Plane crashes into Austin office building

ScipioCowboy

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CowboyMcCoy;3281518 said:
You're simply wrong.

Take it up with the folks at Prentice Hall, one of the foremost educational publishers in the US.

Their textbooks are claiming the Tax Reform Act of 1986 simplified the tax laws. I'm merely reporting it.

I guess it depends on your definition of simple. Just pick up the phone book and ask any tax lawyer if tax law is simple. You'd surely be in for a rude awakening.

He may have been disturbed, but his analogy about the tax codes is spot on.

Where, pray tell, did I say that tax law was simple?
 

CowboyMcCoy

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ScipioCowboy;3281525 said:
Take it up with the folks at Prentice Hall, one of the foremost educational publishers in the US.

Their textbooks are claiming the Tax Reform Act of 1986 simplified the tax laws. I'm merely reporting it.



Where, pray tell, did I say that tax law was simple?

You said it was never simple but that it was simplified. Point taken. That said, it's still the toughest area of law you'd ever imagine practicing. There are literally TRUCK LOADS of tax laws, most of which can be interpreted to favor the rich.
 

ScipioCowboy

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CowboyMcCoy;3281534 said:
You said it was never simple but that it was simplified. Point taken. That said, it's still the toughest area of law you'd ever imagine practicing. There are literally TRUCK LOADS of tax laws, most of which can be interpreted to favor the rich.

I agree with you completely on these points. However, if we acknowledge there are lawyers capable of interpreting the laws to their benefit, we must also acknowledge there are lawyers who have a functional and workable understanding of tax laws.

Maybe you can take something positive from this tragedy, Ben. Maybe it can inspire you to actually go into tax law, and work it for the benefit of the poor and middle class. That would be infinitely more beneficial than anything Mr. Stack did.
 

LilTexan

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Wow. This whole thing is incredibly sad. :(

A cursory glimpse at the day's news, what or whomever the source, is always a quick and poignant reminder why I generally try to avoid all news these days.

This world sucks.
 

HardHittin'Witten

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I live just down 183 from where this happened. It has been pretty crazy here today. When tragic things like this happen and you see it on the news, it's one thing, but to actually see something like this is unreal.
 

RS12

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I just dont understand why when people get pissed off or feel hopeless and decide to chuck it all, why do they feel they have the right to take other innocent people with them?
 

WoodysGirl

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Small plane crashes into Austin building

One of 2 recovered bodies may be pilot's

By TERRI LANGFORD and R.G. RATCLIFFE
HOUSTON CHRONICLE

Feb. 18, 2010, 8:20PM

260xStory.jpg

Pam Parker

An undated photo shows Joseph Andrew Stack, whose anger toward the IRS apparently led to the plane crash. He seems to have developed a following on Facebook.


AUSTIN — Two bodies have been recovered after what authorities called a suicide attack by a man who, apparently angry at the Internal Revenue Service, flew his small plane into a northwest Austin office building.

FBI spokesman Eric Vasys said one of the bodies is believed to be that of the pilot, Joseph Andrew Stack, the Austin American-Statesman reported on its Web site.

Two people were critically injured in the Thursday morning crash at the seven-story building that houses some IRS offices. One person out of the 190 IRS employees who work at the building remained unaccounted for Thursday evening. Whether the second body recovered was that person has not been determined.

The plane was owned by Stack, whose home burned down Thursday morning before his plane hit the building at 9430 Research Blvd. A Web site registered to him featured a long complaint against the tax system, capitalist greed, his accountant, former President George W. Bush and other targets.

The site is titled, "Well Mr. Big Brother IRS man ... take my pound of flesh and sleep well." The note and other documents indicate Stack moved from California to Austin after the dot-com bust.

Calls to the accountant and Stack's ex-wife were not immediately returned.

Austin police declined to discuss the house fire and Internet manifesto.

The Piper Cherokee took off from Georgetown Municipal Airport Thursday morning and struck the building before 10 a.m., federal officials said.

The structure that was hit houses private firms and government offices, including the IRS' criminal investigation unit. Tax returns are not processed there, officials said.

Austin Assistant Fire Chief Harry Evans said it appeared the plane struck the second floor. The building was heavily damaged, particularly the second and third floors. Officials said the IRS occupies the lower part of the building.

Police said two people were hospitalized and one person was missing.

At a news conference Thursday afternoon, Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo said he would not release the name of the employee. He said the family has been contacted.

"We’ll just say that prospects are not very positive for that person at this time."

James Hawley, Austin EMS division chief, said the two injured were taken to Brackenridge Hospital in Austin. One was transferred to Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio. Both were male and had burn-related injuries. He could not say if the injuries were life-threatening.


