Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[MichaelWinicki]

I'll tell ya, I'll never think of the term "back cracking" the same way every again.

 

[Stautner]

Actually yes, there has been a trial and a grand jury has released their Findings of Fact, which fits all acceptable definitions of having established proof beyond any reasonable doubt.

There will still be more trials and hearings and sentencings (these things take a long time) but we can accept the Grand Jury's findings as proof of guilt beyond any reasonable doubt. So you can stop hiding behind "presumption of innocence" because we're now past that point.

Wow, are you off base on the court system. A grand jury only finds there is enough evidence to go to trial, not that there is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why, as you say, there will be other trials, because the grand jury isn't the actual trial.

They gave him an office via his retirement package. They gave him all sorts of great stuff despite the prior knowledge they had concerning his activity with children.

I think that is what pisses many off. They knew and did nothing to stop him. It is hard to stop a single deviant, but when others know and pretend there is not a problem and allow it to continue...welll..... kinda like the mom that allows the father to beat or molest the children and turns away. That person is absolutely as responsible as the perpetrator.

I wonder how all his adopted kids and foster children are doing.

Now if that is true, and if it is also true that Paterno knew about prior charges, my mindset will start to shift more toward your direction.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Now if that is true, and if it is also true that Paterno knew about prior charges, my mindset will start to shift more toward your direction.

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1999?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1998?

According to one of the victims, he was told by Sandusky that he and Paterno had a meeting about the incident and that was why Paterno told Sandusky that he was not going to be the HC.

They knew.

They all knew.





YR

 

[JBond]

Wow, are you off base on the court system. A grand jury only finds there is enough evidence to go to trial, not that there is guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That's why, as you say, there will be other trials, because the grand jury isn't the actual trial.



Now if that is true, and if it is also true that Paterno knew about prior charges, my mindset will start to shift more toward your direction.

The more I read about this the madder I become. Covering for crimes against kids is right up there with committing the actual crimes in my world.

I didn't mean to attack you personally. I know you do not condone the heinous acts that were committed.

 

[Stautner]

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1999?

I agree, this is a huge issue in this story. If the school (and/or Paterno) knew of allegations and still allowed him to have an office and be affiliated with the school in any way, that's a huge deal.

 

[Stautner]

The more I read about this the madder I become. It reminds me why my wife and I left the Catholic church. Covering for crimes against kids is right up there with committing the actual crimes in my world.

I didn't mean to attack you personally. I know you do not condone the heinous acts that were committed.

Assuming there isn't more to the story, I just don't see Paterno's part in this as being as serious as the administrations. Paterno took action by reporting it, however as I have said, he feel short in doing the right thing because he should have been aware of whether the school did anything about it, and he shouldn't have allowed the school to bury it.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

According to one of the victims, he was told by Sandusky that he and Paterno had a meeting about the incident and that was why Paterno told Sandusky that he was not going to be the HC.

They knew.

They all knew.

YR

Seems to point that way. I'm sure we'll get more info as investigators dig deeper in all this.

The other thing that cracks me up is how the 'reporting' of the 2002 incident got less and less serious the further up the ladder it went. From rape to "horsing around" is quite a deviation from the original events. Was that done on purpose? Another thing that will need to be sorted out.

 

[JBond]

Assuming there isn't more to the story, I just don't see Paterno's part in this as being as serious as the administrations. Paterno took action by reporting it, however as I have said, he feel short in doing the right thing because he should have been aware of whether the school did anything about it, and he shouldn't have allowed the school to bury it.

Should Joe Pa and the assistant be charged with failing to report?

 

[Dmoore Esq]

Wait a minute, why are you attacking me? Go back about 20 pages ago -- I've already said the guy was wrong, that he should've grabbed a helmet out of a locker and pummeled the old POS immediately.

I thought you were asking me if I'd hire the guy if he *had* stopped the crime right then and there and Paterno had somehow tried to blackball the guy among his coaching peers. Yes, I'd hire him in that case.

Would I hire someone who saw the worst crime possible and did nothing about it? Hell no. But I didn't do that, Joe Paterno did.

Sorry, I jumped into the thread late. I thought you were saying you'd hire him after this whole thing has played out.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

Should Joe Pa and the assistant be charged with failing to report?

The assistant yeah.

Again, I'm not sure what Joe Pa was told by the assistant's father (if I have the "chain" of who talked to whom correct). However, he may have been aware enough of Sandusky's escapades for the late 90's, to know that a naked kid in the shower with a naked Sandusky wasn't a good thing at any level.

Again, I think we're going to get clued in on how much Joe actually knew from the events of the late 90's.

 

[Stautner]

Should Joe Pa and the assistant be charged with failing to report?

No, because he did report to the officials at the school who are responsible for handling all matters on campus. I don't think that passes the buck on doing what is right, but it does pass the buck on criminal liability. I do, however, think Paterno should be criticized harshly for burying his head in the sand regarding how the school handled the situation, and he should lose his job and he should lose face. It's a damn shame a guy with his history of running possibly the cleanest big time football program in the country has to go down like this, but he has himself to blame for it.

 

[Stautner]

The assistant yeah.

