Pacman Jones visited strip club before April hearing...*update*

[silverbear]

Strip club.......

Betting on games......

Hmm.....

Both involve actions that might prove detrimental to the game... as I said, neither Hornung nor Karras were ever charged with any crimes, which makes these two situations quite analagous...

Besides, the main point is that the Commisioner has discretion when punishing offenders, and that discretion was established a LOOOOONG time ago... Goodell isn't doing anything here that his predecessors didn't do...

 

[theogt]

Both involve actions that might prove detrimental to the game... as I said, neither Hornung nor Karras were ever charged with any crimes, which makes these two situations quite analagous...

Besides, the main point is that the Commisioner has discretion when punishing offenders, and that discretion was established a LOOOOONG time ago... Goodell isn't doing anything here that his predecessors didn't do...

Two points:

1. No one is suggesting the commish doesn't have wide discretion. Just because you have discretion doesn't mean it should be exercised.

2. There's really nothing analagous about the situations whatsoever. If you can't tell the difference in impact between gambling on games and strip clubs, I shouldn't have wasted my time typing the 1st point.

 

[burmafrd]

And how many pacmans can dance on the head of a pin. though clearly he is a pin head. Some of you guys arguing about semantics really miss the point. When you have screwed up as MUCH as Pacman has, you have no leeway at all. there is no margin for error, you get no freebies. ANYTHING that you do that even halfway looks bad counts against you. JUST like it DOES in the courts. And Goodell is the court. Pacman has shown NO signs of GETTING IT.
Any chance he had of not losing all of 2007 has pretty much gone unless he does a full 180 right now. And there is no sign of that. He can try and go to court and waste more money, but he has no chance due to his CONTINUED stupid actions.

 

[joseephuss]

Betting on games represents behavior that can directly affect the sport. Even if you claim you dont bet on your sport, the suspicion is there. Big difference between that and a strip club.

Not defending Pac Man's intelligence one bit. I think he is an idiot for going to a place that has the potential (at least for him) to be trouble. I just find the idea that the commissioner can suspend him further for attending a strip club, self imposed ban or not, quite ridiculous.

That is not part of this issue. Godell is not considering his recent attendance of a strip club as part of any further punishment. It will probably come into play on his decision to possibly reduce the current suspension.

According to Chris Mortenson yesterday, the original suspsension was not only for the 2007 season. It was also for part of the 2008 season. From what I understood, the 2008 suspension was not set in stone and was dependent on the legal investigations Pacman is undergoing. That suspension was given before Pacman visited the strip club the night before he met with the commisioner. Pacman has a chance to return after 10 games in 2007 depending on keeping out of trouble and how his current troubles turn out. If he receives any indictments, that will probably kick the suspension into its full term.

 

[silverbear]

Two points:

1. No one is suggesting the commish doesn't have wide discretion. Just because you have discretion doesn't mean it should be exercised.

2. There's really nothing analagous about the situations whatsoever. If you can't tell the difference in impact between gambling on games and strip clubs, I shouldn't have wasted my time typing the 1st point.

Do look up the meaning of the word "analagous"... it doesn't mean IDENTICAL, but rather that there are similarities between the two...

The similarities I outlined in my last post; both actions carry the potential to harm the league... gambling causes the fans to suspect the legitimacy of the outcome of games, constant negative public attention for lawless acts causes sponsors to be more reluctant to pay top dollar to advertise during games (or perhaps more accurately, both carry the potential to do these things)...

Just as it's in the league's best interest to keep its players away from professional gamblers, it's every bit as much in its interests to keep them off the police blotters...

As for whether or not the commissioner ought to use his discretion, I'll simply repeat that his mandate when he got the job was to be the new sheriff in town, so of course he ought to employ his discretion in this situation...

 

[5mics]

Talk about freaking Big Brother.

Good lord.

Goodell used to work for the NSA and Dubya.....

 

[5mics]

Last time I checked, looking at nude women dancing for you was not illegal.

BUT you better not touch, unless she ok's it.....

 

[5mics]

Last time I checked, nobody is going to jail for it either.

Playing in the NFL is a privilage, not a right. You can go to strip clubs till the Cows come home, so to speak. In fact, most players probably do. For one "Pacman Jones", he can continue to go to clubs all he wants. He just can't go to them and still be part of the NFL. Simple as that.

I would agree that he needs to stay out of them during his suspension BUT if he stays out of trouble, he should definitely have the right to go back to them after his "sentence" is up. I may be getting ahead of myself because I have no idea if Jones can stay out of trouble for the period of time BUT if he abides by his suspension mandate, he should be able to go back to the clubs afterwards without repercussions from the league.....