'Mysterious barrel' at airport
Georgetown airport was evacuated Thursday afternoon while authorities searched Stack's hangar at the airport as well as the car he parked there. FBI officials were looking at a "mysterious barrel" in the hangar, but authorities later said the situation was clear.

IRS Commissioner Doug Shulman Thursday afternoon released a statement saying the agency is still in the process of accounting for all of its 190 Austin employees.

"We are working with law enforcement agencies to fully investigate the events that led up to this plane crash," the statement read.

The Austin American-Statesman reported that eyewitnesses said the plane appeared to strike the Echelon 1 building at full throttle.

Peggy Walker, an IRS revenue officer who works in the building, said she was sitting at her desk when the plane crashed.

“It felt like a bomb blew off. The ceiling caved in and windows blew in. We got up and ran,” she said.

Matt Farney, 39, who was in the parking lot of a nearby Home Depot, said he saw a low-flying private plane near some apartments and the office building just before it crashed.

“I figured he was going to buzz the apartments or he was showing off,” Farney said, adding that the plane dipped down. “It was a ball of flames that was high or higher than the apartments. It was surreal. It was insane. ... It didn’t look like he was out of control or anything.”


'Distraught' family
Just a few miles away at the destroyed home, Stack's ex-wife and daughter huddled in a neighbor's house. American Red Cross official Marty McKellips said the family did not want to speak to the media.

"They are remarkably calm, but of course they are distraught because this is a traumatic situation," McKellips said. "They’re watching the news."

Neighbor Dane Vick said he called 911 to report the house on fire after hearing an explosion about 9 a.m.

"You could see glittering in the air," Vick said. "It was shattered glass hitting the ground."

Vick said he ran over to the back fence of the home and started calling in, but no one appeared to be in the house. He said flames started coming out of the windows almost immediately.

Vick said the neighborhood is an affluent one, with doctors, lawyers, engineers and employees of Dell Computer Corp. living there.

Elbert Hutchins, a 67-year-old retired office manager, lives two houses down from Stack on Dapplegrey Lane.

Hutchins said he was working on his computer and his wife was watching TV about 9:15 a.m. Thursday when he heard a loud noise, "like a car crash."

He and his wife went out into their front yard and saw flames and dense smoke billowing from the second-story windows of Stack's house. They also called 911.

Firefighters arrived within minutes, Hutchins said, but "at that point there was no hope of saving that house." The place was gutted, he said. "The roof fell in and it's a brick veneer home and pretty much just the brick walls are still standing."

A crowd gathered to watch the firefighters douse the blaze.

"Someone said they saw something on TV about a plane hitting an office building," Hutchins said. He and his wife went back inside and turned on the television. They had no idea the fire at Stack's home and the plane crash was connected until media and federal agents descended on their neighborhood.

Hutchins said Stack moved into the neighborhood with a woman and a girl about two years ago. He said he never noticed anything unusual about the man.

"We didn't know him at all," he said.

Acevedo, the police chief, called Thursday's incident "a criminal act," but U.S. Rep. Michael McCaul, R-Texas, said it smacked of terrorism.

"When you fly an airplane into a federal building (to kill federal employees), it sounds like (terrorism) to me," said McCaul, a member of the House Homeland Security Committee.

McCaul noted that the Piper airplane is one of the smaller planes made and still caused devastating damage to the building.

"If a small aircraft can do that kind of damage, imagine a Gulfstream," he said. "Look at the devastation behind me. It's really extraordinary," McCaul said.


Fans on Facebook

Several Facebook Fan sites emerged, expressing sympathy, if not praise, for Stack.

"Welcome to the Joe Stack fan site. Dedicated to a man, frustrated as so many of us are with our corrupt, inept government, sacrificed his life to make a statement. Will history see him as a patriot or terrorist? Depends on who is doing the writing," said one "angry citizen" who created the "The Joe 'Take My Pound Of Flesh' Stack Anti-IRS Fan Page site."

On a "Joseph Andrew Stack, we salute thee" Facebook site, Shawna Lynn wrote: "Without doing something drastic his words would be payed no attention to. People were hurt but the situation could have been worse. he could have done worse. Suicide isnt covered in the media.. A plane crash into the IRS building.. NEWS WORTHY! i agree with his actions and if i could meet him i would shake his hand."

