News: PFT: Mike McCarthy: We feel it's important to support Kelvin Joseph based on information we have

[HungryLion]

The first person to speak out about this was his lawyer when he admitted he was in the car but not a shooter. Joseph hasn't done anything without guidance from his lawyer and has kept a low profile and nose to the grindstone with his job.

I would be surprised if he is charged with anything because the two turned themselves in without incident, after he cooperated, and as far as we know, no further implication of Joseph in the shooting.

I would anticipate his lawyer wouldn’t let him speak without some
Assurances from the DA.


But I’m no lawyer.


All this stuff aside. I do think the morally right thing would have been for Joseph to come forward sooner and report what happened to the authorities. He didn’t. And that is bothersome to say the least.

cowboys aren’t going to cut him though. They’re going to protect their investment.

 

[CouchCoach]

Why would the DA charge Joseph? The entire criminal investigation system is built on "ladder up". Joseph is on a low rung with the shooters on the top two rungs and the goal is convictions.

Hell, they've let murderers and contract killers walk for testimony up the ladder.

For the public, which is better? Charge Joseph or get two shooters that shot in the open public off the streets?

Joseph did the right thing. Not in the time frame some of us would prefer and probably not if he hadn't been identified but the right thing being done, two animals off the street, is what is important.

However, the league is going to take a close look at that public fighting in the street just as they did Elliott at the parade. They are not concerned with justice, just the image of the NFL.

And what kind of mood do you think the other owners are in with the Cowboys that seem to shop for bad apples to put into their pie. And I think Booger underestimates the effect of his pie on the NFL bakery.

It seems it is not a Cowboys draft until he's taken some player with character questions like Williams this draft and Ball and Joseph, the previous one. There is a pattern going back to Pacman and Hardy.

 

[CouchCoach]

I would anticipate his lawyer wouldn’t let him speak without some
Assurances from the DA.


But I’m no lawyer.


All this stuff aside. I do think the morally right thing would have been for Joseph to come forward sooner and report what happened to the authorities. He didn’t. And that is bothersome to say the least.

cowboys aren’t going to cut him though. They’re going to protect their investment.

Yes, I agree they will not cut him because the bottom line is that Booger just doesn't give a damn about any of that. He has proven that over and over.

I do wonder at some point if Joseph will openly address his delay in coming forward but I will be surprised if he talks about this at all. When he "lawyered up" he went all in and that's the smartest thing he's done in all of this.

What is timely about this is John Oliver did one of his shows, after this happened, on just what the police are allowed to do in their interrogations and I gotta say, a cop says good morning to me, I am talking to an attorney before I reply. It was as scary as it gets of just what can happen to innocent people once in the system.

It is not about justice, it is all about closing cases and getting convictions.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

He cut a deal not to be charged and he had little choice in the matter since his lawyer had already admitted he was in the vehicle.

One of the most interesting parts of this is the expediency of this lawyer after the video surfaces and Joseph is identified. Before I could tell is that really him, the lawyer was already out there with statement, Joseph cut his deal and the two shooters turn themselves in. This all happened really fast considering it had been an open investigation for a month.

So, do you think Joseph retained this lawyer before his name even popped up to be ready when that other shoe dropped. I can only assume the things going through his head once the shock of the shooting, giving him the complete benefit of the doubt here, had worn off and he backtracked to everywhere he'd been with these two guys and what surveillance was around at those locations. Did he think 'it is just a matter of time' so he'd better get prepared or did he retain that lawyer when he knew he was being identified. And who helped him find that lawyer?

My point is he cut a deal to get off the failure to appear charge and not the murder charge.

 

[CouchCoach]

My point is he cut a deal to get off the failure to appear charge and not the murder charge.

How do we know what they were going to charge him with if he doesn't cut that deal? His lawyer already had him in the vehicle and he said he wasn't the shooter? Only one way to prove that.

His lawyer's statement was a plea for a deal to be offered. Why else go public with that?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You mentioned the reports in the post immediately before the one I'm quoting.

The Cowboys straight up said in the press release:

The Dallas Cowboys are aware of the tragic incident that occurred in Dallas on March 18. First and foremost, our hearts go out to Mr. Ray's family and loved ones. The organization is aware of Kelvin Joseph's possible connection to this incident. We are in contact with Dallas law enforcement and have alerted the NFL office.

What they do not say is who said what. You were giving specifics I have not seen in any report.

That is what I was asking about because you guys seem to love taken a little known info and then bias out speculation presented as fact.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

How do we know what they were going to charge him with if he doesn't cut that deal? His lawyer already had him in the vehicle and he said he wasn't the shooter? Only one way to prove that.

His lawyer's statement was a plea for a deal to be offered. Why else go public with that?

Because he isn't being charged with failure to appear. I guess the Dallas DA could just give him a pass and ignore it but I doubt it severely.

I didn't see the release form the lawyer as a message to the DA. I think it was to do with public opinion.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Why? Because you have some weird fascination with what motivates me. Like I said, ad hominem. You don't like what I say so you attempt to discredit me on a personal level.

You never told me your spooky stories. I'm a little disappointed.

You're the one telling me to wait and see for something their is zero indication will happen.

 

[TWOK11]

Yeah and that information is his crew kills people.

If your criteria for cutting players is “friends with guys who kill people” then I’ve got some bad news for you, friend.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yes, I agree they will not cut him because the bottom line is that Booger just doesn't give a damn about any of that. He has proven that over and over.

I do wonder at some point if Joseph will openly address his delay in coming forward but I will be surprised if he talks about this at all. When he "lawyered up" he went all in and that's the smartest thing he's done in all of this.

