PFT: Reeves: “Coaches Never Punch A Clock”

dcfanatic

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cowboyed;2726908 said:
And you base this on what, your insight and intuition? Reeves pretty much stated that he didn't want his hours stipulated. At that level it shouldn't be an issue. No one at Valley Ranch made this an issue but Reeves. Maybe Jerry was a little sick and tired of some coaches not making the time commitment.

I have an employment agreement and it stipulates the minimum hours I need to work in exchange for compensation and benefits. I have no problem with it and neither does the majority of the US work force.

As far as Jerry wanting to be coach that is so overhyped and unfounded. A number of coaches including Avezzano indicated that Jerry does not want to coach but hey you know better....

Jerry is an active owner and general manager and he is fulfilling his obligations to the max no doubt. And whether you agree with his role or not that doesn't mean he has designs on coaching every opportunity he gets.

Name an NFL coach, assistant coach or consultant with this clause in their contract.

Who cares about your employment situation. You are not Dan Reeves.

Have you ever heard Jerry talk? If you did you would know he's a lot more involved in the X's and O's than a normal owner.

He's the GM. So I would think the guy who is making decisions on what types of players to sign and not to sign has a hand in knowing what the offense and defense are doing as far as scheme goes.

And Reeves didn't make it an issue because he didn't write the contract. Jerry did and he was the one who would not budge on the clause.

The people in here who are saying that Dan Reeves is the type of guy who just wanted to come in a few times a week and collect a free check are ridiculous. Makes me think that a mindset which is close to home for them.

I am sure Dan Reeves was going to be taking three hour lunches where he's off golfing like Steve Spurrier was while he was with the Commanders.

That's the ticket. That's how he found himself in the Super Bowl so many times as a player and coach.

Some people are such homers it makes you think they would literally jump off the top of the new stadium if Jerry asked them too.
 

Kangaroo

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dcfanatic;2726931 said:
Name an NFL coach, assistant coach or consultant with this clause in their contract.

Who cares about your employment situation. You are not Dan Reeves.

Have you ever heard Jerry talk? If you did you would know he's a lot more involved in the X's and O's than a normal owner.

He's the GM. So I would think the guy who is making decisions on what types of players to sign and not to sign has a hand in knowing what the offense and defense are doing as far as scheme goes.

And Reeves didn't make it an issue because he didn't write the contract. Jerry did and he was the one who would not budge on the clause.

The people in here who are saying that Dan Reeves is the type of guy who just wanted to come in a few times a week and collect a free check are ridiculous. Makes me think that a mindset which is close to home for them.

I am sure Dan Reeves was going to be taking three hour lunches where he's off golfing like Steve Spurrier was while he was with the Commanders.

That's the ticket. That's how he found himself in the Super Bowl so many times as a player and coach.

Some people are such homers it makes you think they would literally jump off the top of the new stadium if Jerry asked them too.

What I see so fr in the post is people do not understand service contracts and how they work in the Business world. I seen several different types when it came to projects in the real world for outside consultants in IT.

Guess what we payed outside consultants to complete this job for this price a lot. There hours where all over the place and we did not care it was did they get the job done.

So it really depends on what you are having the person does on service contracts.
 

dcfanatic

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Hypnotoad;2726924 said:
“I just couldn’t sign something that would mean I’d be working day-to-day.

Sounds like all he wanted was to get paid with little to no work. Nothing disrespectful about knowing how much actual work he put into the job.

LOL. You are misinterpreting the language in there.

He meant 'day to day' as in one day he wasn't there 8 hours Jerry could void the contract.

No that he didn't want to be there everyday.

Read the entire article, not the blurb from PFT...


Prospect of long hours a deal-breaker for Dan Reeves and Dallas Cowboys

By RAY BUCK
rbuck@star-telegram.com

No one was more shocked than Dan Reeves when things didn’t work out with the Dallas Cowboys two months ago.


Reeves, formerly an NFL head coach with the Denver Broncos, New York Giants and Atlanta Falcons, was hoping to return to a place where he had known success both as a player and an assistant coach, a place where he had spent 16 years of his life.