 

[Doomsday]

Pacman is a moron for putting himself in a situation, but how can the commish come down harder on him for visiting a place that is not against the law, open to the public, and not against the NFL bylaws? Isnt Pacman a grown man?

Pacman was asked what he planned to do to turn around his image and he stated he was going to make better choices about who he hangs around with and stop going to strip clubs and such places. Then he turns around and goes to a strip club the night before meeting with the commish? Has to make you question his willingness to actually change.

I never really understood the fasination of strip clubs to begin with. Im not a rich athlete and I dont have to go to a strip club and pay some nasty hoe money to get some titties in my face, why would he.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I would just like to point out that the above post, with the bolded portion, was in reponse to my reply to this post:

All well and good but clearly, the post you are using as evidence of intent was not a statement that said he was suspended because he was in a strip club. If this is your reasoning, it's flawed. The original statement does not support that position. All it says is that being in Clubs is not going to get him back into the NFL. It says nothing about why he was suspended in the first place. It speaks more to the position of what I believe Goodell will view as acceptable for reinstatement consideration.

Sorry Theo, your way off base.

 

[sacase]

Yes, but he is scheduled to meet with Goodell on Friday in regards to any appeal etc.

I did not think he was suspended for going to a strip club. I'd appriciate it if you could just find any statement where I said he was, as opposed to fabricating one. I said that it is not going to be acceptable to the Commish for him to be frequenting these types of establishments and I believe that to be true, under his specific circumstances.

It's OK to admit you probably need to be enrolled in Evelyn Wood's Reading Dynamics Courses. I believe they are offered online.

Bro, what part of self imposed ban don't you get. He can still go and it won't affect his suspension one way or another. Godell just wants him to use a self imposed ban so he don't have to kick him out of the league.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Bro, what part of self imposed ban don't you get. He can still go and it won't affect his suspension one way or another. Godell just wants him to use a self imposed ban so he don't have to kick him out of the league.

The part that speaks to the first question out of Goodell's mouth. "When was the last time you were in a club?"

The fact that he asked this question specifically should tell you all that is needed. It is a sensative matter with the commish. Self imposed or not, it's still something that, IMO, would be of paramount importance in his evaluation of re-instatement. I mean, commen sense will tell you that this guy is going to get into more trouble if he keeps hanging out in clubs. The Commish is not going to stand for it. He won't allow the NFL to get a black eye of this kind of stuff, period.

IMO, it's one of those deals where you get a choice. You can say that you resigned or we can say that we fired you in the morning. Take your pick. PacMan can say it's self imposed but in reality, the Commish is watching and he's not going to allow it to play. Especailly now that the media is on board. You got club security reporting to NFL security that PacMan showed up at a club for crying out loud. People are watching. If this becomes a nightly report on ESPN, the Commish is going to do something about it and PacMan will suffer the consequences of it.

 

[sacase]

The part that speaks to the first question out of Goodell's mouth. "When was the last time you were in a club?"

The fact that he asked this question specifically should tell you all that is needed. It is a sensative matter with the commish. Self imposed or not, it's still something that, IMO, would be of paramount importance in his evaluation of re-instatement. I mean, commen sense will tell you that this guy is going to get into more trouble if he keeps hanging out in clubs. The Commish is not going to stand for it. He won't allow the NFL to get a black eye of this kind of stuff, period.

IMO, it's one of those deals where you get a choice. You can say that you resigned or we can say that we fired you in the morning. Take your pick. PacMan can say it's self imposed but in reality, the Commish is watching and he's not going to allow it to play. Especailly now that the media is on board. You got club security reporting to NFL security that PacMan showed up at a club for crying out loud. People are watching. If this becomes a nightly report on ESPN, the Commish is going to do something about it and PacMan will suffer the consequences of it.

Wow you must live in an altered reality. This is not a deal where you get a choice of being fired or quitting, its not even remotly close. I don't think Goddell wants to kick him out of the league. What he is saying is simply this. Look, I can't make you stay out of strip clubs, but you seem to find trouble there. Why don't you ban your self from them, because if you do get in trouble in one again, I will have to suspend you again or kick you out of the league. Its more like advice from a mentor.

Also Pac Man was not the one who said it was a self imposed ban, I think you are the one who needs to work on their reading comprehension skills. The fact of the matter is pacman's suspension has nothing to do with strip clubs it has to do with him staying out of trouble.

 

[sacase]

Name the last good thing to come from going to one?

