Penn State Sex Abuse Scandal (Indictment Post #144, "Pimping" Allegations Post #442)

[RoyTheHammer]

That is a bunch of bull. No one here is saying Paterno is the most to blame. No one. You are making all of that drama up on your own. You are making him out to be some martyr. He's not. He had a part in all this, could have done more in most people's eyes and will end up losing his job over it. You don't lose your job when you do everything absolutely 100% the right way. And his punishment is nowhere near as bad as what others in this fiasco deserve and will probably get.

The more you defend Paterno the more the whole situation just ticks me off. Screw him.

Its not a bunch of bull if you read some of YR's posts about the matter.

Also, im not defending Paterno's judgement in this situation. He was wrong. He made an awful decision not to do more. However, had Curley and Schultz kept their word to him when he went immediately to them with the information he was given and was told "they would take care of it", this whole thing would've been avoided. When they didn't however, he should have done more. No two ways about it. That's why everyone from Spanier to McQueary needs to go. Its sickening at best that this was allowed to continue on and Joe knows he shouldve done more.

However, to blast the man as a guy with low moral charater and make him out to be a monster who knew that Sandusky was raping dozens of little boys the entire time is straight up bull****. That's all im going to say about that, if you are a person implying that, you have no idea what you're talking about or who you're talking about.

Also, i'd just like to say i find it slightly comical that so many are rushing to comdemn Joe for basically not being a Good Samaritain one time in his life. How many of us walk on by on the other side of the road when we see a situation where we could help in in our daily lives? Probably alot of the same that are the first to rush to comdenm the people that do the same thing would be my guess.

He made a mistake, a huge error in judgement.. for that he needs to go from the program. But he understands why, he announced his retirement today, and he will continue to stay around PSU when he goes, dedicating the rest of his life to helping students at PSU find success in his life.. something he's been doing for the past 60 years. This won't tarnish all the good he's done in his life, though it will weight heavy on his heart for many years im sure. He'll suffer his own consequences in his own mind and heart, and he doesn't need anyone else to tell him why he should have done more.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Have you seen or listened to the clips from the Joe Pa rally in front of his house last night? He called anally raped little boys "the victims or whatever they are".?

Did he really?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I was not attempting to make this political. Left leaning, right leaning does not matter in such a situation.

On the topic of football, it will be years before they fully recover as a University and as a football program.

I agree JB. It's going to be awhile but I find that the American public often has a very short memory.

 

[Stautner]

Have you seen or listened to the clips from the Joe Pa rally in front of his house last night? He called anally raped little boys "the victims or whatever they are".

Something is not right with Joe Pa. It could be that he is older than dirt and is so senile he has no clue, but I doubt that was the case when this was happening under his watch. According to the affidavit from the grand jury testimony, the assistant witnessed the anal rape of a 10 year old and reported it to Joe Pa. Then......nothing, no police, no official investigation, and no the school investigating itself does not count. Joe Pa and the assistant did nothing.Then shock Sandusky is busted again.

For those chiming in on my question about charges...I am not a lawyer obviously, but isn't it a crime in Pennsylvania to not report the rape of a child?

Are you really going to get caught up in trying to interperet some significant meaning from every spur of the moment comment or sound bite? Maybe it wasn't the best phrasing, but that's pretty weak stuff to condemn a man for. I'm going to stick with the facts as they come to be known, not sound bites and media clips for people to interperet.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Have you seen or listened to the clips from the Joe Pa rally in front of his house last night? He called anally raped little boys "the victims or whatever they are".

Something is not right with Joe Pa. It could be that he is older than dirt and is so senile he has no clue, but I doubt that was the case when this was happening under his watch. According to the affidavit from the grand jury testimony, the assistant witnessed the anal rape of a 10 year old and reported it to Joe Pa. Then......nothing, no police, no official investigation, and no the school investigating itself does not count. Joe Pa and the assistant did nothing.Then shock Sandusky is busted again.

For those chiming in on my question about charges...I am not a lawyer obviously, but isn't it a crime in Pennsylvania to not report the rape of a child?

Here's the crazier thing.

After the 2002 incident, Paterno apparently never even *confronted* Sandusky himself.

Let's just say, hypothetically, that 2002 was the first time he had ever heard of Sandusky and boys.

Granted...this would be a long time friend so one could say it would come as a shock to anybody if they were told their long time friends was molesting boys.

At the very least, wouldn't Paterno confront Sandusky about the matter?

Wouldn't he say 'Jerry, I have been told that you fondled a 10 year old boy. Is this true?'

But nope...he just went to the AD.

I don't think anybody does that unless they knew beforehand of an incident. And even still, that's an incredibly cowardly way to act by just reporting it to the AD.







YR

 

[joseephuss]

Its not a bunch of bull if you read some of YR's posts about the matter.

Also, im not defending Paterno's judgement in this situation. He was wrong. He made an awful decision not to do more. However, had Curley and Schultz kept their word to him when he went immediately to them with the information he was given and was told "they would take care of it", this whole thing would've been avoided. When they didn't however, he should have done more. No two ways about it. That's why everyone from Spanier to McQueary needs to go. Its sickening at best that this was allowed to continue on and Joe knows he shouldve done more.

