Our "Elite" Players..

[Hostile]

Enjoy your little Bledsoe belittlements now -- when the "real" football starts, all the Bledsoe critics will be silenced. I will enjoy serving up the crow for you and the others thoughout the entire season.

Bledsoe has never had the team he has now, ever. As Parcells said at the press conference -- people don't realize how close they were to being good last year -- this year, at least on paper, they are a whole heck of a lot better.

Bledsoe over his last season and a half -- 15-9. Considering the fact that 8 of those games were with the Bills, another 8 were with 2 rookies on the offensive line, the last 16 were without a FG kicker who could connect from more than 30 yards out, and all 24 were without T.O., I'd call that pretty damn good. Of course, some people insist the outcome of every game can be pinned on the QB, even though that makes no sense at all.

I wasn't belittling Bledsoe. I never have belittled him. I've said over and over that I like him and he's a good QB. Not my fault you're paranoid and have very little reading comprehension apparently. How many times do I need to tell you that before it sinks in?

I was however pointing out the fact that you clearly figured I had forgotten what I challenged you to find and you felt a fantasy football article about TO fit the bill because it said something nice about Bledsoe. Hell, I just said something nice about Drew Bledsoe above. Big fricking deal.

Now let's address your attempt at bait and switch.

First of all, let's talk about the fantasy football angle as evidence of a football pundit.



Stop it,stop it, stop it. Seriously, I'm spotting over here. Why don't you go ahead and tell me you've already played this upcoming season on Madden 2006 and Bledsoe is going to throw for 5000 yards and 40 TDs.

Oh man, laughter, it cleanses the soul.

I gotta give you credit, at least you're not attempting to tell me player of the week awards are as prestigious as MVP awards. I hope I haven't put ideas into your melon with that.

Second of all, and most importantly, let's address what I really challenged you to find. Any credible NFL source that put Brett Favre only slightly ahead of Drew Bledsoe on their careers compared to each other. There's gotta be 500 or so NFL sources between Coaches, GMs, Reporters, etc. Surely you can find one source to back you up. (We both know you can't. It's okay.)

Fantasy football as evidence.



I never knew credibility could swirl downward like that.

 

[on8thdayGodcreatedBledsoe]

http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2005/12/22/84218/818

If I have time, I'll start a little running log of sportswriters who think Favre is a bum. Obviously, it would be impossible to find a legitimate story that specifically covers the topic "Favre has only been slightly better than Bledsoe in his career". What I can deliver is a mountain of criticism levied at Favre not just for the past few seasons, but for his entire career. Sure, the same could be found for Bledsoe, but you stacked the deck by asking me to produce the unproducable, so, whatever.

Just read an interesting fact about Favre -- for his second SB appearance, which GB lost, GB was a 12 point favorite. He was just never really, deep down, all that good.

 

[on8thdayGodcreatedBledsoe]

http://thebackpagesports.com/bp/sport_site/article_view.cfm?aid=1132

He he, here's a whole group of editors who think Favre was never "all that good". One calls his MVP awards "incidental" and points out that he shared one.

 

[on8thdayGodcreatedBledsoe]

Here's a nice little tidbit from the above piece. Shows a breakdown of Favre's last 6 postseasons before his positively dismal performance last year. That makes 7 full craptacular seasons in a row:

2004: 4 INTs, bonehead penalty
2003: 180 Yards passing, 1 INT that cost the Packers the game
2002: losing 27-7 at home to the Falcons, 1 TD, 2 INTs
2001: losing 45-17 to the Rams, 6--count them 6–INTs
2000: no playoffs
1999: no playoffs
That's 6 straight years of pretty awful "clutch" play

 

[Hostile]

http://www.sportscolumn.com/story/2005/12/22/84218/818

If I have time, I'll start a little running log of sportswriters who think Favre is a bum. Obviously, it would be impossible to find a legitimate story that specifically covers the topic "Favre has only been slightly better than Bledsoe in his career". What I can deliver is a mountain of criticism levied at Favre not just for the past few seasons, but for his entire career. Sure, the same could be found for Bledsoe, but you stacked the deck by asking me to produce the unproducable, so, whatever.

Just read an interesting fact about Favre -- for his second SB appearance, which GB lost, GB was a 12 point favorite. He was just never really, deep down, all that good.

