Polamalu vs. Woodson

[dallasdave]

I hate the Steelers but that doesn't prevent me from being honest and objective. The great thing about threads like these are they expose the biased armchair FANS.

The greatest thing about these threads is they expose the real die hard Cowboy fans from the armchair Cowboy fans. Diehard Cowboy fans are not going to kiss up to steelers , Commanders, and Eagles.

 

[dallasdave]

#bam.

Well said indeed sir.

 

[dallasdave]

Oh, and Darren Woodson also played special teams basically his entire career in Dallas. Coaches couldn't get him to play "just defense."

Transcendent talent, as Future said. It's not close. Polamalu is just a media and fan favorite for a handful of splash plays on a media darling franchise.

I second this motion.

 

[tyke1doe]

But that's part and parcel. If Polamalu had gone to another team, who did not allow him to play Robber, but instead, played him in a more traditional Safety role, he may not have been discussed as a great player either because, while he was great in that scheme, he was nothing special in coverage IMO. I take nothing away from either player and I agree that the chances of Polamalu getting into the Hall before or even in and Woody not, are probably much better. Having said that, I look at each player and think in terms of what I would want if it were me making the decisions on scheme and fits.

But you can't do that. You can't play the what if game. We judge players based on what they did for the teams they played on.
Maybe Archie Manning would have been a Super Bowl winning quarterback had the Steelers picked him. Maybe Emmitt Smith would have been an ordinary back had he played for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
We just don't know that, and we can't evaluate that.
What we CAN evaluate is how they played for the teams that chose them and whether they were at the top of their game and their era while they played.
Moreover, credit the Steelers for putting Polamalu in a system that used his unique skills and talents. Criticize the Cowboys for not doing the same for Woodson.
But that's not something you can consider because it falls in the land of the hypothetical and theoretical. And the realm of reality trumpets the land of hypotheticals.

 

[xwalker]

I understand. But Polamalu and Woodson weren't contemporaries.

Be that as it may, I'm okay if you think Woodson was better. I just don't think so. No sense in arguing 20 pages about it.

I can't say with 100% certainty who was better; however, the idea that it's not even a consideration that someone here keeps repeating is silly. There were definitely some parts of playing Safety where Woodson was better (man coverage on slot receivers) and I'm certain that Woodson was at least as good in run defense.

Great is such a subjective term and we know that flash tends to get more accolades than consistency and precision. My belief is that very few fans have studied Polamalu's game footage in depth and most opinions are based on media reviews and sports center highlights.

Regardless of who is better, Woodson should be in the HOF, IMO. The fact that those teams had so many star players actually hurts Woodson's recognition. How many players did the Steelers have during Polamalu's tenure like Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, Haley, Erik Williams, Larry Allen, etc.?

 

[CowboyMike]

This entire thread just reinforces how biased and delusional Cowboy FANS are and will always be.

You say that like it is a sin to be a FAN.

 

[CowboyMike]

That's your opinion. But Polamalu will have no problem getting into the NFL Hall of Fame. Woodson won't have such an easy road, if he ever gets in.

If Darren Woodson had been a Steeler then he would be a Hall of Famer by now. No question.

But he was a Cowboy, so he isn't. And it doesn't help that a large part of your fans and local media don't go to bat for you.

 

[dallasdave]

You say that like it is a sin to be a FAN.

Yeah, we are Cowboy fans, and darn proud ones at that.

 

[dallasdave]

If Darren Woodson had been a Steeler then he would be a Hall of Famer by now. No question.

But he was a Cowboy, so he isn't. And it doesn't help that a large part of your fans and local media don't go to bat for you.

Right, and it does not help that some people on the board want to crow about the steelers, kind of makes me sick.

 

[Dodger12]

I'm not a homer by any stretch as many here would probably attest to but if I had a choice between Woodson and Polamalu, I'm taking Woodson. The man was a complete safety that could do it all. Some folks here are not giving him his due and I can understand part of it especially since he's being compared to Polamalu who was a great player as well and I give the man props for being a future HOFer and a quality person from all accounts. Woody also suffered from being on some pretty bad or declining Cowboys teams for probably half his career so his impact was negated by the team's lack of success. The one thing I will say is the fact that the guy isn't in the ROH is a shame, especially when Jerry went outside the ranks and put Haley in.