The Lapdance I got, followed by the number that went with it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Wow you must live in an altered reality. This is not a deal where you get a choice of being fired or quitting, its not even remotly close. I don't think Goddell wants to kick him out of the league. What he is saying is simply this. Look, I can't make you stay out of strip clubs, but you seem to find trouble there. Why don't you ban your self from them, because if you do get in trouble in one again, I will have to suspend you again or kick you out of the league. Its more like advice from a mentor.

Also Pac Man was not the one who said it was a self imposed ban, I think you are the one who needs to work on their reading comprehension skills. The fact of the matter is pacman's suspension has nothing to do with strip clubs it has to do with him staying out of trouble.

Perhaps your correct. I live in a world where big business avoids bad publicity at all costs. Bad publicity can get a 20 year man fired. That's the world I live in. If that is an alternate reality, then OK. I don't believe it is but if that's what you think, OK.

In fact, I think Goodell is making ready to do just that. He is ready to kick PacMan and players just like him off the face of the NFL world. I don't think the discussion between Goodell and PacMan was anything like what your discribing. I think Goodell has the power to mandate the strip club thing if he so chooses. I think that if you get reporters reporting it on a regular basis, Goodell is going to do just that. It's been reported that the Strip Club thing was self imposed. You are the one who asked the question of, "what part of self imposed don't you get?" I guess the answer to that would be the part where you back track on it in your next post. Doesn't matter, it's irrelivant IMO. Self imposed or implied by the Commish, it means the same thing. This kid will kick himself out of the league if he continues with the clubs. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. Any man who would slam a womens head into a stage deserves to be written off, no questions asked. I'm not the Commish so it's not my call. However, I think your kidding yourself if you think this is going to be allowed to continue with this guy.

 

[sacase]

Perhaps your correct. I live in a world where big business avoids bad publicity at all costs. Bad publicity can get a 20 year man fired. That's the world I live in. If that is an alternate reality, then OK. I don't believe it is but if that's what you think, OK.

In fact, I think Goodell is making ready to do just that. He is ready to kick PacMan and players just like him off the face of the NFL world. I don't think the discussion between Goodell and PacMan was anything like what your discribing. I think Goodell has the power to mandate the strip club thing if he so chooses. I think that if you get reporters reporting it on a regular basis, Goodell is going to do just that. It's been reported that the Strip Club thing was self imposed. You are the one who asked the question of, "what part of self imposed don't you get?" I guess the answer to that would be the part where you back track on it in your next post. Doesn't matter, it's irrelivant IMO. Self imposed or implied by the Commish, it means the same thing. This kid will kick himself out of the league if he continues with the clubs. Wouldn't hurt my feelings at all. Any man who would slam a womens head into a stage deserves to be written off, no questions asked. I'm not the Commish so it's not my call. However, I think your kidding yourself if you think this is going to be allowed to continue with this guy.

Where did I back track? please show me. Pacman can go to the strip club as much as he wants, he can go every day of his suspension and as long as he doesn't get in trouble nothing is going to happen.

Face it dude, you said he cannot go to strip clubs and be in the NFL. you are completly wrong. He cannot contiue to get into trouble and be in the NFL. That is something different. I think you have something against strip clubs. Bad press is gained by getting into trouble not going to a frigging strip club.

 

[Verdict]

If you get in legal trouble at a strip club, it's probably a good idea to stay away from them... especially if you're hoping to get some lenience for the time you got in trouble at a strip club...

Playing in the NFL is a PRIVILEGE, not a right... and with that privilege comes certain responsibilities, one of the biggies being staying out of trouble with the law...

If Pac-Man thinks that going to strip clubs is more important to him than making a jillion dollars playing in the NFL, then he's welcome to take up residence in one of them... but don't come whinig to me when the league decides he no longer deserves the privilege of playing in the NFL...

I am not slamming the author of this post, just making an observation. Under the law "rights" are things that the law cannot be taken away, while "privileges" are things that can be taken away with less scritiny.

I have seen posts which say that he did not get suspended for going to a strip club. While I am sure that on paper that is the case, I feel certain that the Commish knowing he went factored into his decision. That is akin to throwing a skunk into a jury box and ordering them not to smell it. It likely had some effect, and the only person who knows how much is the Commish.

Let's call a spade a spade here. Pac Man's choice to go to a strip club likely had a MAJOR impact on his suspension. It was, in effect, Pac Man thumbing his nose at the Commish. It was him saying I'll do what I want and you can't stop me. The Commish is essentially saying, oh yeah, well, watch me do something about it and suspended him for a year, which is more severe than he would have gotten under the old Commish, for sure.