Asking you to find even one credible source who agreed with your take is unproducable?

Think about that real hard. Does it tell you anything? It should. It's real obvious.






BTW, articles critical of a player for one thing or another doesn't fit the bill either.

It's okay to admit you were a little premature in your evaluation. Sure it may be a bit embarrassing at first, but not near as embarrassing as trying in vain to continue this.





Fantasy football article as proof.

 

[on8thdayGodcreatedBledsoe]

Asking you to find even one credible source who agreed with your take is unproducable?

Think about that real hard. Does it tell you anything? It should. It's real obvious.






BTW, articles critical of a player for one thing or another doesn't fit the bill either.

It's okay to admit you were a little premature in your evaluation. Sure it may be a bit embarrassing at first, but not near as embarrassing as trying in vain to continue this.





Fantasy football article as proof.

You have a well-practiced little schtick, Hostile. Unfortunately, it has zero substance.

In my opinion Brett Favre will be remembered as a QB who was slightly better than Bledsoe. That's my opinion as of today, but should the Cowboys make some post-season noise over the next couple of years I believe Bledsoe will be remembered as equal to or better than Favre. I believe that Favre is grossly overrated, and I believe Bledsoe is grossly underrated. Many, many, many football fans and experts alike would agree that Favre is overrated. I have provided some evidence to support this belief, should I wish to, I could provide much more.

Now, you may not agree with my opinion. Many people may not agree with my opinion, but that doesn't make it invalid. You seem to think that unless I can produce a quote from an "NFL source" -- whatever that means -- stating that Brett Favre is only "slightly better" than Drew Bledsoe, that you somehow win something. This is pure silliness, and underscores your total lack of an argument.

I'm glad you find the quote from a fantasy site so funny, but I'm not sure why. Fantasy football leagues are very popular and enjoyed by many of the most serious of football fans. Fantasy football is a game based on the performance of real people playing another game. For a fantasy site to make the kind of statements made regarding Bledsoe is quite a nice compliment to Bledsoe and is indeed proof that people believe Drew Bledsoe will flourish now that he finally has a true #1 receiever. What's so funny about that?

Now, in the future, I would appreciate it if you would stick to the topic at hand and spare us your schtick.

 

[Hostile]

You have a well-practiced little schtick, Hostile. Unfortunately, it has zero substance.

In my opinion Brett Favre will be remembered as a QB who was slightly better than Bledsoe. That's my opinion as of today, but should the Cowboys make some post-season noise over the next couple of years I believe Bledsoe will be remembered as equal to or better than Favre. I believe that Favre is grossly overrated, and I believe Bledsoe is grossly underrated. Many, many, many football fans and experts alike would agree that Favre is overrated. I have provided some evidence to support this belief, should I wish to, I could provide much more.

Now, you may not agree with my opinion. Many people may not agree with my opinion, but that doesn't make it invalid. You seem to think that unless I can produce a quote from an "NFL source" -- whatever that means -- stating that Brett Favre is only "slightly better" than Drew Bledsoe, that you somehow win something. This is pure silliness, and underscores your total lack of an argument.

I'm glad you find the quote from a fantasy site so funny, but I'm not sure why. Fantasy football leagues are very popular and enjoyed by many of the most serious of football fans. Fantasy football is a game based on the performance of real people playing another game. For a fantasy site to make the kind of statements made regarding Bledsoe is quite a nice compliment to Bledsoe and is indeed proof that people believe Drew Bledsoe will flourish now that he finally has a true #1 receiever. What's so funny about that?

Now, in the future, I would appreciate it if you would stick to the topic at hand and spare us your schtick.

I really don't care what you'd appreciate frankly.

I find it funny because it is fantasy football. If you think that has anything to do with the actual game of football I have only one thing to say about that.



Fantasy football and Madden football have as much to do with the actual game as you do.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

As for what I win, hey, the laughter is prize enough for me. I've enjoyed every minute of this mock opera and making fun of how little you actually know. It's a royal hoot I tell you. Not as funny as the Church of Vinny guys, but it has it's own brand of hilarity to be sure.

Fantasy football as a credible source.

 

[on8thdayGodcreatedBledsoe]

I really don't care what you'd appreciate frankly.

I find it funny because it is fantasy football. If you think that has anything to do with the actual game of football I have only one thing to say about that.



