OT: Breaking News on the gambling story...

[Nors]

Hold the phone here. In the original article you posted, it said the ring had been running for 5 years. It did not pin point the time frame of the 500K. The article you just posted seems to be a re-hash of what has already been circulated with just a bit of difference in the time frames thrown in for flavor. In all of these articles, I have not seen anybody referenced as a source in any official capacity. Only vague statments and time frames. Sorry, nothing I've seen here passes for anything other then hear say.

Multiple reports and sources report Jones/Gretzky bet $500K in past month. She by all accounts bet a LOT.....
It's in all the articles. Heck, Wayne was wiretapped trying to figure out how to cover it up....... GM of Phoenix bet with Tochet, another coach today admitted that he knew Tochet was a gambler - in fact watched games with him.

Do you think at this point this is all fabricated? To make Jones/Gretzky look bad? I've read many of the court doc's - looks pretty damn serious to me.


Gretzky Says He Never Placed a Bet With Ring
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By DAVE CALDWELL
Published: February 10, 2006
A drawn and weary Wayne Gretzky, hockey's Great One and now the coach of the Phoenix Coyotes, said last night that he did not participate in a betting ring that New Jersey authorities said was financed by his friend and assistant, Rick Tocchet.

Skip to next paragraph

Stephen Shugerman/Getty Images
Wayne Gretzky said he was "concerned" for his assistant Rick Tocchet and his wife, Janet Jones.

"First and foremost, I've done nothing wrong — nothing that has anything along the lines of betting," Gretzky said in a news conference after the Coyotes' 5-1 loss to the Dallas Stars in Glendale, Ariz. "That never happened. I didn't bet. It didn't happen. It's not going to happen, it hasn't happened, and it's not something I've done."

Gretzky said he planned to continue to coach the Coyotes, who have lost five of their past six games, and also planned to accompany the Canadian men's hockey team, of which he is the executive director, to the Olympics in Turin, Italy. He called the past three days, in which his name was connected to the betting ring, as "horrible." He did not take questions from reporters.

"I am too tired mentally and physically to talk any more about it," he said.

Earlier, Janet Jones, Gretzky's wife, issued a statement through the Coyotes in which she said her husband was not involved in the betting ring.

"At no time did I ever place a wager on my husband's behalf, period," Jones said in the statement. "Other than the occasional horse race, my husband does not bet on any sports."

Jones has not been charged in the investigation, but The Star-Ledger of Newark reported yesterday that law-enforcement officials told the newspaper that Gretzky had been recorded on a wiretap talking to Tocchet about how Jones could avoid implication. The article did not specify when Gretzky was recorded.

The newspaper reported that Jones bet $500,000 in recent weeks, including $75,000 on Super Bowl XL. Elliot Mintz, a spokesman for Jones, said Jones might be called as a witness before a grand jury in the New Jersey gambling ring

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

To me, the real indicator would be when a person can be tried, convicted and banned from his career on nothing more then a couple of hacks buy lines.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Multiple reports and sources report Jones/Gretzky bet $500K in past month. She by all accounts bet a LOT.....
It's in all the articles. Heck, Wayne was wiretapped trying to figure out how to cover it up....... GM of Phoenix bet with Tochet, another coach today admitted that he knew Tochet was a gambler - in fact watched games with him.

Do you think at this point this is all fabricated? To make Jones/Gretzky look bad? I've read many of the court doc's - looks pretty damn serious to me.


Gretzky Says He Never Placed a Bet With Ring
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By DAVE CALDWELL
Published: February 10, 2006
A drawn and weary Wayne Gretzky, hockey's Great One and now the coach of the Phoenix Coyotes, said last night that he did not participate in a betting ring that New Jersey authorities said was financed by his friend and assistant, Rick Tocchet.

Skip to next paragraph

Stephen Shugerman/Getty Images
Wayne Gretzky said he was "concerned" for his assistant Rick Tocchet and his wife, Janet Jones.

"First and foremost, I've done nothing wrong — nothing that has anything along the lines of betting," Gretzky said in a news conference after the Coyotes' 5-1 loss to the Dallas Stars in Glendale, Ariz. "That never happened. I didn't bet. It didn't happen. It's not going to happen, it hasn't happened, and it's not something I've done."

