People who's the better receiver of D. Jarrett, D. Bowe, T. Ginn, and Robert Meachem?

Doomsday101

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MichaelWinicki;1451958 said:
I think a lot of people are going to be suprised when we don't draft a WR in the 1st round.

Maybe, Dallas is in a position right now that opens their options up of who they may select. I'm not hanging my hat on any one player or position I just hope when the selection is made that we end up with a quality player who will be with us for a long time. I do think we will select a WR at some point in the draft and clearly would not be opposed to taking one in the 1st rd.
 

Da Hammer

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Hostile;1449672 said:
Calvin Johnson is the no doubt about it best player in this draft, not just the best WR. That makes him unique.

After him I think it depends on the team that is on the board thinking WR. For instance, I think Tennessee would lean towards Meachem because he's a Volunteer. I think Kansas City wouldn't look at Ted Ginn Jr. because they already have Dante Hall. I think San Francisco would look at Ginn Jr. because they also need help in returns.

For Dallas I would rank them like this.

1. Meachem, hands, speed, toughness, and above all great character. Becoming more vital to the Cowboys all the time.

2. Bowe, toughness, route running, and system he played in fits Dallas.

3. Jarrett, does the most important thing, he scores. His speed is fast enough that he makes whatever CB on him look bad. Don't be fooled.

4. Ginn Jr., the only reason I have him 4th is health issues a red flag, small size, and lack of need for return man at this point, though I admit the team may disagree.
I couldnt have said it better myself. i have this exact order of the receivers for the reason u posted but u were way ahead of me so i just nod in approval!!! :)
 

Doomsday101

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RealCowboyfan;1451983 said:
Why Ginn? Ginn is explosive but how durable is he with the 180 pound frame?

Glenn is not much bigger at 195. All of these guys will be told from team trainers what type of weight they need to come to camp at and determine certain workouts to strengthen certain areas, even a guy like Charles Johnson will be told by some teams trainer what they want from him before he comes to camp.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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MichaelWinicki;1451958 said:
I think a lot of people are going to be suprised when we don't draft a WR in the 1st round.

I would not draft one in the first Round. I would seriously try to target Hill or Rice in the second.


You can say what you want about any of these players and to a certain extent, I think all of it has some truth to it. However, in the final analysis, these are the things I see about each of the top WR prospects.

CJ - Basically, we aint ever going to see him so why talk about it?

Ginn Jr. - Not just ultra quick but fast as well. He is the biggest game changer in this draft, even ahead of CJ. How does he fit into our scheme? Pretty well. If he were drafted, he would have the opportunity to play 3rd or 4th WR. Learning the game from Glenn, IMO, would be a huge benifit to him. I think Glenn would take the time to teach this young man as well. I think there's a Ohio State thing that could develop there. He is what we need in our offense. He's a guy that you must double over the top. If you put him at one split, Glenn at the other and Owens in the slot, they are uncoverable IMO. He fits extremely well but, the draw backs are that he he isn't a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He just has OK hands. He doesn't have a great deal of experience and he's small. He will have trouble getting off the LOS. He's going to get injured because he's not big enough. It's an issue for sure. This is why he might be there for us with the 1st pick. The potential is great but so is the risk IMO.

Bowe - Very nice size at 6-2/220. Good leaping ability. Great Redzone target. Not a great route runner. Drops a lot of balls. Does not have a great deal of experience. Isn't fast or quick. Is only average in this area. How does he fit into our offense? Frankly, I look at Bowe and say to myself, we already got one of these. He's Owens with less spead and probably not as good a route runner. That's not a bad thing by any means but where does he fit into the offense? We have Owens, Witten and Fasano who are all big targets in the Redzone. I just don't think he's going to be a better option then we already have on the team and he's going to cost a #1 pick.

Jarrett - Bigger, slower version of the same thing above except better hands and better route runner. Maybe could slip to the 2nd just depending. Where is he going to fit in the offense?

