Pat McQuistan challenge Kyle Kosier for the starting left guard spot?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that example only works if both the warrant and product are going to something

that makes no sense

but both give you a right to drive on the highway, right?

:laugh2: wow, you do know due process only applies to a court of law right, that ensures whether you go to jail or not? in order for Goodell to have ignored due process, means he would have had to lock-up PacMan, due process does not apply in this instance, it can't, so you would still be wrong

you discredit yourself everytime you put your fingers to the key-pad

a trial is part of due process.
habeus corpus is an act by a judge to trigger the trial.

Sorry summer but they are not the same thing.

If you go to thesaurus.com and put in due process you get this and youll notice habeus corpus is not there:

amends, appeal, authority, authorization, charter, code, compensation, consideration, constitutionality, correction, credo, creed, decree, due process, equity, evenness, fair play, fair treatment, fairness, hearing, honesty, impartiality, integrity, judicatory, judicature, justness, law, legal process, legality, legalization, legitimacy, litigation, penalty, reasonableness, recompense, rectitude, redress, reparation, review, right, rule, sanction, sentence, square deal*, truth

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

your little argument w/ Adam, and I meant you run around in circles, sorry

okay summer exactly which argument did i make was circular?

you dont even know what circular logic is.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

a trial is part of due process.
habeus corpus is an act by a judge to trigger the trial.

a judge doesn't trigger habeus corpus, a lawyer does, all cases are brought to the judge

Sorry summer but they are not the same thing.

yes they are

If you go to thesaurus.com and put in due process you get this and youll notice habeus corpus is not there:

amends, appeal, authority, authorization, charter, code, compensation, consideration, constitutionality, correction, credo, creed, decree, due process, equity, evenness, fair play, fair treatment, fairness, hearing, honesty, impartiality, integrity, judicatory, judicature, justness, law, legal process, legality, legalization, legitimacy, litigation, penalty, reasonableness, recompense, rectitude, redress, reparation, review, right, rule, sanction, sentence, square deal*, truth

it's still all apart of ensuring due process

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

and no summer due process is the process by which guilt of a crime is determined. the punishment is subsequent.

Goodell by not waiting for the court to suspend someone is saying that someone is guilty of something they are accused of before a trial.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

okay summer exactly which argument did i make was circular?

you dont even know what circular logic is.

it brings up a good Seinfeld episode

Elaine: "it's not a new number, it's just changed, it's different"

but I meant that you run around in circles

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

a judge doesn't trigger habeus corpus, a lawyer does, all cases are brought to the judge



yes they are



it's still all apart of ensuring due process

en·sure(n-shr)
tr.v. en·sured, en·sur·ing, en·sures
To make sure or certain; insure

that does not mean equals or is the same thing as.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

and no summer due process is the process by which guilt of a crime is determined. the punishment is subsequent.

which is...A TRIAL! that's circular logic right there

and not all trials end up in a punishment, because not everyone is proven guilty

Goodell by not waiting for the court to suspend someone is saying that someone is guilty of something they are accused of before a trial.

Goodell isn't saying he's guilty, he's saying that PacMan broke the CBA regarding player conduct, I still see that you can't wrap your head around the fact that you don't need to be convicted of a crime in order to be liable to some sort of disciplinary action by the league

due process only applies to a court of law, only the state can violate that right by locking someone up and never bringing them to trial

 

[Bob Sacamano]

en·sure(n-shr)
tr.v. en·sured, en·sur·ing, en·sures
To make sure or certain; insure

that does not mean equals or is the same thing as.

• Habeas corpus ad deliberandum et recipiendum, a writ for bringing an accused from a different county into a court in the place where a crime had been committed for purposes of trial, or more literally to return holding the body for purposes of “deliberation and receipt” of a decision;
• Habeas corpus ad faciendum et recipiendum, also called habeas corpus cum causa, a writ of a superior court to a custodian to return with the body being held by the order of a lower court "with reasons", for the purpose of “receiving” the decision of the superior court and of “doing” what it ordered;
• Habeas corpus ad prosequendum, a writ ordering return with a prisoner for the purpose of “prosecuting” him before the court;
• Habeas corpus ad respondendum, a writ ordering return in order to allowing the prisoner to “answer” to new proceedings before the court;
• Habeas corpus ad satisfaciendum, a writ ordering return with the body of a prisoner for “satisfaction” or execution of a judgment of the issuing court; and
• Habeas corpus ad testificandum, a writ ordering return with the body of a prisoner for the purposes of “testifying”.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

which is...A TRIAL! that's circular logic right there

and not all trials end up in a punishment, because not everyone is proven guilty



Goodell isn't saying he's guilty, he's saying that PacMan broke the CBA regarding player conduct, I still see that you can't wrap your head around the fact that you don't need to be convicted of a crime in order to be liable to some sort of disciplinary action by the league

due process only applies to a court of law, only the state can violate that right by locking someone up and never bringing them to trial

goodell is punishing them because he thinks they are guilty of that which they are being accused. if he thought they were innocent he wouldnt be suspending them. by determining guilt on his own he is bypassing due process of law. i realize that as a corporate entity he is contractually able to do it but that does not mean he is not doing it.

a trial is only one portion of due process. indictment by grand jusry, double jeopardy and selfincrimination also are portions of due process. so in truth habeus corpus only guarantees a portion of due process.

anyway im done hijacking this thread and i apologize to everyone who wants to stay on topic.