Gretzky said he planned to continue to coach the Coyotes, who have lost five of their past six games, and also planned to accompany the Canadian men's hockey team, of which he is the executive director, to the Olympics in Turin, Italy. He called the past three days, in which his name was connected to the betting ring, as "horrible." He did not take questions from reporters.

"I am too tired mentally and physically to talk any more about it," he said.

Earlier, Janet Jones, Gretzky's wife, issued a statement through the Coyotes in which she said her husband was not involved in the betting ring.

"At no time did I ever place a wager on my husband's behalf, period," Jones said in the statement. "Other than the occasional horse race, my husband does not bet on any sports."

Jones has not been charged in the investigation, but The Star-Ledger of Newark reported yesterday that law-enforcement officials told the newspaper that Gretzky had been recorded on a wiretap talking to Tocchet about how Jones could avoid implication. The article did not specify when Gretzky was recorded.

The newspaper reported that Jones bet $500,000 in recent weeks, including $75,000 on Super Bowl XL. Elliot Mintz, a spokesman for Jones, said Jones might be called as a witness before a grand jury in the New Jersey gambling ring

Provide the court docs. If you have proof of this, then by all means, it would be more credible then stories cut and pasted out of whichever newspaper is trying to get something in print to sell copy.

I think that Jones bet on games. How much or how often, I don't know. I think that right now there is no evidence getting released to the press and that because of the lack of info, the press is doing what it typically does. It's filling in it's own blanks. Could they be correct? Sure, anything is possible. The question here is not if what is being reported is right or wrong. The question here is when did it become acceptable for a guy to be convicted off of public opinion?

Facts:

No charges have been filed against Gretzky to this point.

No evidence has been released that links Gretsky to any gambling at all.

No exact time frames are known on anything yet. No official word at all.

Jones has publically stated that at no time did she place bets on behalf of here husband.

These are the facts and they can not be disputed.

All the rest is speculation and hear say at this point.

 

[Nors]

The doc's I have read are mostly on Tochett

http://mafiasite.8m.com/philly.htm


These are the guys Tochet, Jones/Gretzky bets are involved with.......

Skinny Joey was a regular in the New Jersey/Philly NHL hockey scene. Often sitting in high profile players seats I'll throw you a bone.

 

[Nors]

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/sports/13827071.htm?source=rss&channel=inquirer_sports

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The doc's I have read are mostly on Tochett

http://mafiasite.8m.com/philly.htm


These are the guys Tochet, Jones/Gretzky bets are involved with.......

Skinny Joey was a regular in the New Jersey/Philly NHL hockey scene. Often sitting in high profile players seats I'll throw you a bone.

Let me tell you what you can do with your bone.

The link you sent is not any sort of legal documentation. OK?

Skinny Joey was reported on ESPN sitting in Lindros's seats already. OK?

It does not link to Gretzky. OK?

Trying to present this in such a way as to implicate Gretsky, IE Jones/Gretzky are involved with, is unfounded. There is no link and further, there is no link to Gretzky being involved with Jones' betting. OK?

Either provide real legal documentation or sack up. You are pulling crap off the tabloids. One or the other. The onis is on you to backup what you have said. You have sources. Provide them.

 

[Nors]

Let me tell you what you can do with your bone.

The link you sent is not any sort of legal documentation. OK?

Skinny Joey was reported on ESPN sitting in Lindros's seats already. OK?

It does not link to Gretzky. OK?

Trying to present this in such a way as to implicate Gretsky, IE Jones/Gretzky are involved with, is unfounded. There is no link and further, there is no link to Gretzky being involved with Jones' betting. OK?

Either provide real legal documentation or sack up. You are pulling crap off the tabloids. One or the other. The onis is on you to backup what you have said. You have sources. Provide them.

I said I have documents related to Tochett's charges - nothing so far on Jones/Gretzky being charged for their role as bettors as they have not been charged. Association, knowledge, participation are very damning!

You have a gambling ring in NJ/Philly?
You do that for 5 years?
You are still alive?

You are involved with the Bruno Scarfo family.


Tocchet on leave

Tocchet has been granted a leave of absence from his job as an assistant coach for the Coyotes. NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman has reportedly put conditions on his leave; Tocchet cannot communicate with anyone linked to the NHL, and Bettman will have final say on when his leave of absence is up.

The commissioner also reserves the right to change the conditions of the leave of absence at any time.

