Penn State Head Coach Joe Paterno FIRED *SuperMerge*

[Cajuncowboy]

You really should stop at this point.

When Sandusky continues to come on campus with children and nothing is done and Joe does not go and do something about it.

Canjun I honestly believe if this same circumstance happened at a different school where you had no ties to it, never met the coach and so on, you would be singing a completely different tune.

Joe himself says he should have done more. I think you yourself said he should have done more in past posts.

To completely to argue about things and basically call people stupid because they don't agree with your point of view only makes you look bad.

This actually goes against what I have seen many times from you in the past concerning other various topics over the years.

I think the only reason you are so vigorous in your defense of Joe is because you went to Penn State and you have met the man.

I could understand if he reported it and Sandusky never returned to campus.

However he did return to campus multiple times with children. At that point you just have to stop trying to defend Joe and acting like he did all that he could.

You don't let some child molester come around on campus with children over and not do something more.

I am only defending him with respect to his actions in 2002. I know the man and I know he isn't going to allow this if he knew there was a threat. He wouldn't do that.

If for some reason it comes out he knew about 1998, then as I said, that changes everything.

For those not knowing the full situation, Paterno was not as friendly with Sandusky as some would have you think after the 1999 retirement and prior to it.

Sandusky was openly lobbying for the HC position nd there were trustees who wanted Joe to go because some of the teams were under performing.

Paterno believed Sadusky was undermining his authority and that may have been the reason he told Sandusky he wouldn't be the HC there.

Do I know that for a fact, no. But I know about the relationship being very chilly after that. And it may be a reason why Paterno wasn't all that concerned with Sandusky going forward on a personal basis.

I have a friend who is in the media back in PA and and he is going to call me this afternoon. I can't wait to pick his brain on this some because he covered Penn State until last season.

 

[Concord]

I am also baffled by Cajun...

Very out of character for him based on past discussions.

You do not allow a predator free reign. To pretend Joe Pa was completely powerless to do something is less than naive. It borders on .....never mind I like cajun and think he will come around with a little time.

He's blinded by loyalty to Penn St and Paterno.

He's not being rational...and we all know damn well as he does if he would admit the truth that if it were his kids being raped...or even if this had happened at a different school...he would be singing a whole new tune.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

I am also baffled by Cajun...

Very out of character for him based on past discussions.

You do not allow a predator free reign. To pretend Joe Pa was completely powerless to do something is less than naive. It borders on .....never mind I like cajun and think he will come around with a little time.

It's because I know things that about the guy that no one on this board knows. Again, I will wait and see before I crucify the guy. I will turn on him in an instant if I find out that he knew anything about the 1998 incident. That is why I am anxious to talk to my friend who was covering Penn State.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

If it's true he hugged the kid naked in the shower that's a bit differen't. Like you, I'm not sure if that is actually illegal, but it damn sure should be.



Maybe it should, but law enforcement can't charge people on what should be, only what is.

YES IT IS ILLEGAL.

Both having a child expose themselves for your sexual gratification or exposing your self to a child for your sexual gratification are considered child sexual abuse.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

If it's true he hugged the kid naked in the shower that's a bit differen't. Like you, I'm not sure if that is actually illegal, but it damn sure should be.



Maybe it should, but law enforcement can't charge people on what should be, only what is.

It's technically against the law. It's been posted here.

However, Sandusky was a legendary and well respected coach with a squeeky clean record at the time. I think the DA wanted a crime more severe than bear hugging a kid naked because he probably thought they would never find him guilty in Sandusky's backyard.








YR

 

[Yakuza Rich]

I at least understand Cajun's position now.

I still don't agree with him, basing it on the 2002 actions alone. But, I understand his position.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I have no doubt in my mind that more evidence will come forward that will show that Paterno knew back as far as 1998. I think it shows it already, I just think more evidence will show it beyond a shadow of a doubt.







YR

 

[JBond]

If it's true he hugged the kid naked in the shower that's a bit differen't. Like you, I'm not sure if that is actually illegal, but it damn sure should be.