He was involved in all five Tom Landry Super Bowls.

But, unfortunately, things didn’t work out for Reeves because of a contractual technicality, which blew up a multiyear deal that appeared to be in place for the 65-year-old former Cowboys running back/assistant coach to become a consultant for his old team.

The deal-breaker, for Reeves, was a piece of "hours spent working" language that owner Jerry Jones wanted to have in the contract.

"Although I respected Jerry’s decision, I didn’t understand it, and it wasn’t something that was even negotiable," Reeves recalled from his home in Atlanta.

"I just couldn’t sign something that, in my opinion, would mean I’d be working day-to-day."

Worse yet, Reeves, who still has the itch to get back into the game, waved off a similar job (offensive coordinator) with the San Francisco 49ers.

Head coach Mike Singletary needed an answer, one way or the other, just a few days earlier.

Jones, meanwhile, wanted to wait until after Super Bowl XLIII in Tampa Bay to make a Valley Ranch announcement, according to Reeves, who never saw the deal being dashed over something so completely foreign to him.

"Coaches," Reeves said, "never punch a clock."

'Wade worked longer’

In 38 NFL seasons with four organizations (Cowboys, Broncos, Giants and Falcons), Reeves can never remember being questioned about his work ethic ... or asked to explain his hours.

"But for some reason, Jerry felt like he had to [have in writing] that I work as many, or more, hours as the head coach [Wade Phillips] and offensive coordinator [Jason Garrett]," Reeves explained.

"That meant, at any time, [Jones] could say, 'You didn’t work as many hours as Wade did yesterday, therefore, you’ve voided your contract.’ "

According to Reeves, it was Jones who suggested: "If I feel it’s important and you feel it’s something you can’t live with, why don’t we just part ways?"

That left Reeves to wonder: "Maybe it was a case of Jerry changing his mind [about me], and this was the way to get out of it. I don’t know."

Certainly, Jones has valued Reeves’ opinions in the past. For example, in January 2007, Jones was getting ready to hire Phillips when he phoned Reeves, who had been Wade’s boss in Denver and Atlanta.

"I told Jerry he was hiring a good man," Reeves recalled. "My relationship with Wade is one of the things I regret most that this [consultant’s job] didn’t work out."

What is a consultant?

Reeves was to lend his expertise in the passing game, help with the move to the new Arlington stadium, maybe even win back a few old Cowboys fans who lost interest after Landry was fired in 1989.

But Reeves saw it as "a great deal for me to be able to come back to where I started my career, to help a friend like Wade, and to be part of an organization that I think is very close [to returning to a Super Bowl], and has a chance to be one of those teams every year. Not all 32 teams can say that."

No regrets

Reeves showed up at Valley Ranch and worked for 2 1/2 days. He arrived Monday, Feb. 2 — a day after Pittsburgh beat Arizona 27-23 in SB XLIII.

Reeves sat in on several meetings with Garrett and the offensive coaches. Their main agenda: the running game. Reeves was eager to get started on the passing game.

"But I have to say, I was more excited showing up there Wednesday morning than I had been on Monday when I first got there," Reeves said. "Everything up to that point, I thought had gone very well."

The future of Terrell Owens was bandied around, but Reeves said he never had an inkling that T.O. was about to be released.

"It never came up — 'let’s make a decision on T.O.’ — while I was there," Reeves said. "I became aware there were mixed feelings on T.O., and that it was a big decision that had to be made, but that was about it."

He never met Tony Romo during those 2 1/2 days, yet Reeves sees the passing game as strong even without Owens (who was released March 4).

Reeves remembers Roy Williams as a senior at Texas in 2003.

"Roy Williams was one of the most talented receivers coming out of college that I had ever seen," said Reeves, whose last season as an NFL head coach (Atlanta) was that same year.

Garrett as an offensive coordinator?

"Jason is well-organized. He knows what he’s doing," Reeves said. "And there wasn’t a single coach in that [offensive meeting] room that wasn’t impressive to me."

Reeves felt comfortable, felt good, felt he was gaining a working knowledge of his next football team.