However, to blast the man as a guy with low moral charater and make him out to be a monster who knew that Sandusky was raping dozens of little boys the entire time is straight up bull****. That's all im going to say about that, if you are a person implying that, you have no idea what you're talking about or who you're talking about.

Also, i'd just like to say i find it slightly comical that so many are rushing to comdemn Joe for basically not being a Good Samaritain one time in his life. How many of us walk on by on the other side of the road when we see a situation where we could help in in our daily lives? Probably alot of the same that are the first to rush to comdenm the people that do the same thing would be my guess.

He made a mistake, a huge error in judgement.. for that he needs to go from the program. But he understands why, he announced his retirement today, and he will continue to stay around PSU when he goes, dedicating the rest of his life to helping students at PSU find success in his life.. something he's been doing for the past 60 years. This won't tarnish all the good he's done in his life, though it will weight heavy on his heart for many years im sure. He'll suffer his own consequences in his own mind and heart, and he doesn't need anyone else to tell him why he should have done more.

All you are doing is deflecting and over-dramatizing the criticism on Paterno. No one has said he deserves more punishment than Curley and Schultz yet that is your primary response and comparison. It is ridiculous and I will say it again a bunch of bull.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

One of the things that bothers me is the "Why" Sandusky was told that he would not become Joe's successor back in 1999.

If it comes out that it had to do with the actions of Sandusky as they pertain to this issue, then clearly it was known by at least some people that Sandusky had a history of this. So then 2002 comes around and it comes up all over again, with little done in the way of preventing further issues.

Again, who knew what in 1999?

The police and child protective services knew in 1998 that Sandusky founded his own charity organization putting him in contact with hundreds, if not thousands of young boys, and they also knew he showered with a young boy in the locker room.. because he told both of them he did so.. yet all we get is,

"Are you going to do it again?"

"No, I won't do it again."

"Ok, move along, sir."


Absolutely pathetic.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

All you are doing is deflecting and over-dramatizing the criticism on Paterno. No one has said he deserves more punishment than Curley and Schultz yet that is your primary response and comparison. It is ridiculous and I will say it again a bunch of bull.

Its not about the punishment at all.. and you can't over dramitize a situation like this. It doesn't get anymore emotional than this, hence the 20 pages of replies already. Everyone at the beginning of the thread rushed to blast the man's moral character and there were things said that were just not true, that is all.

 

[JBond]

Are you really going to get caught up in trying to interperet some significant meaning from every spur of the moment comment or sound bite? Maybe it wasn't the best phrasing, but that's pretty weak stuff to condemn a man for. I'm going to stick with the facts as they come to be known, not sound bites and media clips for people to interperet.

Joe Pa by all accounts is a terrific human being. I get that. But, he made a critical error. An error so large that he can not run behind his good works and avoid culpability. The sooner Penn State clears out everyone involved and hands over every last detail to the grand jury, the stench will continue to surround the University.

You mention facts. I thought I had presented the facts as I understood them. Joe pa's long time assistant has been raping children for decades. When a first hand account from an eye witness was presented to Joe Pa regarding his buddy, he did essentially nothing. How many rapes of children could have been avoided if Joe Pa and the assistant had done the proper thing and gone to the real authorities at the time?

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Joe Pa by all accounts is a terrific human being. I get that. But, he made a critical error. An error so large that he can not run behind his good works and avoid culpability. The sooner Penn State clears out everyone involved and hands over every last detail to the grand jury, the stench will continue to surround the University.

You mention facts. I thought I had presented the facts as I understood them. Joe pa's long time assistant has been raping children for decades. When a first hand account from an eye witness was presented to Joe Pa regarding his buddy, he did essentially nothing. How many rapes of children could have been avoided if Joe Pa and the assistant had done the proper thing and gone to the real authorities at the time?

The thing is.. he's not trying to run from this or stand behind his good deeds. If you read his retirement announcement today, he acknowledges he should have done more and he *** up. He also didn't want the board of trustees to have to waste time debating his future when there are far more important matters they could be discussing. He stood up, said he was wrong, apoligized, and is leaving on his own. There's really nothing more he can do at this point than that. He knows he messed up, and he's accepting that there are consequences for that.

As to your question, if anyone of the people that knew went to police, the chances that more bad things could have been avoided are obviously greater, though not guarenteed. That's why everyone from Spanier to McQueary should be forced to go if they don't go by themselves. Its a truly sickening thing that no one came forward.

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Did he really?

yeah he did but he's an old man so you have to cut him some slack for his choice of words

 

[CanadianCowboysFan]

Joe Pa by all accounts is a terrific human being. I get that. But, he made a critical error. An error so large that he can not run behind his good works and avoid culpability. The sooner Penn State clears out everyone involved and hands over every last detail to the grand jury, the stench will continue to surround the University.