 

[tyke1doe]

If Darren Woodson had been a Steeler then he would be a Hall of Famer by now. No question.

There's absolutely no way to prove this. So it's really a pointless comment.

But he was a Cowboy, so he isn't. And it doesn't help that a large part of your fans and local media don't go to bat for you.

You apparently are missing the point of this discussion. I don't think Woodson was better than Polamalu. That doesn't mean I don't want Woodson to make the Hall. I want as many Cowboys in the Hall as possible.

I can't understand why so many of you interpret any opinion that places another player above a Cowboy as a person being against the Cowboys. Just because I think Brady is a better quarterback than Romo doesn't mean I like the Patriots better than the Cowboys.

 

[tyke1doe]

Right, and it does not help that some people on the board want to crow about the steelers, kind of makes me sick.

Who's crowing about the Steelers?

 

[Toruk_Makto]

Woodson was a lot better. There aren't very many defensive backs in history that could hit like a linebacker, run like a cornerback, and man cover slot WRs with ease.

If covering nobody your entire career and being a freelancer earns you hall of fame consideration, then where's the talk about Ed Reed? He was head and shoulders better than Polamalu.

Ed will end up in canton as well.

 

[tyke1doe]

You say that like it is a sin to be a FAN.

I think a distinction needs to be made between being a COWBOYS fan and being a fan of a particular player.

I wasn't a T.O. fan. But I was a Cowboys fan. You don't cease being a fan of the team just because you don't like a particular player on the team or think another player for another team is better than the player on your favorite team.

To think otherwise is not fandom but homerism.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

But you can't do that. You can't play the what if game. We judge players based on what they did for the teams they played on.
Maybe Archie Manning would have been a Super Bowl winning quarterback had the Steelers picked him. Maybe Emmitt Smith would have been an ordinary back had he played for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.
We just don't know that, and we can't evaluate that.
What we CAN evaluate is how they played for the teams that chose them and whether they were at the top of their game and their era while they played.
Moreover, credit the Steelers for putting Polamalu in a system that used his unique skills and talents. Criticize the Cowboys for not doing the same for Woodson.
But that's not something you can consider because it falls in the land of the hypothetical and theoretical. And the realm of reality trumpets the land of hypotheticals.

But that's what we've been doing this whole thread. We are saying that Polamalu is better, based on what he did in his playing career in Pittsburgh and Woodson is not as good. This assumption is made, based on the fact that Polamalu played in a system that was much more friendly towards his position playing a much bigger role (from a play making stand point), while ignoring the fact that if Polamalu had to play in the role Woody played in in Dallas would have probably left him with a career that was pretty average. Now, because Polamalu didn't do that, there is some latitude there. We can't say for sure he would have been burnt toast but we can look at how Polamalu played and what his physical attributes allowed him to do. Polamalu, while great in Pittsburgh, could not have played Safety for us at the level Woody did. It's all a hypothetical discussion when you get right down to it because both players didn't play in like schemes. The discussion starts of as a hypothetical and extends from there.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Polamalu was drafted by Pittsburgh to play a more traditional safety but Bill Cowher said his instincts kept taking over and because off all the plays he was making he and his staff decided to allow Polamalu to free lance. Once a great coach recognizes a player has a special ability they allow that player to play to their strength even if it's outside the framework of their scheme. Tom Landry wanted plays run as designed he demanded it and when a pass was called he wanted Staubach to throw the ball not run with it. Staubach taking off and running drove Landry nuts but he kept making plays and allowed him to do it.

He did the same thing with Dorsett who's playmaking instincts would take over. Dorsett wouldn't always run a play where it was designed to go and it drove Landry crazy but he kept breaking off big plays so Landry announced to the team that Tony is a different type of runner and we're going to allow him to make plays. Jimmy was a great coach and like Cowher would have recognized Polamalu's instinctive playmaking talents and would have freed him up. Jimmy didn't treat every player the same he said so himself and he would have let Polamalu make plays all over the field.