Fantasy football and Madden football have as much to do with the actual game as you do.

Sorry to burst your bubble.

As for what I win, hey, the laughter is prize enough for me. I've enjoyed every minute of this mock opera and making fun of how little you actually know. It's a royal hoot I tell you. Not as funny as the Church of Vinny guys, but it has it's own brand of hilarity to be sure.

Fantasy football as a credible source.

More nothingness -- what a shock.

 

[Hostile]

More nothingness -- what a shock.

You related to a Logistics Professor at Cleveland University?

 

[firehawk350]

While I agree that the NFL is plentiful in elite RBs it does not mean Julius himself cannot be one. As the above poster stated though, parts of your list is actually comical due to age difference between some of those guys and Jones, but that is beside the point.

The point is Jones plays like an elite RB when he's on the field. Where he ranks among the elite RBs is debatable, there are many elite runningbacks in the NFL.

Elite: The best or most skilled members of a group (off of dictionary.com)

The best... It's relative. So considering there are 100-150 RBs in the league (at most), i would say the top 5% are elite. So 7-8. Let's call it 8. Here you go, 8, even if Julius stays completely healthy, are much better.
Tiki Barber, Stephen Alexander, LaDanian Tomlinson, Clinton Portis, Reggie Bush, Cadillac, Edge, Jamal Lewis. In case you don't think Reggie Bush should be in this list (as he hasn't proven anything), Priest Holmes or Larry Johnson. Priest if you want to go with proven vet, or Johnson if you want a green guy who set the league on fire...

 

[AtlCB]

As far as Roy Williams, Drew Bledsoe and Newman, i just don't consider them elite. Drew bledsoe is too flaky, Roy Williams is a lot like Lavar arrington (too unpredictable), and TNew, I'm basing that off of someone I heard say that he plays the slot receiver on passing downs. in that case, no wonder why he hasn't given up a TD. But if im wrong on that or I heard wrong, let me know...

Name five strong safeties who are better than Roy Williams (if you list Archuletta, you will lose all credibility)? Newman and Glenn both played the slot in the nickle. The injury to Henry forced both players to play the other CB postions, so you cannot use the nickle slot CB theory as an excuse.

 

[firehawk350]

Name five strong safeties who are better than Roy Williams (if you list Archuletta, you will lose all credibility)? Newman and Glenn both played the slot in the nickle. The injury to Henry forced both players to play the other CB postions, so you cannot use the nickle slot CB theory as an excuse.

Nick Ferguson plays a more traditional safety role, with 5 INTs and no sacks. So that's subjective, do you want more INTs (showing he's better in coverage) or do you want a pass rusher? Amount of tackles are nearly identical (79 vs. 81)...
An argument can be made for Sammy Knight, who had an equal number of sacks and one less INT, but more tackles and fumble recoveries. Also, he defended way more passes then Roy Williams, much better in coverage.
Troy Polamalu... No explanation needed.
Adrian Wilson is better at what Roy does then Roy is. 8 sacks and 109 tackles.
Gabril Wilson has over 100 tackles and one more sack (well a half a sack technically). But he sucks in coverage, but then again, so does Roy.
And yes, Adam Archuleta has less tackles and less INTs, but has one more sack and only played 14 games (well 13 full games, he went out against the Cards early).
So wait, are you saying that TNew didn't play the slot very much? Or that he did? I missed your whole argument there.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I would like to say Witten, but Gates is just as good.

if Gates is just as good, then that means Witten is elite

 

[Bob Sacamano]

but vandy missed the only kick that ever really mattered for him...

every kick matters

newman maybe i will give you but the lack of INTs means hes not a game changer

taking your man away from having an impact on the game is changing the game

Witten wasnt elite that year...he was 2nd in catches to gonzalez, and 3rd in TDs to gonzalez and gates. those are the two elite receivers, by far. witten is just a notch below them

elite is being in the top 5 at your position/profession

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Troy Polamalu... No explanation needed.

really, cuz I really need one then to tell me how Troy, with less stats, less INTs and pass deflections, less FFs, is better than Roy Williams

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And yes, Adam Archuleta has less tackles and less INTs, but has one more sack and only played 14 games (well 13 full games, he went out against the Cards early).

:laugh2:

let me ask you a question, has ARchuleta ever been to the Pro Bowl? has he ever been the catalyst on a top 5 D? has he ever been regarded as having met his draft expectations?