But he was wrong.

Asked if, in hindsight, he wished he had never bothered coming in, Reeves replied, "No ... I wish it had worked out."

Nine Super Bowls
Reeves’ NFL career spanned 38 seasons. He was involved in nine Super Bowls: five with the Cowboys, three with the Broncos, one with the Falcons.

He quickly did the math.

"There aren’t many people who can look back on their career and say they were in a Super Bowl almost one out of every four years," he said.

Reeves wasn’t bragging, rather, just showing his competitive side.

"Dan Reeves and Mike Ditka were as competitive as anybody on the team," said longtime Cowboys personnel man Gil Brandt, noting that both these
Landry favorites went on to have successful coaching careers of their own.

"Dan and Mike would do anything to compete, it didn’t matter what it was," Brandt recalled. "Checkers. Gin rummy. Golf. Darts. Basketball. And I’d say Dan would win about 95 percent of the time."

Reeves’ winning percentage in Super Bowls was a bit less than that. His only two rings came as a player/coach with the ’71 Cowboys and fulltime assistant with the ’77 Cowboys.

He was a former South Carolina quarterback who signed with the Cowboys as an undrafted free agent in 1965. In ’66, he led the team in rushing (757 yards) and was second in receiving (41 catches for 557 yards) only to Bob Hayes.

"Danny," as they called him then, scored a total of 16 touchdowns that year — eight rushing and eight receiving.

Two seasons later — Oct. 6, 1968, at St. Louis — Reeves "tore up" his left knee. It ended his season, and got him started on his second career.

Player-coach at 26
The Cowboys took running backs with their first-round picks in ’69 (Calvin Hill) and ’70 (Duane Thomas). Landry asked Reeves if he was interested in being a player-coach.

"I knew my [playing] career was coming to an end," said Reeves. "And I ended up learning so much from Coach Landry."

While Landry ranks third among all-time NFL coaches with 270 career wins, including the playoffs, Reeves is seventh on that same list with 201 victories.

Reeves has a 190-165-2 (.535) regular-season record, plus 11-9 in the postseason.

Reeves looks around the league at younger men doing his old job just fine, and has all but abandoned the dream of ever becoming an NFL head coach again.

"That’s probably wishful thinking," he said. "But anything’s possible."

Returning to the Cowboys as a consultant would have satisfied his itch and completed the career circle.

Reeves, most recently, has been a consultant to Georgia State, which will begin its football program in 2010. He hired longtime friend and fellow NFLer Bill Curry as head coach.

Reeves, a 7-handicap golfer who plays a couple of times a week (if he’s not punching a clock), also has been doing NFL games on radio for the Westwood One Network.

He and his wife, Pam, are celebrating their 45th year of marriage.

Life is good.

But it could’ve been even better.
--------------------------

Player coach at 26 years old, but he's the type of guy who wants to skirt responsibility and earn a free ride?

Shocked some are even writing that trash in here.
 

Hypnotoad

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dcfanatic;2726931 said:
Name an NFL coach, assistant coach or consultant with this clause in their contract.

I don't know contract details regarding other coaches.

What I do know is Jerry was concerned enough about Reeves slacking that he added that clause to his contract. Reeves had demands too, which were addressed but he was SO disrespected by Jerry's demand that Reeves was accessible that he could not possible take the job.

The people in here who are saying that Dan Reeves is the type of guy who just wanted to come in a few times a week and collect a free check are ridiculous. Makes me think that a mindset which is close to home for them.
You can make more assumptions regarding my employment situation, but you are wrong just like you are wrong about Reeves.

If you really think that Jerry would try to scam this guy over his work, I should just stop debating with you now.
 

Cowboys2008

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A consultant would have no requirement for time, so I can see how Jerry might fall reluctant at the last minute with the amount of money he was going to dish out, for basically a studio set advisor. And with the high profile'ness of this job with the Cowboys Reeves might be in high demand as far as media participation goes throughout a year. If Jerry was concerned his new toy might get distracted, I can understand.

