Penn State Head Coach Joe Paterno FIRED *SuperMerge*

[TellerMorrow34]

There aren't general rules of conduct in the NCAA? I have no idea. PSU enabled a pedophile, allowed him to attend practices while ushering future potential victims.

It's a joke for the NCAA to do nothing about that, while putting sanctions on schools for insignificant recruiting violations.

Exactly.

To me this is the best, biggest, and most deserving case for giving a program the Death Penalty.

You shut a program down for cheating on recruiting and drugs and BS but THIS is the kind of thing you shut a program down for.

Their AD, their Legendary Coach, and a GA, who did his entire career on the PSU staff AFTER he witnessed what he did and none of them, not a one of them, did a damn thing to stop it from continuing to happen. They all turned a blind eye and were more than happy to sweep it out of their minds in order to save the University embarrassment.


I know it will sound harsh, and it will be thought of as mean to all these guys who didn't have anything to do with this, but I'd be all for giving PSU the Death Penalty.

Send a clear, firm, strong message that actions of this disgusting nature will not be covered up, will not be swept under the rug, and it will not be tolerated if a University does so.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

They initially stated that there were 8 victims. They then pleaded with any other victims to come forward and provided a phone number for them to call. There are reports that now up to 20 victims have come forward. They recently had an official *9th* victim come forward.

The 2nd Mile program was developed by Sandusky in 1977. The first victim was in contact with Sandusky back in '95-ish. So, almost 20 years unaccounted for.

They'll likely never get all of the victims.








YR

That's a sad and sobering thought to keep this in perspective. No telling how many there were before, no telling how many won't, or can't, come forward after this was known and basically nothing was done to stop it.

 

[Randy White]

You can't suspend someone who isn't working for you. .

Sandusky wasn't the defensive coordinator in 1998 ?

 

[MichaelWinicki]

only the grad student had the chance to stop the violence that was happening.

Yeah maybe, but maybe not.

One of the things that could come to light even more is how the 1998 incident was handled or not handled.

If there was a legtimate investigation back then, the various atrocities that occurred during the 90's (and dare I say potentially the 80's and the late 70's) may very well have been uncovered.

The result is that the whole sorid mess could have ended well before the turn of the century.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

One of the things I've been wondering is what the NCAA will do... If anything.

 

[TNCowboy]

Sundusky had nothing to do with the athletic department or football program. The NCAA deals with athletics.

Nonsense. Athletic department employees enabled a child molester for a decade. It has everything to do with the athletic program, from a graduate assistant up to the president of the university.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

2 questions, I thought I read he was banned from bringing children on campus, not banned himself, correct?

and second, even if that was enforced, would common sense not say that he'll just do it some where else? Why would anyone with knowledge of the 2002 event be satisfied with that outcome?

Exactly. A great point and one that can't be explained away by "He's old and didn't have the power."

Reading PSU message boards many said it was obvious that Joe Pa had cooled to Sandusky in '99 and that he had very little of anything to say to him or at his retirement banquet other than short generic quips. I'm sure he knew. Since no charges were filed I think Joe Pa demonstrated the man he was known to be by cutting ties with what many considered the best assistant coach in the business...

I think in the 2002 incident, he was so disassociated with Sandusky he reported it to his superiors (who REALLY dropped the ball) and gave the whole situation the Pontius Pilate treatment...

Being the figurehead of PSU, he is now taking a fall for not reporting it to police...

As he should. I don't care how disassociated with Sandusky he was he did the bare minimum and did nothing more. He checked nothing more. He followed up on nothing.

Meanwhile this person, who he's been given an eye witness account of anal sex with a 10 year old, is walking around at practices, working out in the facilities, and working closely with children in a charity program that Joe was on the board of.

And yet he still didn't think it approperiate to check up on these things and see what had been investigated, what was being done?

Disgusting. The worst case of turning the blind eye that I can possibly think of.

Paterno is a 75 year old man, and a football coach. Not the judge, jury, and executioner.

If someone is banned from campus, or banned from bringing kids onto campus, its up the the university to enforce it.. not the football coach who has nothing to do with Sandusky at this point.

From the campus, yes. From football practices, from being in the work out facilities, I believe Joe would have MORE THAN ENOUGH power and authority to do something about that and yet he did NOTHING.

Why would police and child protective services hear him admit to them both that he showered with a young boy in the locker room in 1998 and just say "Don't do it again.. now move along, sir." ??

Makes no sense.. none of this does.