Meacham - 6-2/215. 4.39 type speed. Decent quicks. Can probably put on more weight and still be fast. Very productive for one year. You look at this guy and based on last year, he's should be right there with CJ. He's not. He isn't a real physical player. He isn't as fast as he times. He isn't a great route runner. He does drop balls. He doesn't work the middle of the field well. What's the use of having a lot of size if your not going to use it in the middle of the field? He's only had one great season and it was pretty great considering. Some people say he disappeares in big games but I say look at who was at QB in those games and the scheme the defenses used against him. He's not a guy that is going to be able to defeat the double team coming into the league. However, everything you need is there to develop into a great WR. How does he fit with us? I don't believe he is a guy who will get much time in his 1st year but he is a guy who could become a great WR for us if a guy like Michael Irvin took interest in him. He has all you need but he will not be an impact player for us and it might cost more then 22 if we really want him.

Rice - 6'3+/200 lbs. He has to get bigger for the NFL. He plays faster then he times. 40 speed is 4.5 range but he's much quicker in short area and understands how to create seperation. He has excellent hands and body control. Do not underestimate this ability. He can adjust to the ball in the air better then anybody in this draft. He also has long arms. This is why he can create seperation so well even thou he isn't overly fast in a 40. This guy is the best WR from a production stand point in this draft. Nobody else has done what he has done in there 1st two years. Now just stop for a second and think about that. Then recognize the fact that he did this in the SEC, which IMO, is the toughest league in college right now. Everybody makes a big deal of the fact that CJ's numbers are not all that impressive because he had nobody to throw him the ball but Rice had an even worse situation at QB then did CJ. Worse too then did Meacham IMO. If Rice played with a decent QB in the same offense for 3 years, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMO. I hate to say this because I don't believe in comparing college players to great NFL players and I know I'm going to get slamed for this but I see Rice and his situation reminds me of Jerry Rice's when he came out. Jerry didn't run fast but he was a hard worker, he had exceptional hands and body control. He was not a great route runner when he came out but he was tireless in his efforts and he made himself a great route runner. I see all the same kinds of things in Sidney Rice. How does he fit into our offense? He's a 4th WR with the ability to become the 3rd WR in a year, possibly mid or late season but he must learn how to slip the bump. He is a player that we would have to develop. However, he has all the ability to become a #1 WR. 142 catches, 2233 yards, 23 TDs in 2 seasons. Injuries are a concern but if he can get stronger, he can be a player for us. Best think about this player IMO is that he would not cost us the 22nd pick.

Hill - 6/200 lbs. 4.32 speed. Good short area quicks. This is the most complete WR of all the prospects listed. He does not play as fast as he times but he times at 4.32 so if he only plays at 4.38, I'm still real good with that. Excellent hands, very good body control. Adjusts well to the ball in the air. Catches the ball deep or can work the middle of the field. This player does need to get stronger on his realease and learn to concentrate a bit more. However, he was very productive in a big time conference. Only 41 catches, 600 yards and 7 TDs in his Sr. year but in his Soph. and Jr. years, he had over a thousand yards in each year, 45 catches his Soph and 62 catches his Jr. year. 12 and 13 TDs respectively. Now just think about that for a second. That's and AYPC of 22.4 and 17.7. How does he fit into our scheme? He provides what Ginn provides. Just not as much of it. This is a guy who will develop into a deep threat that will command double coverage IMO. He's probably more of a 2nd WR type then he is a #1 but the possability of him developing into a #1 WR is certainly there. I think that outside of Ginn, this guy probably makes the biggest impact quickest. Again, the major upside to this guy is that he's probably a 2nd or 3rd rd pick. He has played with a shoulder injury and a high anckle sprain all year, which is why his production is down and we are able to look at him as a later pick. This is a guy who I think is going to be a very good WR in the NFL. Needs to learn a few things but is easily the most polished WR in this draft, IMO. Not as explosive as Ginn but also less risk IMO. At worst, I think he will be solid. At best, he could turn into a guy like Holt IMO. I do like this guy.
 

jackrussell

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ABQCOWBOY;1452130 said:
I would not draft one in the first Round. I would seriously try to target Hill or Rice in the second.