As far as Reeves still holding on to this. He needs to just let it go. If he really wanted this job so bad, he should have done a better job of selling himself and convincing Jerry the job was what he was actually going to do without question. But apparently, Jerry did have question. And once it was asked, the answer came across loud n' clear.

IMO It seems as if Reeves wasn't as interested in working for the Cowboys as he was in promoting himself. And luckily, Jerry caught on before it was too late.
 

dcfanatic

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Hypnotoad;2726948 said:
I don't know contract details regarding other coaches.

What I do know is Jerry was concerned enough about Reeves slacking that he added that clause to his contract. Reeves had demands too, which were addressed but he was SO disrespected by Jerry's demand that Reeves was accessible that he could not possible take the job.

You can make more assumptions regarding my employment situation, but you are wrong just like you are wrong about Reeves.

If you really think that Jerry would try to scam this guy over his work, I should just stop debating with you now.

He wasn't trying to scam Reeves. And he sure wasn't worried about Reeves work ethic or he never would offered him the role in the first place.

He was trying to find a way to let him know he didn't want him around.

As in he changed his mind. Just like he changed his mind about Terrell Owens.

Jerry began this offseason completely frazzled after going thru that 2008 season.

So much so that he's just getting back to being Jerry.
 

burmafrd

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I put this on Jerruh. Remember Reeves is a big time Landry favorite and a big favorite of all the former owners. REEVES has 45 YEARS in the GAME. How much does Jerruh? REEVES was in the NFL when Jerruh was a snot nosed kid.
Reeves never won a SB as a head coach but got to several As a player and assistant coach and as coach. His resume is HUGE. So for Jerruh to insist on a certain amount of hours a day from a CONSULTANT= not a coach + and frankly that is stupid because we all know coaches work a whole lot more then 8 hrs a day anyway- is frankly an INSUlt. AND the fact that Jerruh added this tells me he wanted to back out of the deal. No one who knows Reeves would ever even CONSIDER that he would be a slacker.
 

DeaconBlues

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dcfanatic;2726945 said:
LOL. You are misinterpreting the language in there.

Player coach at 26 years old, but he's the type of guy who wants to skirt responsibility and earn a free ride?

Shocked some are even writing that trash in here.

Grand difference between the work ethic of a 26 year old and a 65 year old. You're making the same excuses for arguments on Reeves behalf that others are making for Jones.

You can't argue that he was willing to put in the hours. He stated he did not want to put in the hours Jones wanted.

The only argument is whether such time clauses are routine in NFL contracts for consultants. Likely (although I don't know, I'm only aware of the consultant contracts I've been involved in), there is no set wording. So it comes down to what Reeves viewed the job, and what Jones viewed the job.

Everything else is guesswork.
 

bbgun

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If Jerry was serious about bringing in a consultant (doubtful), then how come we still don't have one? Just because Reeves turned us down doesn't mean the need went away. This was never a "Reeves or nobody" proposition, so where's our consultant?
 

Randy White

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CowboyFan74;2726793 said:
And why would you require a "Consultant" to work the same amount of hours as the coaches?

Actually, I understand that part. Since a " consultant " is not a coach, he/she can say " well, I spent 5 minutes speaking with Wade about the offense, therefor my job is done ". It's not like scouts, who have turn in reports, or front office personnel, who have targeted or specific goals they must meet.

I have no problems with Jerrah doing this. If this was Dan Reeves' dream job, ( working for the Cowboys ) as he's been saying for years, he shoulnd't have a problem. I know I wouldn't. Jerrah tells me he's going to pay me as a consultant, he can put the amount of hours he wants on that contract and only death would prevent me from signing it.
 

Hypnotoad

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bbgun;2726966 said:
If Jerry was serious about bringing in a consultant (doubtful), then how come we still don't have one? Just because Reeves turned us down doesn't mean the need went away. This was never a "Reeves or nobody" proposition, so where's our consultant?

I guess Reeves is not serious about being a consultant either as his last consulting job was in 2007 (Georgia State).
 

Randy White

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dcfanatic;2726931 said:
Name an NFL coach, assistant coach or consultant with this clause in their contract..