Langford reported from Houston. The Chronicle's Lindsay Wise, the San Antonio Express-News and Associated Press contributed to this report.

terri.langford@chron.com

r.g.ratcliffe@chron.com

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/metropolitan/6873108.html
 

theogt

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CowboyMcCoy;3281489 said:
The reality of it is, no code on the books today "simplifies" tax codes. Ask many of the lawyers on this board. They will tell you. I'm merely an aspiring lawyer at this point. And I will never touch tax law because it's simply too complicated.

And you nor I could even begin to count the statutes that have been made since 1986.
This is why I always suggest that people take tax in law school. In no way, shape, or form will you ever force yourself to learn the basics of tax law when you're in practice. Most law you can pick up on the fly, but not tax. The only way to learn it is in a classroom where someone is forcing you to learn it.
 

theogt

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ScipioCowboy;3281543 said:
I agree with you completely on these points. However, if we acknowledge there are lawyers capable of interpreting the laws to their benefit, we must also acknowledge there are lawyers who have a functional and workable understanding of tax laws.

Maybe you can take something positive from this tragedy, Ben. Maybe it can inspire you to actually go into tax law, and work it for the benefit of the poor and middle class. That would be infinitely more beneficial than anything Mr. Stack did.
The reason the code is so dense is because people look for holes. The code is a hodge podge of government plugging holes.
 

CowboyMcCoy

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theogt;3281981 said:
This is why I always suggest that people take tax in law school. In no way, shape, or form will you ever force yourself to learn the basics of tax law when you're in practice. Most law you can pick up on the fly, but not tax. The only way to learn it is in a classroom where someone is forcing you to learn it.

No thanks, theo. :) My passion is criminal law. I'm sure my CZ fans will love reading that. LOL
 

peplaw06

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theogt;3281981 said:
This is why I always suggest that people take tax in law school. In no way, shape, or form will you ever force yourself to learn the basics of tax law when you're in practice. Most law you can pick up on the fly, but not tax. The only way to learn it is in a classroom where someone is forcing you to learn it.
It was required for my school. Strangely enough, I sort of enjoyed the class, because it was such a challenge. And I had a great prof that made it as simple as possible. But we maybe covered 5-10% of the tax code in a semester. Still got that huge blue book in my office. Reminds me of the nightmares I used to have :)
 

ScipioCowboy

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peplaw06;3282010 said:
It was required for my school. Strangely enough, I sort of enjoyed the class, because it was such a challenge. And I had a great prof that made it as simple as possible. But we maybe covered 5-10% of the tax code in a semester. Still got that huge blue book in my office. Reminds me of the nightmares I used to have :)

Can you shed any light on the specific section (1706, I believe) that he referenced?

Was it not one of those "hole plugging" endeavors to which Theo referred?
 

theogt

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peplaw06;3282010 said:
It was required for my school. Strangely enough, I sort of enjoyed the class, because it was such a challenge. And I had a great prof that made it as simple as possible. But we maybe covered 5-10% of the tax code in a semester. Still got that huge blue book in my office. Reminds me of the nightmares I used to have :)
I actually enjoyed it as well. I went on to take several advanced tax courses. Even considered being a tax lawyer, because I enjoyed structuring transactions. Then I realized I can do that without having to deal with the tax issues. :)
 

peplaw06

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ScipioCowboy;3282048 said:
Can you shed any light on the specific section (1706, I believe) that he referenced?

Was it not one of those "hole plugging" endeavors to which Theo referred?
No idea....

I'll be happy to research it for you... $200.00 an hour. PM me your address..... :D
 

Cajuncowboy

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The federal tax code should be placed on the back of a post card in 15 pt. font and sent out to every person 18 or over on Jan 1st of each year.

There is no reason for the cumbersome verbiage we have now.
 

CowboyMcCoy

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Cajuncowboy;3282265 said:
The federal tax code should be placed on the back of a post card in 15 pt. font and sent out to every person 18 or over on Jan 1st of each year.

There is no reason for the cumbersome verbiage we have now.

It's not just the verbiage. Like theo said, tax law is full of loopholes. So that's why I was telling Scipio that it's never simple. It's a confusing mess that even the best tax lawyers get stumped over.
 

Cajuncowboy

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CowboyMcCoy;3282355 said:
It's not just the verbiage. Like theo said, tax law is full of loopholes. So that's why I was telling Scipio that it's never simple. It's a confusing mess that even the best tax lawyers get stumped over.

True. I meant that it needs to be simplified to the point where it is a simple flat tax and there is no loopholes.

Preferably, I would prefer an overall federal consumption tax and get rid of the IRS as we know it all together.

That way everyone who is making a purchase contributes in their own economic situation equally.

I would also exclude certain necessary items from this tax to ensure people weren't burdened buying food and such.
 
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