You can say what you want about any of these players and to a certain extent, I think all of it has some truth to it. However, in the final analysis, these are the things I see about each of the top WR prospects.

CJ - Basically, we aint ever going to see him so why talk about it?

Ginn Jr. - Not just ultra quick but fast as well. He is the biggest game changer in this draft, even ahead of CJ. How does he fit into our scheme? Pretty well. If he were drafted, he would have the opportunity to play 3rd or 4th WR. Learning the game from Glenn, IMO, would be a huge benifit to him. I think Glenn would take the time to teach this young man as well. I think there's a Ohio State thing that could develop there. He is what we need in our offense. He's a guy that you must double over the top. If you put him at one split, Glenn at the other and Owens in the slot, they are uncoverable IMO. He fits extremely well but, the draw backs are that he he isn't a great route runner. He doesn't have great hands. He just has OK hands. He doesn't have a great deal of experience and he's small. He will have trouble getting off the LOS. He's going to get injured because he's not big enough. It's an issue for sure. This is why he might be there for us with the 1st pick. The potential is great but so is the risk IMO.

Bowe - Very nice size at 6-2/220. Good leaping ability. Great Redzone target. Not a great route runner. Drops a lot of balls. Does not have a great deal of experience. Isn't fast or quick. Is only average in this area. How does he fit into our offense? Frankly, I look at Bowe and say to myself, we already got one of these. He's Owens with less spead and probably not as good a route runner. That's not a bad thing by any means but where does he fit into the offense? We have Owens, Witten and Fasano who are all big targets in the Redzone. I just don't think he's going to be a better option then we already have on the team and he's going to cost a #1 pick.

Jarrett - Bigger, slower version of the same thing above except better hands and better route runner. Maybe could slip to the 2nd just depending. Where is he going to fit in the offense?

Meacham - 6-2/215. 4.39 type speed. Decent quicks. Can probably put on more weight and still be fast. Very productive for one year. You look at this guy and based on last year, he's should be right there with CJ. He's not. He isn't a real physical player. He isn't as fast as he times. He isn't a great route runner. He does drop balls. He doesn't work the middle of the field well. What's the use of having a lot of size if your not going to use it in the middle of the field? He's only had one great season and it was pretty great considering. Some people say he disappeares in big games but I say look at who was at QB in those games and the scheme the defenses used against him. He's not a guy that is going to be able to defeat the double team coming into the league. However, everything you need is there to develop into a great WR. How does he fit with us? I don't believe he is a guy who will get much time in his 1st year but he is a guy who could become a great WR for us if a guy like Michael Irvin took interest in him. He has all you need but he will not be an impact player for us and it might cost more then 22 if we really want him.

Rice - 6'3+/200 lbs. He has to get bigger for the NFL. He plays faster then he times. 40 speed is 4.5 range but he's much quicker in short area and understands how to create seperation. He has excellent hands and body control. Do not underestimate this ability. He can adjust to the ball in the air better then anybody in this draft. He also has long arms. This is why he can create seperation so well even thou he isn't overly fast in a 40. This guy is the best WR from a production stand point in this draft. Nobody else has done what he has done in there 1st two years. Now just stop for a second and think about that. Then recognize the fact that he did this in the SEC, which IMO, is the toughest league in college right now. Everybody makes a big deal of the fact that CJ's numbers are not all that impressive because he had nobody to throw him the ball but Rice had an even worse situation at QB then did CJ. Worse too then did Meacham IMO. If Rice played with a decent QB in the same offense for 3 years, we wouldn't even be having this discussion IMO. I hate to say this because I don't believe in comparing college players to great NFL players and I know I'm going to get slamed for this but I see Rice and his situation reminds me of Jerry Rice's when he came out. Jerry didn't run fast but he was a hard worker, he had exceptional hands and body control. He was not a great route runner when he came out but he was tireless in his efforts and he made himself a great route runner. I see all the same kinds of things in Sidney Rice. How does he fit into our offense? He's a 4th WR with the ability to become the 3rd WR in a year, possibly mid or late season but he must learn how to slip the bump. He is a player that we would have to develop. However, he has all the ability to become a #1 WR. 142 catches, 2233 yards, 23 TDs in 2 seasons. Injuries are a concern but if he can get stronger, he can be a player for us. Best think about this player IMO is that he would not cost us the 22nd pick.