 

[theogt]

It wasnt an issue of you forming your opinion but rather a perspective on mine. I happen to agree with the coaching staff nothing more and nothing less. The comment on keeping up with the conversationw as nice but made little sense.

Right, but it didn't make sense to say what you said when I was referring to how I form my opinion.

I saw those clips from the Seattle game that you probably factor pretty heavily in your view of Gurode but while you saw a guy that couldnt make blocks in space I saw Jones not setting up his blocks and making his cuts before the block was made.

Like I said at the time, those types of plays by Gurode happened throughout the season. It was a constant problem for Gurode. As for the Jones comment, I don't recall too many of them having anything to do with Jones. Heck, many were passing plays. So I don't know where this Jones comment comes in. I can put up plenty of film on Jones having horrible plays, though.

watch out everyone, theogt has spoken, it's his opinion that counts and nothing else

Oh, please. I'm just expressing my opinion. It's what we do here. Otherwise, there'd not be much to talk about. For the most part, I use plenty of examples and explanations to back mine up, so piss off.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

goodell is punishing them because he thinks they are guilty of that which they are being accused. if he thought they were innocent he wouldnt be suspending them. by determining guilt on his own he is bypassing due process of law. i realize that as a corporate entity he is contractually able to do it but that does not mean he is not doing it.

I can't read minds, but in the CBA it states that you don't have to be convicted of a crime to be liable to disciplinary action

a trial is only one portion of due process. indictment by grand jusry, double jeopardy and selfincrimination also are portions of due process. so in truth habeus corpus only guarantees a portion of due process.

anyway im done hijacking this thread and i apologize to everyone who wants to stay on topic.

true, there are many parts to due process, but violating due process is stripping away the 1st part, which is trial, because everything else is included in, or comes after a trial

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Right, but it didn't make sense to say what you said when I was referring to how I form my opinion.

Like I said at the time, those types of plays by Gurode happened throughout the season. It was a constant problem for Gurode. As for the Jones comment, I don't recall too many of them having anything to do with Jones. Heck, many were passing plays. So I don't know where this Jones comment comes in. I can put up plenty of film on Jones having horrible plays, though.

i just remeber running plays where Gurode chips and then goes to the second level and jones cuts too early and gives the defender the angle he needs to pursue and make the tackle.

as for playing in space in pass protection i guess your talking about blitz pickup or something and i dont recall any of that.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

I can't read minds, but in the CBA it states that you don't have to be convicted of a crime to be liable to disciplinary action



true, there are many parts to due process, but violating due process is stripping away the 1st part, which is trial, because everything else is included in, or comes after a trial

punishmetn without trial is a violation of due process, yes but so is taking someone to trail without an indictment from a grandjury first as is forcing someone to incriminate themselves. as is indicting someone for the same crime.

that still doesnt matter becasue something ensuring something much less insuring part of something does not mean that is is that something.

summer im done the last word is yours.

 

[theogt]

i just remeber running plays where Gurode chips and then goes to the second level and jones cuts too early and gives the defender the angle he needs to pursue and make the tackle.

as for playing in space in pass protection i guess your talking about blitz pickup or something and i dont recall any of that.

Well, it's all on tape if you'd like to refresh your memory.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Well, it's all on tape if you'd like to refresh your memory.

sure if you have a link handy.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

punishmetn without trial is a violation of due process, yes but so is taking someone to trail without an indictment from a grandjury first as is forcing someone to incriminate themselves. as is indicting someone for the same crime.

but Goodell is doing none of this, so...

that still doesnt matter becasue something ensuring something much less insuring part of something does not mean that is is that something.

summer im done the last word is yours.

ok, guess we're done then

 

[Angus]

but Goodell is doing none of this, so...



ok, guess we're done then

Thank goodness, since it has had nothing to do with McQuistan.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Thank goodness, since it has had nothing to do with McQuistan.

ok, next topic

did Roy Oswalt really shoot JFK?

 

[5Stars]

ok, next topic

did Roy Oswalt really shoot JFK?

Did Danny White really sucker punch Staubach?



:laugh2:

 

[Bob Sacamano]

Did Danny White really sucker punch Staubach?



:laugh2:

damn you

damn you all to hell!