I'm not so sure he was drafted to play a more traditional role. I mean, I have no proof that he was not but I do look at what Pittsburgh did with Donnie Shell and that was very similar. I think Pittsburgh has a bit of a tradition in the role their safeties play. I do agree with you on Lebeau. I think he saw the player and the scheme fit and went with it. It's kinda what he does. He's a good Coach.

 

[tyke1doe]

But that's what we've been doing this whole thread. We are saying that Polamalu is better, based on what he did in his playing career in Pittsburgh and Woodson is not as good. This assumption is made, based on the fact that Polamalu played in a system that was much more friendly towards his position playing a much bigger role (from a play making stand point), while ignoring the fact that if Polamalu had to play in the role Woody played in in Dallas would have probably left him with a career that was pretty average. Now, because Polamalu didn't do that, there is some latitude there. We can't say for sure he would have been burnt toast but we can look at how Polamalu played and what his physical attributes allowed him to do. Polamalu, while great in Pittsburgh, could not have played Safety for us at the level Woody did. It's all a hypothetical discussion when you get right down to it because both players didn't play in like schemes. The discussion starts of as a hypothetical and extends from there.

I disagree. First, we're not saying Woodson "is not as good." We're saying Polamalu "is better". There's a difference in emphasis.

Second, we're not engaging in hypotheticals. We're evaluating Polamalu based on what he did with the Steelers. He's being judged on that, not on whether he would have been a great player had he been in another system.
We can't know that. We can know what he did with the Steelers, which is why most football people think he will be a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

It didn't even cross my mind, before this thread, to compare Polamalu and Woodson. But if the comparison is being made, I think Polamalu was the better player, and that's based on his overall contribution to his team and to the game. While playing, he was definitely the best safety in the game along with Ed Reed.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

What is the difference between saying "Woodson is not as good" and "Polamalu is better then Woodson"?

On your second point, how can you compare a player who played in a Robber Safety role and one who played both FS and SS in a traditional Safety scheme? I just don't see how you can do that. They are completely different in terms of responsibilities and style of play.

 

[KJJ]

I'm not so sure he was drafted to play a more traditional role. I mean, I have no proof that he was not but I do look at what Pittsburgh did with Donnie Shell and that was very similar. I think Pittsburgh has a bit of a tradition in the role their safeties play. I do agree with you on Lebeau. I think he saw the player and the scheme fit and went with it. It's kinda what he does. He's a good Coach.

Like I mentioned Bill Cowher was interviewed on NFLN the day Polamalu retired and was asked when he realized he had something special in Polamalu. He said initially he struggled playing a disciplined scheme because he was having to think and was slow to react. His instincts began taking over and he started making plays all over the field. Cowher said he was making so many plays they decided to free him up. Regardless of what scheme you run there's going to be some guessing involved playing safety.

When the Cowboys drafted Randy White they drafted him to play LB but he didn't have the instincts to play the position. He was always a beat off because he was having to think so the Cowboys decided to move him back to his natural position and the rest is history. If you're going to get the most out of a player you have to play to their strength.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Like I mentioned Bill Cowher was interviewed on NFLN the day Polamalu retired and was asked when he realized he had something special in Polamalu. He said initially he struggled playing a disciplined scheme because he was having to think and was slow to react. His instincts began taking over and he started making plays all over the field. Cowher said he was making so many plays they decided to free him up. Regardless of what scheme you run there's going to be some guessing involved playing safety.

When the Cowboys drafted Randy White they drafted him to play LB but he didn't have the instincts to play the position. He was always a beat off because he was having to think so the Cowboys decided to move him back to his natural position and the rest is history. If you're going to get the most out of a player you have to play to their strength.

Thanks for posting this. I can only speak on what I saw from Polamalu. I just didn't think he was that good of a coverage safety. Great player, don't get me wrong. He was perfect for what Pittsburgh did with him but I think he's a JAG if he played in a traditional Safety role. JMO