Meanwhile, Tocchet's lawyer denies his client was financing a sports gambling ring or involved with organized crime.

"The allegation that Rick Tocchet financed an illegal gambling operation with organized crime is categorically false and irresponsible," said prominent Newark, N.J. attorney Kevin Marino in a statement issued Wednesday.

Police have charged Tocchet, and another man, James Al Ulmer, with money-laundering, promoting gambling and conspiracy. Ulmer has been released on bail. Tocchet is due to appear in court within days.

Harney, a friend of Tocchet's from Philadelphia, has been charged with money-laundering, conspiracy, official misconduct and promoting gambling. He has been released on bail.

According to court filings, Harney and Tocchet allegedly started their betting operation in 2001. It was based in New Jersey's Evesham Township. At the time, Harney was a state trooper and Tocchet was playing for the Philadelphia Flyers.

The pair reportedly became friends nearly a decade ago, when Harney was working as a bartender at a Holiday Inn bar frequented by Tocchet, who was playing for the Flyers, according to Captain Albert Della Fave of the New Jersey state police. The bar was near the Flyers' arena.

Police say the bar was frequented by members of the Bruno-Scarfo crime family, as well as Joseph (Skinny Joey) Merlino, who was convicted of racketeering in 2001.

Fave said that bets were placed on a variety of sports.

When asked if that included hockey, he said police were still investigating.

The RCMP has not yet been contacted for assistance, Fave said.

Meanwhile, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said they may re-evaluate their gambling policy in the near future.

That could depend in large part on the results of an investigation by the NHL, led by former federal prosecutor Robert Cleary.

As it stands now, NHL players cannot bet on hockey, but are allowed to make legal bets on other sports.

"I want to emphasize that we don't condone any form of illegal gambling. But when it comes to legalized gambling, the question is where do you draw the line? You are talking about limiting the rights of a hockey player to participate in a legal activity," Daly was quoted saying in the USA Today.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

So basically, nothing then?

This is exactly what you said Nors:

"I have access to a lot of stuff on this case. There is a lot of local radio talk with proven insiders that are days ahead of the curve on this story.

Gretzky is going down here - by all accounts. I have had direct dealings in gambling and have seen what organized crime represents and do. Its more than the "movies" depicts and glorifies."

I'm saying that all of this is hear say. Until it's formally charged, and it might be at some point, I don't know, it's nothing more then rumor.

You can't convict a man or call for his job without any credible proof. At this point, Gretzky is guilty of:

Having a stupid wife who is also incredibly hot.

Loving his wife and doing what he can to try and control the situation.

Keep in mind, he has children as well. If she were to get charged, it would effect them in ways we can only imagine.

What husband would not try and prevent this situation from getting out of hand?

 

[Nors]

Never said I had Documents on Jones/Gretzky.


He is in trouble when this is done.


Gotti awatch the company you keep!!!!!!!!



According to court filings, Harney and Tocchet allegedly started their betting operation in 2001. It was based in New Jersey's Evesham Township. At the time, Harney was a state trooper and Tocchet was playing for the Philadelphia Flyers.

The pair reportedly became friends nearly a decade ago, when Harney was working as a bartender at a Holiday Inn bar frequented by Tocchet, who was playing for the Flyers, according to Captain Albert Della Fave of the New Jersey state police. The bar was near the Flyers' arena.

Police say the bar was frequented by members of the Bruno-Scarfo crime family, as well as Joseph (Skinny Joey) Merlino, who was convicted of racketeering in 2001.

Fave said that bets were placed on a variety of sports.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Never said I had Documents on Jones/Gretzky.


He is in trouble when this is done.


Gotti awatch the company you keep!!!!!!!!



According to court filings, Harney and Tocchet allegedly started their betting operation in 2001. It was based in New Jersey's Evesham Township. At the time, Harney was a state trooper and Tocchet was playing for the Philadelphia Flyers.

The pair reportedly became friends nearly a decade ago, when Harney was working as a bartender at a Holiday Inn bar frequented by Tocchet, who was playing for the Flyers, according to Captain Albert Della Fave of the New Jersey state police. The bar was near the Flyers' arena.

Police say the bar was frequented by members of the Bruno-Scarfo crime family, as well as Joseph (Skinny Joey) Merlino, who was convicted of racketeering in 2001.