Hill - 6/200 lbs. 4.32 speed. Good short area quicks. This is the most complete WR of all the prospects listed. He does not play as fast as he times but he times at 4.32 so if he only plays at 4.38, I'm still real good with that. Excellent hands, very good body control. Adjusts well to the ball in the air. Catches the ball deep or can work the middle of the field. This player does need to get stronger on his realease and learn to concentrate a bit more. However, he was very productive in a big time conference. Only 41 catches, 600 yards and 7 TDs in his Sr. year but in his Soph. and Jr. years, he had over a thousand yards in each year, 45 catches his Soph and 62 catches his Jr. year. 12 and 13 TDs respectively. Now just think about that for a second. That's and AYPC of 22.4 and 17.7. How does he fit into our scheme? He provides what Ginn provides. Just not as much of it. This is a guy who will develop into a deep threat that will command double coverage IMO. He's probably more of a 2nd WR type then he is a #1 but the possability of him developing into a #1 WR is certainly there. I think that outside of Ginn, this guy probably makes the biggest impact quickest. Again, the major upside to this guy is that he's probably a 2nd or 3rd rd pick. He has played with a shoulder injury and a high anckle sprain all year, which is why his production is down and we are able to look at him as a later pick. This is a guy who I think is going to be a very good WR in the NFL. Needs to learn a few things but is easily the most polished WR in this draft, IMO. Not as explosive as Ginn but also less risk IMO. At worst, I think he will be solid. At best, he could turn into a guy like Holt IMO. I do like this guy.


Good stuff Maynard.:thumbup:
 

theogt

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ABQCOWBOY;1452130 said:
Bowe - Very nice size at 6-2/220. Good leaping ability. Great Redzone target. Not a great route runner. Drops a lot of balls. Does not have a great deal of experience. Isn't fast or quick. Is only average in this area. How does he fit into our offense? Frankly, I look at Bowe and say to myself, we already got one of these. He's Owens with less spead and probably not as good a route runner. That's not a bad thing by any means but where does he fit into the offense? We have Owens, Witten and Fasano who are all big targets in the Redzone. I just don't think he's going to be a better option then we already have on the team and he's going to cost a #1 pick.
I'm not sure where this "not a good route runner" thing came from. He's probably the best route runner in the draft. The TO comparison is perfect. He looks a lot like TO physically. I'm not sure why you'd say he's not as fast as Owens. He looks as fast on film, and his 40 numbers are pretty good.

Sure, if TO was 25 years old, there'd be no reason to draft Bowe. The problem is, he ain't 25.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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theogt;1452174 said:
I'm not sure where this "not a good route runner" thing came from. He's probably the best route runner in the draft. The TO comparison is perfect. He looks a lot like TO physically. I'm not sure why you'd say he's not as fast as Owens. He looks as fast on film, and his 40 numbers are pretty good.

Sure, if TO was 25 years old, there'd be no reason to draft Bowe. The problem is, he ain't 25.

Pretty simple. I watched him play. He relies on his size as opposed to running his routes in a precise fasion. He could be so much better if he learned to set up his man and then use his physical ability. He rounds routes doesn't always break crisply in and out of routes. I say that he isn't faster then Owens because everybody on this board seems to think that Ownes is ultra fast. Personally, I think he's got good 100 and 200 speed but not real quick into or out of his pattern. This guy does not look even as fast as Owens, to me. He certainly doesn't time fast.

I suppose if you see Ownes gone in a year, then maybe that would make sense. I don't see that. I see Owens here. IMO, the thing this team lacks and has lacked for a long time is real game breaking vertical speed at WR. Neither Bowe nor Jarrett are those things IMO.
 