Absolutely agree with you 110% here. They dropped the ball as well, as did several others in this. It's not just Joe Paterno who dropped the ball, there is a multitude of people who did. None of these people did what they should have been doing in any of their respective positions.

And it keeps getting more and more asinine.

How so? By turning a blind eye, by doing no follow ups, by saying nothing and doing nothing about him being at practices, in the work out facilities, working in a charity that Joe had his hands in as well he basically enabled him.

I know that wasn't the intent of Joe, by any means, as I'm sure he just didn't want to know or be part of any of it and just wanted it to go away in his mind but by sitting by, and doing absolutely nothing beyond the bare minimum he had to do by reporting it to his boss, he allowed this sick person to have complete access to places that had been allowing him to find, and rape, innocent children.

So, in your opinion, what more should Joe have done, and how much of an effect did he have on the entire situation?

He had a HUGE effect on the situation by doing what amounts to basically zip.

He could have easily picked up a phone and asked the local police department if they were ever contacted on this situation and was there anything he could do to help with the investigation if they were aware.

He didn't have to put much effort, even at 75 years old, to find out what was being done, if anything, with the situation. It was pretty clear, since the guy was allowed to continue to be there for YEARS after this that nothing was done by the University.

And yet some how that was just fine with Joe. He was content to sit back and just turn a blind eye to it.

Football program.. he was 1A.

Outisde the football program.. he didn't control pretty much anything.

What decisions was he making outside the football program? Do tell former Collegian writer?

That's fine. Are practices part of the football program?

Are the workout facilities part of the football program?


We all know that the answer to both of these are yes, and yes the facilities are for other sports and students as well but I'm quite sure Joe would have plenty of authority in that area, and he did nothing to keep this disgusting individual from having access to both of those things.


The fact that Sandusky continued to have access to those places tells anyone paying attention that Joe knew not only that the University had done basically nothing to Jerry but he knew it first hand becaus the guy was coming around, hanging out, in places that there is no way Joe can say " I didn't know he was allowed there or had been there."

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Nonsense. Athletic department employees enabled a child molester for a decade. It has everything to do with the athletic program, from a graduate assistant up to the president of the university.

I couldn't agree more. Every single one of them took the stance of simply looking the other way, don't ask don't tell, sort of crap that allowed this to continue for years upon years.

The NCAA should come down HARD on PSU for this.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

The end of a legacy.

And the beginning of a completely different, and very ugly, one for him.

He'll long be remembered (at least in my opinion this is what will happen) as the coach who turned his head and did as little as he possibly could about the situation.

And frankly due to how little he did, and was satisfied with how little he did, he deserves to have that over shadow anything he did on the football field.

He was the "official" head coach, but in truth, he was little more than a mascot in the end.

Even mascot's can do the right thing and put some actual effort into seeing that this situation was investigated properly.

He did nothing.

only the grad student had the chance to stop the violence that was happening.

He had the best chance to stop it in the middle of a single act.

He's not the only person who could have done something about it going forward. They all failed miserably.

 

[TNCowboy]

Exactly.

To me this is the best, biggest, and most deserving case for giving a program the Death Penalty.

You shut a program down for cheating on recruiting and drugs and BS but THIS is the kind of thing you shut a program down for.

Their AD, their Legendary Coach, and a GA, who did his entire career on the PSU staff AFTER he witnessed what he did and none of them, not a one of them, did a damn thing to stop it from continuing to happen. They all turned a blind eye and were more than happy to sweep it out of their minds in order to save the University embarrassment.


I know it will sound harsh, and it will be thought of as mean to all these guys who didn't have anything to do with this, but I'd be all for giving PSU the Death Penalty.

Send a clear, firm, strong message that actions of this disgusting nature will not be covered up, will not be swept under the rug, and it will not be tolerated if a University does so.

Tennessee's former basketball coach, Bruce Pearl, was fired - basically, UT was forced to fire him by the NCAA - for having a barbeque at his home for some recruits. To my knowledge, he didn't inappropriately touch any of said recruts.....

Technically, the University fired him, but did so because the NCAA warned them that santions would be significantly worse if Pearl was retained. Further, Pearl is basically blacklisted by the NCAA: any program that hires him in the next 3 years is subject to ncaa penalty.