 

[AtlCB]

Nick Ferguson plays a more traditional safety role, with 5 INTs and no sacks. So that's subjective, do you want more INTs (showing he's better in coverage) or do you want a pass rusher? Amount of tackles are nearly identical (79 vs. 81)...
An argument can be made for Sammy Knight, who had an equal number of sacks and one less INT, but more tackles and fumble recoveries. Also, he defended way more passes then Roy Williams, much better in coverage.
Troy Polamalu... No explanation needed.
Adrian Wilson is better at what Roy does then Roy is. 8 sacks and 109 tackles.
Gabril Wilson has over 100 tackles and one more sack (well a half a sack technically). But he sucks in coverage, but then again, so does Roy.
And yes, Adam Archuleta has less tackles and less INTs, but has one more sack and only played 14 games (well 13 full games, he went out against the Cards early).
So wait, are you saying that TNew didn't play the slot very much? Or that he did? I missed your whole argument there.

Is this some kind of joke????? Nick Ferguson has one year with 5 int's and he's somehow in the top 5????? He only has 6 int's for the six years that he has been in the league. The rest of his stats aren't elite either.

Sammy Knight is good, but I doubt you will find too many people who will actually agree that he is in the same class as RW.

Gabril Wilson played well last season, but he still has to prove that he is in the same class as RW. One season with numbers close to RW's does not instantly make him a better player.

Troy Polamula is regarded as one of the top safeties in the game, but had stats just below that of Roy Williams. I think both safeties are close to even at this point in their careers and both should be considered elite strong safeties.

Adrian Wilson had a great season last year. He had 8 sacks. He only had 3 sacks total in the four previous years. I would certainly like to see more out of him before I proclaim that he's better than RW. He is definitely in the top five for strong safeties.

Adam Archuletta

 

[bobbie brewskie]

ELITE:
Terrell Owens
Roy Williams
Terrence Newman
Jason Witten (borderline elite)

everybody else that is listed, either hasnt been consistant or hasnt proven themselves or just isnt on the "elite" level, so here are the potentials/good players:
Julius Jones
Demarcus Ware
Greg Ellis
Bradie James
Akin Ayodele
Aaron Glenn
Drew Bledsoe
Flozell Adams
Marco Riviera (if he can get healthy again)

Nick Ferguson plays a more traditional safety role, with 5 INTs and no sacks. So that's subjective, do you want more INTs (showing he's better in coverage) or do you want a pass rusher? Amount of tackles are nearly identical (79 vs. 81)...
An argument can be made for Sammy Knight, who had an equal number of sacks and one less INT, but more tackles and fumble recoveries. Also, he defended way more passes then Roy Williams, much better in coverage.
Troy Polamalu... No explanation needed.
Adrian Wilson is better at what Roy does then Roy is. 8 sacks and 109 tackles.
Gabril Wilson has over 100 tackles and one more sack (well a half a sack technically). But he sucks in coverage, but then again, so does Roy.
And yes, Adam Archuleta has less tackles and less INTs, but has one more sack and only played 14 games (well 13 full games, he went out against the Cards early).
So wait, are you saying that TNew didn't play the slot very much? Or that he did? I missed your whole argument there.

Nick Ferguson, BAH! that is funny that you mention him, he might not even be top10, dont put up players because they post "good" stats, get this guy out of here.

Sammy Knight - just because of a few more PD's you say hes better than Roy Williams. haha, roy williams can change the game in a split second, sammy knight on the other hand doesnt have the game changing ability that roy williams has.

Troy Polamalu - hey its your first elite SS listed! so Troy Polamalu going by your standards shouldnt be compared to R. Williams because his stats arent amazing, but hey, since we all know that stats dont mean jack lets continue. Troy Polamalu can change the game and makes an impact when hes on the field, he is solid in coverage but is not the type of run stuffer that you have in roy williams, not that he has to be with the best LB corpse in football. so Troy has better surroundings but is definately = to Roy Williams in my book, Polamalu isnt the cornerstone of that defense, Jerry Porter and that LB corpse is.