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ABQCOWBOY;1452180 said:
Pretty simple. I watched him play. He relies on his size as opposed to running his routes in a precise fasion. He could be so much better if he learned to set up his man and then use his physical ability. He rounds routes doesn't always break crisply in and out of routes. I say that he isn't faster then Owens because everybody on this board seems to think that Ownes is ultra fast. Personally, I think he's got good 100 and 200 speed but not real quick into or out of his pattern. This guy does not look even as fast as Owens, to me. He certainly doesn't time fast.

I suppose if you see Ownes gone in a year, then maybe that would make sense. I don't see that. I see Owens here. IMO, the thing this team lacks and has lacked for a long time is real game breaking vertical speed at WR. Neither Bowe nor Jarrett are those things IMO.
I think you can make some valid criticisms about Bowe, but route running simply isn't one, in my opinion. That's often the first compliment people give him.
 

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theogt;1452225 said:
I think you can make some valid criticisms about Bowe, but route running simply isn't one, in my opinion. That's often the first compliment people give him.


From looking at Dwayne Bowe he look impressive.
 

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theogt;1452174 said:
I'm not sure where this "not a good route runner" thing came from. He's probably the best route runner in the draft. The TO comparison is perfect. He looks a lot like TO physically. I'm not sure why you'd say he's not as fast as Owens. He looks as fast on film, and his 40 numbers are pretty good.

Sure, if TO was 25 years old, there'd be no reason to draft Bowe. The problem is, he ain't 25.

I think Meachem more closely resembles TO than any WR in this draft, a huge YAC threat

both aren't known for taking shots over the middle of the field as well
 

theogt

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Bob Sacamano;1452236 said:
I think Meachem more closely resembles TO than any WR in this draft, a huge YAC threat

both aren't known for taking shots over the middle of the field as well
I don't see how Meachem fits the TO comparison at all. I'm talking about body type, speed, movement, agression, etc.
 

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theogt;1452252 said:
I don't see how Meachem fits the TO comparison at all. I'm talking about body type, speed, movement, agression, etc.

you're pimping Bowe as a great route-runner and tough guy over the middle, that is not TO, TO is the exact opposite in those respects

and I stated that as far as the explosive ability to gain yards after the catch, Meachem closely resembles TO in that respect moreso than any other WR in this draft, well, except for Ginn Jr. who's pretty good at getting YAC, but he's 180 while TO is 225 or so

the only thing that Bowe resembles TO in is size and body-type, I don't see TO's explosiveness in Bowe like I do in MEachem
 

theogt

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Bob Sacamano;1452258 said:
you're pimping Bowe as a great route-runner and tough guy over the middle, that is not TO, TO is the exact opposite in those respects

and I stated that as far as the explosive ability to gain yards after the catch, Meachem closely resembles TO in that respect moreso than any other WR in this draft, well, except for Ginn Jr. who's pretty good at getting YAC, but he's 180 while TO is 225 or so

the only thing that Bowe resembles TO in is size and body-type, I don't see TO's explosiveness in Bowe like I do in MEachem
Dude, those shallow and medium routes that are considered "West Cost" type routes are what TO has made a living on.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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theogt;1452225 said:
I think you can make some valid criticisms about Bowe, but route running simply isn't one, in my opinion. That's often the first compliment people give him.

I don't see it. I think he needs to work on that. I don't consider him a good route runner.
 

theogt

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ABQCOWBOY;1452283 said:
I don't see it. I think he needs to work on that. I don't consider him a good route runner.
Every receiver can work on that. That's just one of the things I like most about him when I watch him. Oh well...to each his own.
 

ABQCOWBOY

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theogt;1452285 said:
Every receiver can work on that. That's just one of the things I like most about him when I watch him. Oh well...to each his own.

Well said.
 

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theogt;1452273 said:
Dude, those shallow and medium routes that are considered "West Cost" type routes are what TO has made a living on.

TO is not a great route-runner, or tough across the middle, slants and curls are not hard routes to run
 

theogt

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Bob Sacamano;1452289 said:
TO is not a great route-runner, or tough across the middle, slants and curls are not hard routes to run
Ok. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 

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ABQCOWBOY;1452283 said:
I don't see it. I think he needs to work on that. I don't consider him a good route runner.

I'm with Theo on this, I don't know how you can consider him a poor route runner.
 
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