Maybe it should, but law enforcement can't charge people on what should be, only what is.

When he was busted the first time in the shower, he called the mother and apologized from my understanding. That was also the time I thought he and the boy met with coach Joe Pa and shortly after that Sandusky "retired". I wonder if any money changed hands regarding the incident with the kid. I also thought it was not only a hug but genital fondling and oral sex. I may be off on the timeline. The indictment mentioned both.

 

[Stautner]

If it comes out that Joe Pa knew of the 98' incident when he was informed of the 02' incident, then there's no defending him at that point. If the Cops won't do anything, go to the Press. Even if you just make it harder for him to operate, you can atleast say you did everything you could.

If he knew of 98', then seeing him on campus with children after the 02' event (at some point he saw him) should've made him do more than turn away.

Agreed. This is a big key regarding how Paterno should be viewed in this incident. I can understand a bent toward not believing his friend would be capable of such horrendous acts, but if he allowed the 2002 incident to be covered up while having full knowledge of the 1998 incident, Paterno deserves to go down in shame.

Cajon the problem I have with Joe not knowing about the 1998 incident, is that it was "too close to home" for him not to know.

Here Sandusky was his #1 coach.

Joe was his immediate supervisor. And being his immediate supervisor I can't see him not being informed that his #1 coach, and possible successor was in deep doo-doo.

I read in another article a quote from a former player "That Joe even knew when someone missed class".

I just can't fathom him not knowing about the 1998 incident. Especially under the light of Sandusky being informed shortly thereafter that he was not going to be Joe's successor and subsequently "retired".

I agree it's pretty tough to believe Paterno didn't have some knowledge of this. It will be interesting to see what comes out.

 

[Eric_Boyer]

It's because I know things that about the guy that no one on this board knows. Again, I will wait and see before I crucify the guy. I will turn on him in an instant if I find out that he knew anything about the 1998 incident. That is why I am anxious to talk to my friend who was covering Penn State.

actually you don't know things. You formed an opinion based on a personal relationship, which is a far cry from knowing him.

there are people that felt they knew Sandusky from similar personal interactions and couldn't believe he would do what he did.

 

[Stautner]

YES IT IS ILLEGAL.

Both having a child expose themselves for your sexual gratification or exposing your self to a child for your sexual gratification are considered child sexual abuse.

How do you prove that taking a shower in a community shower is for "sexual gratification" rather than just to get clean? You are speaking out of emotion rather than logic.

 

[Concord]

Artist paints over Sandusky in State College mural

...He wanted to wait for the legal process to run its course before making a decision with the mural but was prompted to remove the mural after he received an email from an alleged victim's mother...



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188605-100.stm

 

[Stautner]

When he was busted the first time in the shower, he called the mother and apologized from my understanding. That was also the time I thought he and the boy met with coach Joe Pa and shortly after that Sandusky "retired". I wonder if any money changed hands regarding the incident with the kid. I also thought it was not only a hug but genital fondling and oral sex. I may be off on the timeline. The indictment mentioned both.

If there was genital fondling then clearly that is against the law. Not sure how the police could have dropped it if that occurred unless both the child and Sandusky denied it, in which case where would the info come from that it happened?

I think it was the janitor who said he saw the oral sex, not the 1998 incident.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

When he was busted the first time in the shower, he called the mother and apologized from my understanding. That was also the time I thought he and the boy met with coach Joe Pa and shortly after that Sandusky "retired". I wonder if any money changed hands regarding the incident with the kid. I also thought it was not a hug but genital fondling and oral sex. I may be off on the timeline.

It was a bear hug in 1998. Sandusky's pattern of 'testing' the boys to see how far they would let him go.

In '02, McQueary saw him anal raping a boy.

McQueary told Paterno that it was 'fondling' (Paterno said fondling).

McQueary then states he went to Curley and Schultz and told them that it was actually anal rape.

Curley says McQueary only told them it was 'rough housing' and NOT in a sexual nature.

Schultz says he doesn't recall the conversation, but that McQueary said it was fondling.

