You're one of those who would rather lose with Romo than win with Dak.

I assumed Romo would be the best option this past season after he returned from injury. No rookie quarterback has ever led an offense on an NFL championship team. Ergo...

The 2016 season has concluded. Romo will be playing on another team next season. Are you saying I want Dallas to lose after Romo leaves? That would be a falsehood, KJJ.

 

[KJJ]

I haven't been happy with the team's playoff results since the team's last Super Bowl victory.

I know.

Some people don't evaluate how each player and coach contribute or do not contribute to every win and loss but other people can and do. And just as I can say that Prescott wasn't the primary (or even close to being the primary) reason why the team lost last postseason, I can equally say Romo has been overly criticized for the team's playoff futility with him as quarterback.

Observation, evaluation and logical conclusion makes for balanced praise and criticism, when appropriate.

One reason Romo has been overly criticized because our defense has caused a lot of big games to come to come down to him having to make plays and he's made the critical mistake. Had our D stepped up against Seattle in 2006 and held the Seahawks to a FG instead of a TD in the final 7 minutes that gave them the lead, that game probably doesn't come down to Romo's bobbled hold. Had the D stepped up against the Giants in the 07 playoffs that game probably wouldn't have come down to Romo having to force a throw into the endzone that got picked. Had our D stepped up against Denver in 2013 that game would have been remembered for Romo's 500+ yards and 5 TD's instead of the INT at the end.

There's many more examples of our defense putting games on Romo. Dak will face the same issues until we fix the defense but he's shown the ability to maintain his poise in critical situations and make the plays to overcome some of our defensive issues. He's a better leader and players step up around him. All he needed was one more chance with the ball to pull out the game against Green Bay in the playoffs. We had no chance of coming back to tie that game down 18 points with Romo because he wants to get it all back at once with throws down the field, which lead to turnovers. Dak is more patient and doesn't turn the ball over as much as Romo. The Cowboys will go farther with Dak than they ever did with Romo and you can take that to the bank.

 

[Rockport]

One reason Romo has been overly criticized because our defense has caused a lot of big games to come to come down to him having to make plays and he's made the critical mistake. Had our D stepped up against Seattle in 2006 and held the Seahawks to a FG instead of a TD in the final 7 minutes that gave them the lead, that game probably doesn't come down to Romo's bobbled hold. Had the D stepped up against the Giants in the 07 playoffs that game probably wouldn't have come down to Romo having to force a throw into the endzone that got picked. Had our D stepped up against Denver in 2013 that game would have been remembered for Romo's 500+ yards and 5 TD's instead of the INT at the end.

There's many more examples of our defense putting games on Romo. Dak will face the same issues until we fix the defense but he's shown the ability to maintain his poise in critical situations and make the plays to overcome some of our defensive issues. He's a better leader and players step up around him. All he needed was one more chance with the ball to pull out the game against Green Bay in the playoffs. We had no chance of coming back to tie that game down 18 points with Romo because he wants to get it all back at once with throws down the field, which lead to turnovers. Dak is more patient and doesn't turn the ball over as much as Romo. The Cowboys will go farther with Dak than they ever did with Romo and you can take that to the bank.

Did you get that from a Cracker Jack box?

 

[DallasEast]

One reason Romo has been overly criticized because our defense has caused a lot of big games to come to come down to him having to make plays and he's made the critical mistake. Had our D stepped up against Seattle in 2006 and held the Seahawks to a FG instead of a TD in the final 7 minutes that gave them the lead, that game probably doesn't come down to Romo's bobbled hold. Had the D stepped up against the Giants in the 07 playoffs that game probably wouldn't have come down to Romo having to force a throw into the endzone that got picked. Had our D stepped up against Denver in 2013 that game would have been remembered for Romo's 500+ yards and 5 TD's instead of the INT at the end.

There's many more examples of our defense putting games on Romo. Dak will face the same issues until we fix the defense but he's shown the ability to maintain his poise in critical situations and make the plays to overcome some of our defensive issues. He's a better leader and players step up around him. All he needed was one more chance with the ball to pull out the game against Green Bay in the playoffs. We had no chance of coming back to tie that game down 18 points with Romo because he wants to get it all back at once with throws down the field, which lead to turnovers. Dak is more patient and doesn't turn the ball over as much as Romo. The Cowboys will go farther with Dak than they ever did with Romo and you can take that to the bank.

Wait. You're slipping. You forgot to mash the heck out of your caplock, f, a, n and s keys multiple times.

 

[DFWJC]

Just a note from a side issue that popped up here regarding playoffs wins, by the TEAM.

With a team loaded with young pro bowlers on offense and a young defense that will get built upon and better, I absolutely expect Dallas to have more playoff succes the next 10 years than they had the last 10.
It's a great situation for the team and Dak, and they/he will capitalize.
If you get enough chances, and I think they will, you eventually break through.

I doubt he will ever play on teams in the same universe to as crappy as we had in 2010-2013.
The chances will consistently be there, and the odds are in our favor