Again, I'm not sure what Joe Pa was told by the assistant's father (if I have the "chain" of who talked to whom correct). However, he may have been aware enough of Sandusky's escapades for the late 90's, to know that a naked kid in the shower with a naked Sandusky wasn't a good thing at any level.

Again, I think we're going to get clued in on how much Joe actually knew from the events of the late 90's.

I don't have a problem with the assistant's initial reporting to Paterno, but I do have a problem that he didn't follow up. After all, he is the one that actually saw the crime, and therefore he is the only one that could actually support a criminal complaint against Sandusky. I'm not sure if that rises to the level of a criminal offense, but it certainly doesn't say much for his character that he let it die after witnessing what he did.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I'm not sure if that rises to the level of a criminal offense, but it certainly doesn't say much for his character that he let it die after witnessing what he did.

That's very true.

And if it's not a criminal offense, it's something that he'll have to live with for the rest of his life.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Wrong...This is the worst thing that can ever happen to little children. get your priorities strait.



One of the few times we will agree on something 100%



There is no freaking excuse. You report child rape to the police. You do not protect a POS like that just because he is your friend. ***?



I hate to disagree with a couple of posters I really like, but I must. Sandusky adopted four little kids and had numerous foster children. He was a predator and Joe Pa did next to nothing when presented with the evidence. I liked and respected Joe for how he conducted his business and ran his program. Turns out the guy is a POS that allowed a child rapist to continue to torture children. There is no freaking excuses allowed. I know that both of you would have done more than Joe Pa if you were made aware of a child rapist.

I'm going to respond to this note but really, I'm going to respond to this entire thread.

This is a Football forum. As such, it is not wrong to discuss this issue in terms of Football. The right or wrong of this is another matter. Lets not get holier then thou over this thing if at all possible. In terms of Joe Peterno an his future, it is not wrong to discuss his place in football without taking into account the political aspects of this issue. DO NOT make this political.

Lets be clear, no political discussion is allowed on this board. Please, lets not let this turn into such a discussion.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

The other thing that cracks me up is how the 'reporting' of the 2002 incident got less and less serious the further up the ladder it went. From rape to "horsing around" is quite a deviation from the original events. Was that done on purpose? Another thing that will need to be sorted out.

Schultz and Curley have also been charged with perjury.

McQuery went to Curley's office (the athletic director) and Curley had Schultz there as well.

One reason for the perjury is that Curley claimed that McQuery said that Sandusky and the boy were just 'horsing around' and that he did not tell him the kid was being raped or involved in any sexual behavior.

Schultz claimed he didn't quite remember the conversation, but said that he recalls McQuery telling him that Sandusky was touching the boys genitals in the shower.

So, you have 3 different stories. McQuery claiming that there was anall rape and that he told both Curley and Schultz that. The jury in the report says they found McQuery's story 'extremely credible.'

Next, you have Curley claiming that McQuery said they were 'just horsing around.'

Then you have Schultz saying he didn't really recall other than McQuery saying that Sandusky touched the boys genitals in the shower.

And the jury found portions of the Schultz and Curley testimony to not be credible.


THEN...

Curley claimed he sent in a report to the Child Protection Services and the agency says they show no report every being made.


So McQuery could have very likely gone more into detail and the jury believes he did.

Why McQuery thought that it was 'taken care of' is the question.










YR

 

[casmith07]

Should Joe Pa and the assistant be charged with failing to report?

Looking the other way is not a crime.

 

[2233boys]

So McQueary thought he may have been fired at that time and now he may end up as interim head coach. Let a kid get molested, don't call the police and you shall be rewarded down the line. Amazing.

That won't happen it will be Bradley or Hall

 

[JBond]

I'm going to respond to this note but really, I'm going to respond to this entire thread.

This is a Football forum. As such, it is not wrong to discuss this issue in terms of Football. The right or wrong of this is another matter. Lets not get holier then thou over this thing if at all possible. In terms of Joe Peterno an his future, it is not wrong to discuss his place in football without taking into account the political aspects of this issue. DO NOT make this political.

Lets be clear, no political discussion is allowed on this board. Please, lets not let this turn into such a discussion.

I was not attempting to make this political. Left leaning, right leaning does not matter in such a situation.

On the topic of football, it will be years before they fully recover as a University and as a football program.

 

[JBond]

I don't have a problem with the assistant's initial reporting to Paterno, but I do have a problem that he didn't follow up. After all, he is the one that actually saw the crime, and therefore he is the only one that could actually support a criminal complaint against Sandusky. I'm not sure if that rises to the level of a criminal offense, but it certainly doesn't say much for his character that he let it die after witnessing what he did.

Have you seen or listened to the clips from the Joe Pa rally in front of his house last night? He called anally raped little boys "the victims or whatever they are".

Something is not right with Joe Pa. It could be that he is older than dirt and is so senile he has no clue, but I doubt that was the case when this was happening under his watch. According to the affidavit from the grand jury testimony, the assistant witnessed the anal rape of a 10 year old and reported it to Joe Pa. Then......nothing, no police, no official investigation, and no the school investigating itself does not count. Joe Pa and the assistant did nothing.Then shock Sandusky is busted again.

For those chiming in on my question about charges...I am not a lawyer obviously, but isn't it a crime in Pennsylvania to not report the rape of a child?