Fave said that bets were placed on a variety of sports.

So, then you are admitting you don't have any source that links Gretzky with any wrong doing correct?

If this is in fact the case, why should he have to worry about his job? Why should he have to step down?

 

[Hostile]

Misconduct taints game: Scandal tests integrity
By Steve Buckley
Boston Herald General Sports Columnist

Friday, February 10, 2006 - Updated: 01:13 AM EST

You know your league is in trouble when one of your all-time greatest players is getting his name in the papers next to the words “wire tap.”

You know your league is in trouble when it’s just too easy to confuse those colorful mob nicknames with the nicknames of your own players.

And...


The rest of article can only be read by those with integrity.

Which apparently means you have to hate the Constitution.

 

[Hostile]

I've read many of the court doc's - looks pretty damn serious to me.

BS

BS

BS

BS

BS

BS

BS

There are no court documents to read yet.

 

[Nors]

Wrong Hos

I'm looking at a document filed in the Superior Court in Burlington County New Jersey - Filed on 2-5-06 by Detective Coppola, Charge number N.J.S. - 2C:21-25A & C / 2C:2-6 Signed by Captain Jeffrey L Simpkinisi


TOCHETT AND HIS BUDDIES ARE TURNING THEMSELVES IN ON said CHARGES 2-21-06!!!!!


Jones/Gretzky betting fallout to follow!

 

[Hostile]

Wrong Hos

I'm looking at a document filed in the Superior Court in Burlington County New Jersey - Filed on 2-5-06 by Detective Coppola, Charge number N.J.S. - 2C:21-25A & C / 2C:2-6 Signed by Captain Jeffrey L Simpkinisi


TOCHETT AND HIS BUDDIES ARE TURNING THEMSELVES IN ON said CHARGES 2-21-06!!!!!


Jones/Gretzky betting fallout to follow!

First of all I don't believe you. History.

Second, there's been no trial yet, so there are no "court documents."

 

[Nors]

First of all I don't believe you. History.

Second, there's been no trial yet, so there are no "court documents."

1) I don't care you don't believe - its the real deal and available for public consumption. You are way off your game today.

2) No court documents? Ok sherlock!!!!!! How was Tocchet notified? Phone call? Pen writing scrawled on a napkin? nO COURT DOCUMENTS - hahaha man thats funny. He's turning himself in on 2-21 for ****s and giggles?


http://sportsmatter.blogspot.com/

Nice leg work - precedent for association with Gamblers - NHL in past and a litany of good links!

 

[Nors]

State of New Jersey S592970

Versus
Richard R Tocchet
DOB 4-19/64

Cliff Notes!
Charges related to period 12-29-05 to 2-5-06
594 Bets total of $1,086,100
Money Laundering

He is 1 of 3 defendants named!

 

[Nors]

Wayne Gretzky says he doesn't bet. Let's say he's right.

Gretzky says he never bet on professional sports. Or, as he said, "Didn't happen. It's not going to happen. Hasn't happened. It is not something that I have done."


Grant him every word.

But when the Great One says he feels he is defending himself from something he was not involved with, well, the line has to be drawn. And if Gretzky doesn't understand why people are looking to him for either an answer or an explanation, then he's not half the person he appears to be.

And that's just it: Gretzky understands exactly why he is in the middle of the NHL gambling scandal. He just doesn't want to discuss it. From the outside looking in, that's pretty easy to understand.

What anyone can say unequivocally about the case is rather meager. Most of the news has come in the form of leaks from unidentified sources, which is often the way things happen early in a case that hasn't yet fully developed. It's risky business, and it demands going slow and using discretion.

But what is known does affect Gretzky, and it affects him directly. What is known is that his longtime friend and Phoenix associate coach, Rick Tocchet, is accused of being one of the three principal players -- the financier -- in an illegal gambling ring.

Beyond that, Gretzky's wife, Janet Jones, has been identified as one of the people who allegedly placed bets through Tocchet's operation. Jones allegedly made big bets and lots of them -- including a reported $75,000 on the Super Bowl alone. There also was a report, again attributed to unidentified sources, that Gretzky was recorded on a wiretap discussing ways his wife could avoid being implicated in the case.
Jones has released a statement in which she declares specifically that she placed no bets on Gretzky's behalf. But that's not really all there is to it, is it? That's just half of the story.