Well, there's no need to put one for an NFL coach, or assistant, because you can actually measure their work. And I'm not talking about wins and losses, I'm talking about hours they put in.

Consultants ? Do you know of any, who do they work for , how much they make, and what's their duty specified on their contracts ?

The only one I've ever heard of was Ron Wolf, but I never heard what he made, with whom, or what specifically was he supposed to do for the teams he consulted.
 

theogt

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dcfanatic;2726931 said:
Name an NFL coach, assistant coach or consultant with this clause in their contract.
Apparently this is a common clause in Jerry's contracts. So basically everyone who's worked for Jerry is your answer.
 

Vintage

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theogt;2726980 said:
Apparently this is a common clause in Jerry's contracts. So basically everyone who's worked for Jerry is your answer.

You'd think Reeves would have known that heading in then, no?


Or let's flip this around....since people seem to be saying.... if Jerry really wanted Reeves.... he'd have done this or that.

Why not apply that to Reeves? If Reeves really wanted the position.....
 

theogt

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Vintage;2726981 said:
You'd think Reeves would have known that heading in then, no?


Or let's flip this around....since people seem to be saying.... if Jerry really wanted Reeves.... he'd have done this or that.

Why not apply that to Reeves? If Reeves really wanted the position.....
I honestly think he just didn't want to work coach's hours. Hell, he actually says he didn't want to work "day to day." I wanted him here, but screw that if he's not putting in the effort.
 

theogt

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bbgun;2726966 said:
If Jerry was serious about bringing in a consultant (doubtful), then how come we still don't have one? Just because Reeves turned us down doesn't mean the need went away. This was never a "Reeves or nobody" proposition, so where's our consultant?
Reeves was a one of a kind deal. Jerry stated this and it's kinda obvious if you think about it, because of Reeves' and Phillips' relationship.
 

dcfanatic

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M'Kevon;2726961 said:
Grand difference between the work ethic of a 26 year old and a 65 year old. You're making the same excuses for arguments on Reeves behalf that others are making for Jones.

You can't argue that he was willing to put in the hours. He stated he did not want to put in the hours Jones wanted.

The only argument is whether such time clauses are routine in NFL contracts for consultants. Likely (although I don't know, I'm only aware of the consultant contracts I've been involved in), there is no set wording. So it comes down to what Reeves viewed the job, and what Jones viewed the job.

Everything else is guesswork.

You are another one who is misinterpreting the 'day to day' comment.

He was saying he doens't want to have his contract voided if he works 10 hours one day on a Friday and he winds with 59 hours for the week and Jerry voids the contract.

I give up on this issue.

Tell me one thing anyway.

Who was going to keep track of Dan Reeves and how many hours he was working anyway? That in itself makes this entire issue of the clause in the contract completely stupid.

So stupid it only had one agenda.

To let Dan Reeves know that something was amiss.

Reeves got the hint and moved on.

And Jerry got what he wanted.
 

InmanRoshi

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jterrell;2726921 said:
Jerry makes some odd decisions at time but he is not stupid with money. .

You must have missed the last TO contract extension. Which exemplified that Jerry will basically hand out blank checks if he really wants them here.
 

dcfanatic

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theogt;2726980 said:
Apparently this is a common clause in Jerry's contracts. So basically everyone who's worked for Jerry is your answer.

It was ADDED to the contact.

What do ADDED mean to you?

It means it wasn't in the original one that Reeves agreed to. That's why he was there on Monday and Tuesday and Wednesday morning.

Then something changed.

So if it was in every contract that's ever been done with Jerry and his employees what happened here?

They forgot it this one time? lol.

It's not in any contracts ever done with Jerry and his employees.
 

tunahelper

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Can anyone give actual examples of NFL consultant contracts?

For all of Jerry Jones faults, being fair to Dallas players and coaches is not one of them. His record is solid and even Jimmy says he was leaving back then no matter what.

I have to give Jerry the edge here even though I wanted Reeves onboard. Maybe Jerry is classy enough not to mention why he put that clause on Reeves? None of us know, but with Reeves continuing crying makes me side more and more with Jerry here.
 
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