Polamalu vs. Woodson

[tyke1doe]

Drew Person, Harvy Martin.

And I raise you a Michael Irvin, a Charles Haley, a Randy White, a Jerry Rice, and a Reggie White.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

The same could be said about Joe Montana or Troy Aikman or Steve Young (if he had stayed with the Buccaneers).
Whether scheme or not, Polamalu took advantage of the scheme he was in. That's all he can do. And he was dang good at it.

I, personally, don't see the need to compare Cowboys players to other great players. It's like guys comparing Johnson sizes. Why would you want to do such a thing? But if you're going to pull it out and compare, well, then Polamalu was better than Woodson. That's not a knock on Woodson. He was very good at what he did. I just think Polamalu was better and made more of a big-play impact on his defense than Woodson did on the Cowboys defense.

That's true. I don't think anybody is saying that Polamalu was not a great player. He took an opportunity and ran with it, probably all the way to the Hall. However, Woodson was bigger, he was faster and he was able to do things, athletically, that Polamalu could not. The schemes allowed for different styles of play. Fortunately for Polamalu, those differences allowed him to make lots of plays.

I would take Woodson because I feel as if he was a better fit for what I would want out of my Safety. Because of what Woodson was, he could play both Strong and Free. Polamalu could not have done that. I just feel as if Woodson, for what I would want, would be better. It's not really about Cowboy Bias, so to speak. If we were having the same discussion about Woodson and Reed, I would take Ed Reed. Just how I see it.

 

[tyke1doe]

That's true. I don't think anybody is saying that Polamalu was not a great player. He took an opportunity and ran with it, probably all the way to the Hall. However, Woodson was bigger, he was faster and he was able to do things, athletically, that Polamalu could not. The schemes allowed for different styles of play. Fortunately for Polamalu, those differences allowed him to make lots of plays.

I would take Woodson because I feel as if he was a better fit for what I would want out of my Safety. Because of what Woodson was, he could play both Strong and Free. Polamalu could not have done that. I just feel as if Woodson, for what I would want, would be better. It's not really about Cowboy Bias, so to speak. If we were having the same discussion about Woodson and Reed, I would take Ed Reed. Just how I see it.

Fair enough. That was a well-reasoned argument. Thanks for being able to communicate your position without resorting to childish "Oh, you must be a Steelers fan/Cowboys hater" comments. Refreshing, I say.

I don't know if Woodson was as fluid as Polamalu, but I agree that he was stronger. He played linebacker in college.

And, for what it's worth, I think he should be in the Hall of Fame, but the safety position is a bit devalued compared to other defensive positions. Be that as it may, we're simply voicing our opinions. I'm good with your argument.

 

[KJJ]

Drew Person, Harvy Martin.

Both were better players than Woodson but losing out to the Steelers in those 2 SB's hurt their HOF chances. Martin isn't even in the ROH. Woodson has the rings to get into the HOF but he played a position that hasn't produced many Hall of Famers. As of 2012 only 7 full time safeties were in the HOF. Steve Atwater and John Lynch have yet to be added and both are rated higher than Darren Woodson. With Polamalu and Ed Reed being HOF locks Woody will never make the HOF and is currently a borderline ROH candidate.

 

[xwalker]

And I raise you a Michael Irvin, a Charles Haley, a Randy White, a Jerry Rice, and a Reggie White.

?

 

[xwalker]

Both were better players than Woodson but losing out to the Steelers in those 2 SB's hurt their HOF chances. Martin isn't even the ROH. Woodson has the rings to get into the HOF but he played a position that hasn't produced many Hall of Famers. As of 2012 only 7 full time safeties were in the HOF. Steve Atwater and John Lynch have yet to be added and both are rated higher than Darren Woodson. With Polamalu and Ed Reed being HOF locks Woody will never make the HOF and is currently a borderline ROH candidate.

It shows that no HOF does not prove a player was not great.

 

[KJJ]

It shows that no HOF does not prove a player was not great.

A player can be great within their own franchises history but not when it comes to HOF standards because they're competing against every player who ever played the game including the ones who played their position. The word "great" is overused. Woodson was a "very good" player but he wasn't even considered "great" by his own organization or at least not by Jerry or he would be in the ROH.

 

[xwalker]

A player can be great within their own franchises history but not when it comes to HOF standards because they're competing against every player who ever played the game including the ones who played their position. The word "great" is overused. Woodson was a "very good" player but he wasn't even considered "great" by his own organization or at least not by Jerry or he would be in the ROH.

There are plenty of non Cowboys fans that think Harvey Martin should be in the HOF.

 

[KJJ]

There are plenty of non Cowboys fans that think Harvey Martin should be in the HOF.