Many fans will want to believe that Gretzky wouldn't risk his position or his image by throwing down bets through illegal bookies, so let's believe it. But is it substantially better if Gretzky knew the entire operation existed and said nothing?

It may not be illegal, but it doesn't pass the smell test, especially not for the NHL, a league still trying to right itself in the wake of its lost season. There is something incredibly troubling about the prospect -- unproven, but a prospect nonetheless -- that Gretzky knew what was going on, that his wife was involved, that his assistant coach was widely known as the go-to guy for secure bookie betting -- and remained silent.

Of course, no one knows what Gretzky did or didn't say. That's just it. For all anyone knows, Gretzky repeatedly told Tocchet to shut down the alleged operation. Maybe he begged his wife to stay away from the whole deal. Maybe Gretzky tried to steer everyone clear of trouble, and they just didn't listen to him.

That's certainly possible. What isn't possible, at least not on any scale of credibility, is that Gretzky coached alongside the man who supposedly operated the gambling ring and lived with a woman who allegedly placed significant bets through it, yet never knew a thing. That's not real world. And whether or not Gretzky ever answers that question, it remains a completely valid one.

Didn't he know? How could he not know? And even if he didn't break the law by ignoring what may have been going on, doesn't it matter if Wayne Gretzky did ignore it?

It's a harsh standard, perhaps. It is a star standard, the kind that people apply to those in the public eye when they might not pass the same test themselves. In Gretzky's case, the purported participants include a really good friend and a family member, and it's impossible to say what anyone would do in a similar situation. The universe isn't cut and dried.

But as for why the questions are relevant, let there be no doubt. As for why Gretzky should be asked them, there's no mystery at all. When he says he didn't bet, the immediate inclination is to take Gretzky at his word. But not "involved"? No. Very involved. Even if he wishes it weren't so.

 

[Hostile]

1) I don't care you don't believe - its the real deal and available for public consumption. You are way off your game today.

2) No court documents? Ok sherlock!!!!!! How was Tocchet notified? Phone call? Pen writing scrawled on a napkin? nO COURT DOCUMENTS - hahaha man thats funny. He's turning himself in on 2-21 for ****s and giggles?


http://sportsmatter.blogspot.com/

Nice leg work - precedent for association with Gamblers - NHL in past and a litany of good links!

Ever heard of a warrant? Or an Affadavit to Appear? Or a Summons? Or Miranda Rights? Or lawyers?

Ever heard of the Constitution? Or the Bill of Rights? These documents guarantee Due Process of Law. That means you will not be tried in the Court of Public Opinion which for you is the National Enquirer. It means that you're innocent until proven guilty. Nothing has been proven yet.

Oh I'm quite sure you're convinced of their guilt. You want to know how much your opinion matters? Here's an experimant to tell you how much. Take a bucket and fill it with water. Now stick your hand in the water. Pull your hand out. Look at the water in the bucket. The hole left in the water is how much your opinion means.

Circumstantial evidence, reasonable doubt, plea bargains, Government fraud, all part of the Judicial System. You've bypassed all of that with newspaper and Internet articles.

Yeah, I'm quite sure your reading ability and comprehension is more important than the Bill of Rights and the Constitution. There's no end to your importance.



You not only have all these people tried and convicted, you're dancing on the graves of their legacy like that little toy monkey with the cymbals.

Clang, clang, clang. Look at me everyone. I can Google search every article on the subject on the World Wide Web and get a conviction.

If someone points out a flaw in your theory, simple solution, whine about attacks and off topic diversions. You forgot to accuse me of slander though. When will that finally appear?

Enquiring minds want to know.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Why don't we do this. Let's all agree to get back with one another as soon as it is made public that Wayne Gretzky is going to be charged.

At that point, we will all have something to discuss. Until then, I'm all for not convicting Gretzky until we've actually been told that the Gallows are going up and Hos has been instructed to start fashioning the neck tie.

 

[Nors]

Hos - move on - you were wrong again on your statement.

I have the document against Tocchet - contrair to your denial. Schooled again!!!!!!!! And yes its in a written document!!!!!!:laugh2:
- stay focused dude.:laugh1:



There are no current charges against Jones/Gretzky. That has no bearing on if Wayne is able to stay in the NHL once this all unfolds. There is precendent if he is in any capacity part of this activity.