Pearl had numerous other violations, including lying to the NCAA, but the straw that broke the camel's back was a barbeque. A barbeque. I don't for one second defend Pearl. He was a cheat in my eyes, and I'm glad he's gone, and I wouldn't for a second argue that the NCAA was too harsh on him or UT. But it's almost comical to think that the NCAA would take the moral high ground in ousting Pearl, but would be silent re: this disgusting situation. It will be interesting to see what if anything the NCAA does.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Think of the victims and victims families through this whole thing. Try to put yourself in their shoes.

If you have been a person who has been molested as a youth or if you have someone close to you that has been through something like that...I think you would see things a great deal differently then some that seem to defend Paterno in some shape or form.

If you were the victim or a loved one of the victims...do you honestly think you would be ok with Paterno for just reporting the incident but never going any further with it after seeing the culprit of these acts continue to be around the football team of the HC?

Think about that for a moment.

What if your child was in school. A teacher found out another teacher was molesting/raping your child. Instead of stopping the teacher from doing that, the teacher that saw it goes and tells the principal and the principal tells the head of the local board of education.

So the teacher that molested/raped the student "retires". You don't know if he was forced out but instead of being "fired", the official reason the teacher left is because he retired. That is another aspect that some seem to be missing here...they let this guy go down as retiring, not fired.

So after the person "retires" and a little time passes you happen to know that the "retired" teacher comes to the school on occasion and brings kids to that school to see sporting events. Sometimes takes the students out on the practice field with the team, sometimes takes the students into the locker rooms.

Why would the principal allow this to happen. Why would he not step up and say...Hey, this guy should not be here, he is a person that has been accused of molesting a child, has admitted to it, "retired" and yet here he is on occasions with young kids he is showing around.

Would you not think the Principal needs to do more than just report it to his superiors. Would you think you would tell him to stay the hell away from the school and would you not go above your superiors heads if you saw him at your school on multiple occasions?

Think about that...Stop and really really think about that. If you are objective and truthful with yourself and your kid was one of those victims of molestation/rape and you seen the principal did nothing beyond the initial reporting...you would be absolutely FURIOUS! You would be mad at the person that molested/raped your child. You would be mad at the other teacher that saw it but did not stop the physical act at the time, you would be mad at the Head of the board of education for not doing more and you darn sure would be mad at the principal because after everything was done he still saw that same teacher coming to the school with young students on multiple occasions.

Another thing to think about. You may have reported it to your superiors and school police at the time. If that happened and the guy never came back around it might be a little easier to digest and forgive for not going to the real police. But to see that guy coming back around on multiple occasions bringing young people yet not report it the the real police and tell him to stay the hell away....you are morally culpable and enabling him even if it is indirectly.

How many people here, if they knew a guy had a past of child molestion/rape, would allow one of these guys to show up to your work place bringing kids with him and not report him? Seriously think about that.


This to me is like you knowing someone is a sexual predator, is on a sexual predator list because of doing things with kids, yet you see him come around your area on multiple occasions with young children (that are not his) and do not report it. You are morally responsible for reporting that, might not be legally responsible but you darn sure are morally responsible for reporting it.

Think of this.

Joe reported it to the campus police and his superiors. The coach in question "retires"...not officially fired, i mean really do you let this guy leave like that, an admitted child molester gets the courtesy of being labeled retired instead of fired.

Now later after all of this Joe has to have known and seen this coach on campus with children around him. There is just no feasible way he could have not known or seen him with children.

At that point he has to go beyond just the one time reporting of this individual. At that time he should tell the authority (chain of command) and call the police (not campus police) and told the individual to stay the hell away.

He did not because the guy came back multiple times.

At that point Joe is morally responsible for some of these things. If Joe had acted more after the intial reports and after this guy continued to come back to campus with these kids...it may have prevented a few other kids from being molested/raped.

Joe is responsible for some of this. Might not be legally responsible but he is morally responsible at the very least and it is hard to argue that if he had taken this further it probably would have prevented a few of these kids from being molested or raped.

 

[JBond]

Of couse they fired Joe Pa. You can not allow him to stay. Joe Pa allowed a predator to use the school and his facilites to rape children. He knew in 1998 and he was told again in 2002. To defend his actions is just crazy.

He violated federal and state reporting laws. But beyond that he violated the moral code of our society.

The pathetically stupid college kids rioting were never bent over in the shower and raped by Joe's buddy.

I suppose there will be a couple here that want to bury their head in the sand and pretend old Joe was just too stupid to understand what was happening even though he admitted to knowing....well....not sure what else it would take to convince you what Joe did was 100% wrong and more children were raped because he failed to do the right thing.