What is timely about this is John Oliver did one of his shows, after this happened, on just what the police are allowed to do in their interrogations and I gotta say, a cop says good morning to me, I am talking to an attorney before I reply. It was as scary as it gets of just what can happen to innocent people once in the system.

It is not about justice, it is all about closing cases and getting convictions.

I understand why many of the men around here would feel enfranchised given their demographics but the number of people that do not understand why some might not trust the police is baffling to me.

 

[CouchCoach]

Because he isn't being charged with failure to appear. I guess the Dallas DA could just give him a pass and ignore it but I doubt it severely.

I didn't see the release form the lawyer as a message to the DA. I think it was to do with public opinion.

Do you really think his lawyer had public opinion foremost on his mind or getting his client the best deal.

I do not recall a lawyer doing what his did before. No one knows what is really going on and he offers that up as "yes, my client was present but he did not do the crime". Failure to appear was not a priority, not being charged with murder was.

I think this was set up well ahead of time as the strategy once he was identified to limit public opinion. And we do not know when this lawyer became involved and exactly what he counseled him on about what to offer and when to offer it.

And the most important four words in that sentence above of any I have written about this subject are "we do not know". And we may never know the real truth.

 

[Haimerej]

Because he isn't being charged with failure to appear. I guess the Dallas DA could just give him a pass and ignore it but I doubt it severely.

I didn't see the release form the lawyer as a message to the DA. I think it was to do with public opinion.

Failure to appear for what? He have a court date no one knows about?/sarcasm

Is there some reason you skipped over Run's posted link to the article saying, "According to multiple sources, the Cowboys had encouraged Joseph to meet with the police regarding what he knows of the incident."

You're the one telling me to wait and see for something their is zero indication will happen.

*there

You wanted me to speculate, I did, and you called it mental gymnastics. Now you're speculating just like everyone else and complaining about someone saying, "wait and see," which is pretty much your whole point about me being a virtue signaler. Trying to have it both ways. Maybe go watch some more Stern. He's more your speed.

 

[Haimerej]

I understand why many of the men around here would feel enfranchised given their demographics but the number of people that do not understand why some might not trust the police is baffling to me.

There it is. "Given [our] demographics," huh? Look at Mr. Assumption over here playing the role of, "objective observer." Pathetic.

Straight up refusing to believe one reason people don't trust police could be because they committed a crime. Not possible in your rosy scenario where some people are just poor victims of circumstance and those who hold them accountable are bigots. At least you've laid bare your motivations, sad as they are.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you really think his lawyer had public opinion foremost on his mind or getting his client the best deal.

I do not recall a lawyer doing what his did before. No one knows what is really going on and he offers that up as "yes, my client was present but he did not do the crime". Failure to appear was not a priority, not being charged with murder was.

I think this was set up well ahead of time as the strategy once he was identified to limit public opinion. And we do not know when this lawyer became involved and exactly what he counseled him on about what to offer and when to offer it.

And the most important four words in that sentence above of any I have written about this subject are "we do not know". And we may never know the real truth.

I think he didn't need to make a press release to get the deal. It's pretty straightforward how district attorneys use those laws to leverage witnesses. I think the attorney stating that KJ was not armed and not the shooter were meant for the public and not the DA.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

There it is. "Given [our] demographics," huh? Look at Mr. Assumption over here playing the role of, "objective observer." Pathetic.

Straight up refusing to believe one reason people don't trust police could be because they committed a crime. Not possible in your rosy scenario where some people are just poor victims of circumstance and those who hold them accountable are bigots. At least you've laid bare your motivations, sad as they are.

My point from the start is that failure to report is inconclusive.

And you specifically have categorically denied any valid reason to not report. Deal with it.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Failure to appear for what? He have a court date no one knows about?/sarcasm

Is there some reason you skipped over Run's posted link to the article saying, "According to multiple sources, the Cowboys had encouraged Joseph to meet with the police regarding what he knows of the incident."



*there

You wanted me to speculate, I did, and you called it mental gymnastics. Now you're speculating just like everyone else and complaining about someone saying, "wait and see," which is pretty much your whole point about me being a virtue signaler. Trying to have it both ways. Maybe go watch some more Stern. He's more your speed.

I'm mocking you for doing it. "Keep wishcasting" seemed pretty obvious.

And the argument is not about whether the Cowboys knew before -they did- but instead who told them. People were making up stories again.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Do you really think his lawyer had public opinion foremost on his mind or getting his client the best deal.

I do not recall a lawyer doing what his did before. No one knows what is really going on and he offers that up as "yes, my client was present but he did not do the crime". Failure to appear was not a priority, not being charged with murder was.

I think this was set up well ahead of time as the strategy once he was identified to limit public opinion. And we do not know when this lawyer became involved and exactly what he counseled him on about what to offer and when to offer it.

And the most important four words in that sentence above of any I have written about this subject are "we do not know". And we may never know the real truth.

And its failure to report. class a misdemeanor. sorry I apparently need some caffeine.

 

[Ranching]

Modus operandi for any team with players they believe has talent to help them.

That the way it works...Jimmy did the same thing....turned a blind eye to the White House, drug use and other things but then cuts a no name, just to prove a point

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

That the way it works...Jimmy did the same thing....turned a blind eye to the White House, drug use and other things but then cuts a no name, just to prove a point

and Landry turned a blind eye to Martin's wife beating and Henderson being an out of control cokehead.

 

[Haimerej]

My point from the start is that failure to report is inconclusive.

And you specifically have categorically denied any valid reason to not report. Deal with it.

I've not heard a valid reason. Deal with that.