Gabril Wilson - again, all you are doing is pulling out stats and comparing them. how many game changing plays does wilson have compared to Roy? exactly, Roy is also not a BAD coverage SS, he is above-average and can cover better than most SS in the league, just because he is known for his run stuffing ability and hard hitting people find other things to rag on him about, so they bring up the same few mistakes he had. what would you do when there are 2 guys running posts? Gabril Wilson is definately not on the same level as Williams and Polamalu

and just for mentioning Adam Archuleta you need to be beaten. Adam Archuleta can barely compare to Keith Davis let alone Roy Williams . . . haha you are a joke.

Troy Polamalu = Roy williams > everyone else you listed.

Wow, I don't know what to say. I can name over 10 guys that there is no way Parcells wouldn't take him if he had the chance
Alexander
Tomlinson
Holmes
Larry Johnson
Edge
Portis
Cadillac
Reggie Bush
Tiki Barber
Dunn
Faulk
Jamal Lewis
McAllister
Fred Taylor

As far as Roy Williams, Drew Bledsoe and Newman, i just don't consider them elite. Drew bledsoe is too flaky, Roy Williams is a lot like Lavar arrington (too unpredictable), and TNew, I'm basing that off of someone I heard say that he plays the slot receiver on passing downs. in that case, no wonder why he hasn't given up a TD. But if im wrong on that or I heard wrong, let me know...

lets start with Priest Holmes - the guy's career is over, how the hell can he still be better than JJ? his career might have been good but its done and he is not seeing the field anymore.

Larry Johnson - in 9 games had 937 yards rushing while julius jones in 7 games had 813 yards. yea Larry Johnson is a much better back and is not injury prone like JJ but if your comparing stats JJ was on track to have more yards than Larry Johnson in a 9 game period. Larry Johns > Julius Jones

Cadillac - he is a great back and came in as a rookie and made a huge impact, but he missed games because of injury last season, just like jones did his rookie year. i cant say who the better back is yet, cadillac has more potential.

Reggie Bush - i laugh at anyone who mentions him on the NFL level yet, the guy is just as good as mr. irrelevant until he does something in the NFL. btw, he is going to be the biggest upset in draft history, he wont be Elite at anytime in his career because all he knows how to do is run E-W, its not gonna cut it in the NFL if he doesnt cut up field once in a while or if he doesnt utalize the lanes he is given. Reggie Bush < Julius Jones

Marshall Faulk - hes to old, id rather have JJ on my team than faulk, and btw i dont see faulk putting up a season like JJ could anymore. careerwise faulk is better but 2day and 2morrow JJ > Faulk.

Jamal Lewis - he had a 2066 yard season, he is a great player but where was he last year? he dissapointed me last season but is definately better than JJ still. Jamal Lewis > JJ.

Deuce Mcallister - he is producing and has no supporting cast. Deuce > JJ.

Fred Taylor - definately an elite back, when he hits the field. he has more injury problems than JJ and thats why people dont have him in the "elite" category. Fred Taylor > JJ.

 

[The Answer]

The Answer's elite Cowboys:

1.) TO - a top 3 receiver and the key to the 2006 season

2.) Bledsoe - still among the best pure passers in the business

3.) Witten - primed for his best season yet in this offense

4.) Vanderjagt - say what you want about him, but he's the best all time in terms of percentage

5.) Flozell - The Hotel is a top 5 LT, and last season proved that when he got hurt

6.) Roy - The heavy hitter is a monster in the secondary

~The Answer

 

[Gibbs II]

The Answer's elite Cowboys:

1.) TO - a top 3 receiver and the key to the 2006 season

2.) Bledsoe - still among the best pure passers in the business

3.) Witten - primed for his best season yet in this offense

4.) Vanderjagt - say what you want about him, but he's the best all time in terms of percentage

5.) Flozell - The Hotel is a top 5 LT, and last season proved that when he got hurt

6.) Roy - The heavy hitter is a monster in the secondary

~The Answer

Yes, no, ehh, yes, no , no.

How can you call a man who threw 17 INTS and had a rating in the low 80's and a % less than 60 elite??? Stop ebing a homer.

Flozell, nothing against him, but there are better.

Roy, everyone knows what cowboys fans think of him, and everyone knows what skins fans think of him.

Im surprised you guys dont think Witten is absolutely elite. I think he is very good, maybe elite but list guys who are better/have similar numbers.

Gonzo
Gates
Shockey
Crumpler
Cooley
McMichael
Heap

Thats about if i recall, so im surprised some of you guys are counting him out.