I'm sure there are he was a very good player but he got overshadowed by Randy White to the point where he hasn't been added to the ROH. Had he not had to share the SB MVP award along with White in SB XII it would have benefitted him more in my opinion. When you have one GREAT player like Randy White that can cancel out some of the players around them. White was such a standout player that he garnered most of the spotlight. Drew Pearson was a "great" player but he got pushed to the side by the great performances of Stallworth and Swann in the SB's. The Steeler's players got the HOF nods due to their wins over the Cowboys in those SB's.

 

[xwalker]

I'm sure there are he was a very good player but he got overshadowed by Randy White to the point where he hasn't been added to the ROH. Had he not had to share the SB MVP award along with White in SB XII it would have benefitted him more in my opinion. When you have one GREAT player like Randy White that can cancel out some of the players around them. White was such a standout player that he garnered most of the spotlight. Drew Pearson was a "great" player but he got pushed to the side by the great performances of Stallworth and Swann in the SB's. The Steeler's players got the HOF nods due to their wins over the Cowboys in those SB's.

Were those WRs really better than Drew?

 

[Future]

Jimmy Johnson isn't in the ROH. Does that mean he wasn't "great."

Using ROH as evidence of a player not being great is seriously flawed.

 

[xwalker]

Jimmy Johnson isn't in the ROH. Does that mean he wasn't "great."

Using ROH as evidence of a player not being great is seriously flawed.

Good point. Is Deion in the ROH?

 

[KJJ]

Were those WRs really better than Drew?

In SB's they were which is why both Swann and Stallworth are in the HOF.

 

[KJJ]

Good point. Is Deion in the ROH?

The Cowboys had already won 2 SB's by the time Deion arrived. In the one SB win he was part of in Dallas the Cowboys other CB Larry Brown was the games MVP. Deion arrived when the Cowboys were on the way down he played for whoever paid him. He doesn't deserve to be in the Cowboys ROH.

 

[KJJ]

Jimmy Johnson isn't in the ROH. Does that mean he wasn't "great."

Using ROH as evidence of a player not being great is seriously flawed.

Jimmy isn't in the ROH for obvious reasons where have you been? Jerry still hasn't mended all the fences with Jimmy and probably never will. It's not like they parted on good terms after the 93 season. It's pretty obvious why Jimmy isn't in the ROH and according to Jerry he'll never be added. The ROH is solid evidence that a player was a "great" player within their franchise it's a teams HOF. Jerry has no beef with Darren Woodson he obviously didn't think he was as good as Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin, Allen and Charles Haley all of which are HOF players.

 

[Future]

Jimmy isn't in the ROH for obvious reasons where have you been? Jerry still hasn't mended all the fences with Jimmy and probably never will. It's not like they parted on good terms after the 93 season. It's pretty obvious why Jimmy isn't in the ROH and according to Jerry he'll never be added. The ROH is solid evidence that a player was a "great" player within their franchise it's a teams HOF.

Except for the fact that clearly it isn't b/c Jimmy isn't in.

Maybe Woody slept with Charlotte. Maybe he punched Stephen once. Maybe Jerruh is just a closet racist.

There are a million reasons why someone might not get into the ROH.

 

[xwalker]

In SB's they were which is why both Swann and Stallworth are in the HOF.

That's not really proof of overall talent level.

The HOF has to draw boundries but that does not make it a definitive measure lf talent level.

Erik Williams was one of the best OL ever before the car crash but he can't be in the HOF because of the short time span of greatness. Nevertheless he was better at his peak than some players that are in the HOF.

 

[tyke1doe]

?

You cited Cowboys who should be in the Hall, I cited Cowboys and non-Cowboys who are IN the Hall based on being the top players at their position in their era.
Polamalu was among the two best safeties (the other being Ed Reed) in his era. And those guys tend to get elected to the Hall of Fame.
That is my point in citing all of these worthy Hall of Fame players.

 

[xwalker]

The Cowboys had already won 2 SB's by the time Deion arrived. In the one SB win he was part of in Dallas the Cowboys other CB Larry Brown was the games MVP. Deion arrived when the Cowboys were on the way down he played for whoever paid him. He doesn't deserve to be in the Cowboys ROH.

You're proving my point. Not being in the ROH is not proof that he was not a great player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You cited Cowboys who should be in the Hall, I cited Cowboys and non-Cowboys who are IN the Hall based on being the top players at their position in their era.
Polamalu was among the two best safeties (the other being Ed Reed) in his era. And those guys tend to get elected to the Hall of Fame.
That is my point in citing all of these worthy Hall of Fame players.

I don't think he was among the two best safeties of his era. I know many may agree with you but I, personally, would say that the two best Safeties were Reed and Dawkins and the line starts after them. JMO.