I hope everyone involved, from the president on down, ends up in jail for what they allowed to take place over and over and over.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

He admitted it to local police and a state welfare agent. Its about as cut and dry as it gets man. They simply told him not to do it again, and no charges were ever filed. Its ridiculous.

I'm not a lawyer or police officer, but the point I'm trying to get across is sometimes confessions that aren't in writing get thrown out. Sometimes even written confessions get thrown out. So I know that a DA will be very reluctant to press charges when all there is, is an eavesdropped confession and the word of one boy.

It's sad, but likely true.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

To me this is the best, biggest, and most deserving case for giving a program the Death Penalty.

I don't see why, everyone who had anything to do with this is being fired. Some will be going to jail. Punishing the kids on the team, some of whom are even younger than the victim's and punishing a coaching staff that likely had no idea of any incident would serve no purpose.

Not that it would make up for it, but the best thing Penn State could do at this point is just admit negligence and bring out their check book to anyone who steps foward and can prove they were victimized by Sandusky. That will atleast give the victim's some sense of closure.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

Another thing I would like to touch on.

Do you really want to be someone that deflects this situation by saying other schools have violated things and have been fired for other things?

IMO it does not help the cause at all.

We are talking about some that does not even come close to children being violated in such a terrible manner.

People deflect like this in arguments and debates all the time and normally it is not that big of deal, just a part of arguing. But when the topic is child molestation and rape one would think you would temper that line or form of argument because it looks so bad.

Just something to consider.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

McQueary could've helped 1 boy, Paterno could've helped several boys.

I find it incredible that McQueary, somebody that Paterno was supposed to have taught things like character, toughness, courage and integrity...did not stop the rape. And that instead of going to the proper authorities...he went to Paterno. And then he gave a watered down version of the events. There was no character, toughness, courage and integrity involved in what McQueary did. Probably because he wasn't taught those things from Paterno.

To me, Paterno looks less and less like 'a God' and more like an ignorant, oblivious, and unevolved football coach.

All of this is what happen when a sports program and a coach become bigger than the school. The janitors were afraid to come forward because they were afraid to lose their job.

I don't think it makes them right.

But, had they not been afraid to lose their job...they would have come forward.

Had McQueary not been afraid of the possible implications of turning in a legendary Sandusky...he probably would have come forward.

I believe most here would have done things differently. Personally, if I lost my job because I notified the proper authorities that I saw a kid being molested, I could at least live with myself knowing I did the right thing and I would make no apologies for it. I think most people feel the same way.









YR

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I believe most here would have done things differently. Personally, if I lost my job because I notified the proper authorities that I saw a kid being molested, I could at least live with myself knowing I did the right thing and I would make no apologies for it. I think most people feel the same way.









YR

Not only would we make no apologies for it, I would like to think most here would make sure the world knew about what happened and why we were fired. Maybe go so far as to sue the university but at the very least I would report it to the proper authorities (the real police) and reported it to the press.

If the proper authorities did not do something about it...I am sure the press would report on it and I bet money things would start happening after that because nobody likes to be roasted in the press and court of public opinion.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Very well made points Brain.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Another thing I would like to touch on.

Do you really want to be someone that deflects this situation by saying other schools have violated things and have been fired for other things?

IMO it does not help the cause at all.

We are talking about some that does not even come close to children being violated in such a terrible manner.

People deflect like this in arguments and debates all the time and normally it is not that big of deal, just a part of arguing. But when the topic is child molestation and rape one would think you would temper that line or form of argument because it looks so bad.

Just something to consider.

Instead of holding a vigil for the victims, Penn State students held a rally on Tuesday night and then rioted on Wednesday night.

So, does it really surprise anybody that Paterno's blind supporters would deflect the blame to other schools who had rules violations?

I also think they need to stop referring to it as a 'sex scandal.' It was a rape and torture scandal. Maybe that would give some of the Joe Pa. supporters some better perspective. But, I doubt it.







YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Not only would we make no apologies for it, I would like to think most here would make sure the world knew about what happened and why we were fired. Maybe go so far as to sue the university but at the very least I would report it to the proper authorities (the real police) and reported it to the press.

If the proper authorities did not do something about it...I am sure the press would report on it and I bet money things would start happening after that because nobody likes to be roasted in the press and court of public opinion.

That and I'm tired of hearing about Joe Pa's library and such. If you were raped and tortured, would you care about a library?








YR