You mention facts. I thought I had presented the facts as I understood them. Joe pa's long time assistant has been raping children for decades. When a first hand account from an eye witness was presented to Joe Pa regarding his buddy, he did essentially nothing. How many rapes of children could have been avoided if Joe Pa and the assistant had done the proper thing and gone to the real authorities at the time?

Well why didn't the guy who told JoePa about it go to the authorities?

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Joe Pa by all accounts is a terrific human being. I get that. But, he made a critical error. An error so large that he can not run behind his good works and avoid culpability.

I think it raises the question 'is Joe Paterno really a teriffic human being?'

This stuff to me, is basic moral stuff. Stuff that should almost be instinctual. Here from a good source that he witnessed a boy being fondled (which is what the Grand Jury reports that Paterno said he heard from McQuery)...and just report it to the athletic director?

No confronting of Sandusky? No follow up when Sandusky is still freely roaming the campus and still has an office on campus?

And to me, in a time when Paterno had to choose between possibly tarnishing his legacy and the football program versus protecting a child and other children...he chose to protect his legacy.

This ain't about some kids being caught smoking weed and turning a blind eye. Or taking a chance on a kid who winds up committing a horrible crime.

It's about kids being molested and Paterno apparently turning a blind eye to the entire thing.

An error in judgment to me was the Va Tech president who made the grave error of continuing class while a gunman was on the loose. I can see that as an honest mistake.

I would label Paterno as a less than terrific human being. I think all of the things he did for the university were more to help amplify his legacy than to actually help people. Fortunately, it did trickle down to help people, but that wasn't Paterno's main concern.









YR

 

[JBond]

Well why didn't the guy who told JoePa about it go to the authorities?

I am with you 100%. Both should be punished if my understanding of Pennsylvania law is correct. Several other officials may also be in trouble.

You would have. I would have. Why did the assistant and his boss not report the brutal rape of a child?

Maybe one of the legal beagles can help us out.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I think it raises the question 'is Joe Paterno really a teriffic human being?'

This stuff to me, is basic moral stuff. Stuff that should almost be instinctual. Here from a good source that he witnessed a boy being fondled (which is what the Grand Jury reports that Paterno said he heard from McQuery)...and just report it to the athletic director?

No confronting of Sandusky? No follow up when Sandusky is still freely roaming the campus and still has an office on campus?

And to me, in a time when Paterno had to choose between possibly tarnishing his legacy and the football program versus protecting a child and other children...he chose to protect his legacy.

This ain't about some kids being caught smoking weed and turning a blind eye. Or taking a chance on a kid who winds up committing a horrible crime.

It's about kids being molested and Paterno apparently turning a blind eye to the entire thing.

An error in judgment to me was the Va Tech president who made the grave error of continuing class while a gunman was on the loose. I can see that as an honest mistake.

I would label Paterno as a less than terrific human being. I think all of the things he did for the university were more to help amplify his legacy than to actually help people. Fortunately, it did trickle down to help people, but that wasn't Paterno's main concern.









YR

 

[RoyTheHammer]

I am with you 100%. Both should be punished if my understanding of Pennsylvania law is correct. Several other officials may also be in trouble.

You would have. I would have. Why did the assistant and his boss not report the brutal rape of a child?

Maybe one of the legal beagles can help us out.

They both reported it to their superior and to the head of university police.

 

[Manwiththeplan]

Who ever the GA was who actually witnessed the act taking place is a coward for not doing anything. I'm not saying you had to physically confront the guy, but just pulling out a cell phone would've caused Sandusky to run.

 

[Yakuza Rich]

Keep rolling your eyes and keep having blind allegiance to fake heroes.







YR

 

[Manwiththeplan]

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
- Edmond Burke

This sums it up for me. The AD, University President have a legal responsibility to do more, and their day in court is coming. However, for Joe Pa, the Graduate Assistant and anyone else who knew should be haunted by these words. Who knows how many lives could've been sparred from Sandusky's actions if anyone did more than the bare minimum to stop him!

I'm not saying that the guys who did little to nothing to intervene should go to **** or even jail, but they don't get to go own with their lives as though nothing happened.

 

[Stautner]

Joe Pa by all accounts is a terrific human being. I get that. But, he made a critical error. An error so large that he can not run behind his good works and avoid culpability. The sooner Penn State clears out everyone involved and hands over every last detail to the grand jury, the stench will continue to surround the University.

You mention facts. I thought I had presented the facts as I understood them. Joe pa's long time assistant has been raping children for decades. When a first hand account from an eye witness was presented to Joe Pa regarding his buddy, he did essentially nothing. How many rapes of children could have been avoided if Joe Pa and the assistant had done the proper thing and gone to the real authorities at the time?

Yes, he made an error, and yes you presented the facts as you understood them, and we have discussed that. But that's not what I was talking about in the post you quoted and responded to. I said judging on facts is fine - although I would caution about judging from the "facts" being thrown around in the current media frenzy - but that judging based on perceived meanings from a sound bite or impromptu comment with a camera rolling is a different thing.