All of this talk about "privileges" is a bit of a red herring. In most states, driving a motor vehicle is considered a privilege, but if the state that issued a person's license just pulled it arbitrarily, that person would likely be squealing like a pig. The person that is losing his or her license probably depends on it, at least indirectly to make a living, by getting to and from work.

Even when a privilege is involved, they cannot generally be arbitrarily taken away. I am not saying the Commish arbitrarily took something away from Pac Man, or that he didn't deserve it. On the other hand, it is also clear that he is making an example out of Pac Man.

The more the Commish squeezes Pac Man's family jewels the greater the chance a court will intervene. If the Commish squeezes to hard, and loses, his powers are going to be curtailed by a court at a later date, which is going to be counterproductive to what is intending on accomplishing, which is to clean up the NFL.

The thing I don't quite understand is this. People give lip service to wanting the NFL to clean up its act, but is that really what we want. If Peyton Manning was the equivalent of Pac Man, would you want him to be QB of the Cowboys, if Tony Romo was no longer on the roster?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Where did I back track? please show me. Pacman can go to the strip club as much as he wants, he can go every day of his suspension and as long as he doesn't get in trouble nothing is going to happen.

Face it dude, you said he cannot go to strip clubs and be in the NFL. you are completly wrong. He cannot contiue to get into trouble and be in the NFL. That is something different. I think you have something against strip clubs. Bad press is gained by getting into trouble not going to a frigging strip club.

You said that it was self imposed and then you said that PacMan never made the statement that it was self imposed. Has to be one or the other.

Sure PacMan can go to clubs. We will see if he can go to clubs every night and still be in the NFL. I stand by my original statement. It's not going to be tollerated IMO. The truth of the matter is that you don't know one way or the other. Truth be told, none of us do but, it's bad for the game. Anything that impacts sales is bad for the game. You may wish to believe that it's not going to impact PacMan if he is hanging out in Clubs but history doesn't support your position. "As long as he stays out of trouble" is like saying you can't get pregnant if you under 18. OK then. PacMan is trouble and if he's in clubs, it's going to find him. Goodell knows this. If you wish to believe that Goodell played nice with PacMan and gave him the father knows best speach, that's fine. I don't believe it. One of those guys walked into that meeting with his hat in his hands and it wasn't Roger Goodell. PacMan needs the NFL, the NFL doesn't need PacMan. That's the real truth. If PacMan is in clubs every night, we're going to know about it. If that's the case, it won't take long. this situation will solve itself.

 

[sacase]

You said that it was self imposed and then you said that PacMan never made the statement that it was self imposed. Has to be one or the other.

Sure PacMan can go to clubs. We will see if he can go to clubs every night and still be in the NFL. I stand by my original statement. It's not going to be tollerated IMO. The truth of the matter is that you don't know one way or the other. Truth be told, none of us do but, it's bad for the game. Anything that impacts sales is bad for the game. You may wish to believe that it's not going to impact PacMan if he is hanging out in Clubs but history doesn't support your position. "As long as he stays out of trouble" is like saying you can't get pregnant if you under 18. OK then. PacMan is trouble and if he's in clubs, it's going to find him. Goodell knows this. If you wish to believe that Goodell played nice with PacMan and gave him the father knows best speach, that's fine. I don't believe it. One of those guys walked into that meeting with his hat in his hands and it wasn't Roger Goodell. PacMan needs the NFL, the NFL doesn't need PacMan. That's the real truth. If PacMan is in clubs every night, we're going to know about it. If that's the case, it won't take long. this situation will solve itself.

I find this to funny that you tell another poster to work on their reading comprehension skills but yours are beyond pathetic. Roger Goddell asked Adam Jones to put a self imposed ban on going to strip clubs. Jones never made the statement, he was asked to do it. One statement is not dependant on the other. Please enroll in the class you directed the other poster to go to.

I don't knwo what life experience you have had but I have had my *** handed to me by my commander then 5 minutes later he is mentoring me. It is possible. Some people don't respond to bein chewed out. to be an effective leader you have to know how to talk to and motivate people in different ways. I think Goddell has an understanding of this.

You are right, we don't know what was said. We do know that Goddell ask Jones to ban himself. That is not up for debate. You are wrong, just face it. If he goes to strip clubs he will not be face any punishment. If he gets in Trouble ANYWHERE he will face punishment.

 

[DLCassidy]

Here are some things from this thread I agree with:

1) there are good things that come from visiting strip clubs
2) Pacman Jones is an imbecile.
3) If Pac Man visits strip clubs during his suspension (see # 2) it won't cause him to be booted from the league or add to his suspension as long as he avoids trouble (that part is hard to believe though).