Curley and Schultz claim that they notified Child Protection Services. CPS shows no record of this being reported.

The Grand Jury believed McQueary's account. They didn't believe Curley and Schultz's.

Why?

Because Curley and Schultz had different accounts of the story from each other and they lied about calling CPS.









YR

 

[Cajuncowboy]

actually you don't know things. You formed an opinion based on a personal relationship, which is a far cry from knowing him.

there are people that felt they knew Sandusky from similar personal interactions and couldn't believe he would do what he did.

Let' put it this way then. I know Paterno A LOT better Paterno than you know about this situation.

Is it possible he is an evil monster who got a kick out of Sandusky raping little boys? Or maybe even knowing it and not caring? Maybe. But as I said before, it would be completely out of character.

I do know the man. I know his heart and I know what he has done in secret many times that know one is to know about. So before you start assuming "What I know" maybe you should stick to what you presumably know.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

Artist paints over Sandusky in State College mural

...He wanted to wait for the legal process to run its course before making a decision with the mural but was prompted to remove the mural after he received an email from an alleged victim's mother...



http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11313/1188605-100.stm

Good.

 

[Concord]

actually you don't know things. You formed an opinion based on a personal relationship, which is a far cry from knowing him.

there are people that felt they knew Sandusky from similar personal interactions and couldn't believe he would do what he did.

Very true

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Is it possible he is an evil monster who got a kick out of Sandusky raping little boys? Or maybe even knowing it and not caring? Maybe. But as I said before, it would be completely out of character.

I don't think people are saying he got a kick out of raping little boys.

I think those who condemn him believe it came down to him worrying more about his legacy and his football program.





YR

 

[JBond]

It's because I know things that about the guy that no one on this board knows. Again, I will wait and see before I crucify the guy. I will turn on him in an instant if I find out that he knew anything about the 1998 incident. That is why I am anxious to talk to my friend who was covering Penn State.

Fair enough my friend. Please share what you discover from your source. I have misjudged people before when blinded by loyalty. I have meet and spent time with people I believed were good to great people only to discover down the road how wrong I was. We learn to trust or instincts over time and it sucks when we are wrong. Being wrong is hard to accept sometimes.

Maybe Joe pa had no idea his friend was a predator, but his own words show that he knew he should have done more, indicating he had an idea of what was going on and chose not to address it.

 

[Stautner]

Fair enough my friend. Please share what you discover from your source. I have misjudged people before when blinded by loyalty. I have meet and spent time with people I believed were good to great people only to discover down the road how wrong I was. We learn to trust or instincts over time and it sucks when we are wrong. Being wrong is hard to accept sometimes.

Maybe Joe pa had no idea his friend was a predator, but his own words show that he knew he should have done more, indicating he had an idea of what was going on and chose not to address it.

This an untrue statement, although a lot of people are making the same mistake you are. What Joe's words tell us is that he knows now, with the benefit of hindsight, that he should have done more, not that he knew at the time he should have done more.

Before anyone goes off on me, I'm not saying I accept what Paterno is saying, I'm just clarifying what he actually said.

 

[Rogah]

We'd say this is ridiculous, and that you should take it with a grain of salt. But Madden actually wrote about Sandusky for the Beaver County Times six months ago — long before the scandal blindsided everyone else this week.

Madden also claimed Sandusky was forced out of Penn State in 1999.

"I think you'll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told he had to retire in exchange for a cover up."


Seems to me he was out in front of the scandal.

Madden has been talked about on WEEI all week. I know this because I have been listening to WEEI about 5 hours per day since Monday.

His article from this past April, which was pretty much ignored when it came out, was incredibly prescient in describing the events taking place this week. However it's important to note that he didn't say this "pimping out" has happened or that he even thinks that it happened, just that 2 (unnamed) reporters are investigating that possibility.

Personally, I find it very far fetched. When I think of a big booster, I think of a guy who would probably do sleazy things like give some money or a free SUV to some student-athlete. But I generally don't associate "big booster" with "child molester" so I highly doubt there is an entire group of such people out there all in one community.