Polamalu vs. Woodson

[KJJ]

Except for the fact that clearly it isn't b/c Jimmy isn't in.

Maybe Woody slept with Charlotte. Maybe he punched Stephen once. Maybe Jerruh is just a closet racist.

There are a million reasons why someone might not get into the ROH.

If Jimmy isn't in the ROH due to the wounds that have yet to be healed from he and Jerry's breakup than why hasn't Jerry added him? Jerry claimed he hasn't aded Jimmy to the ROH and never will because he feels the honor should go to the players who performed on the field but Jerry added Landry and Tex Schramm to the ROH.

 

[xwalker]

You cited Cowboys who should be in the Hall, I cited Cowboys and non-Cowboys who are IN the Hall based on being the top players at their position in their era.
Polamalu was among the two best safeties (the other being Ed Reed) in his era. And those guys tend to get elected to the Hall of Fame.
That is my point in citing all of these worthy Hall of Fame players.

We all know the HOF process is not the best. It is based on the opinions of people (media) and flash/stats weighs heavily in their opinions.

I used the Farve/Aikman comparison already. Another is Emmitt/Barry Sanders. Most media rank Barry over Emmitt but if you want to win Super Bowls, Emmitt is the best choice because he was better at short yardage, pass blocking and probably receiving and he was mentally as tough as it gets and played through pain.

 

[KJJ]

That's not really proof of overall talent level.

The HOF has to draw boundries but that does not make it a definitive measure lf talent level.

Erik Williams was one of the best OL ever before the car crash but he can't be in the HOF because of the short time span of greatness. Nevertheless he was better at his peak than some players that are in the HOF.

If you listen to a few of the Steelers players they've admitted some of them wouldn't be in the HOF had it not been for those 4 SB wins. A lot of NFL experts have claimed the Steelers 2 SB wins over the Cowboys are the reason more of their players from the 70's made the HOF than the Cowboys. Even a HOF committee member admitted players who were part of dynasties are going to get looked at a lot harder. Talent level is measured by stats and the number of championship teams a player is part of. Dave Robinson of the Packers who had very similar stats to Chuck Howley was voted into the HOF ahead of him due to the Packers championship wins over the Cowboys during the 60's and the many championships he was apart of in Green Bay.

 

[KJJ]

You're proving my point. Not being in the ROH is not proof that he was not a great player.

Deion was a great player for 2 other teams prior to coming to Dallas and is in the Falcons ROH. It's obvious why he will never be added to the Cowboys ROH. It's obvious why Jimmy hasn't been added to the ROH but we have at least one FAN who hasn't a clue as to why.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't think he was among the two best safeties of his era. I know many may agree with you but I, personally, would say that the two best Safeties were Reed and Dawkins and the line starts after them. JMO.

To be fair, Dawkins came into the league in 1996, Polamalu in 2003.
But comparing their stats when Dawkins was in Philly and Polamalu in Pittsburgh, Dawkins doesn't out perform Troy in the span between 2003 and 2008, Polamalu made more tackles than Dawkins in four of the six years; each tied in the number of sacks they had over those six years and they tied for number of interceptions, though Polamalu's highest interception total was seven compared to Dawkins' four.
Just looking at those stats, I don't necessarily think you can say Dawkins was better than Polamalu.

 

[tyke1doe]

We all know the HOF process is not the best. It is based on the opinions of people (media) and flash/stats weighs heavily in their opinions.

I used the Farve/Aikman comparison already. Another is Emmitt/Barry Sanders. Most media rank Barry over Emmitt but if you want to win Super Bowls, Emmitt is the best choice because he was better at short yardage, pass blocking and probably receiving and he was mentally as tough as it gets and played through pain.

I understand. But Polamalu and Woodson weren't contemporaries.

Be that as it may, I'm okay if you think Woodson was better. I just don't think so. No sense in arguing 20 pages about it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

To be fair, Dawkins came into the league in 1996, Polamalu in 2003.
But comparing their stats when Dawkins was in Philly and Polamalu in Pittsburgh, Dawkins doesn't out perform Troy in the span between 2003 and 2008, Polamalu made more tackles than Dawkins in four of the six years; each tied in the number of sacks they had over those six years and they tied for number of interceptions, though Polamalu's highest interception total was seven compared to Dawkins' four.
Just looking at those stats, I don't necessarily think you can say Dawkins was better than Polamalu.

Dawkins could cover. He was a FS who, like Woodson, could play either position. The tackle numbers are not a very good indicator IMO because Polamalu played much closer to the LOS. He should be making more tackles but if I'm comparing those two players, I'm looking at the fact that Dawkins could cover the Deep Third and make a play. Polamalu could not do that.

 

[KJJ]

I used the Farve/Aikman comparison already. Another is Emmitt/Barry Sanders.

You consider a Polamalu/Woodson comparison on par with those? You compared 4 first ballot Hall of Famers many sensible, knowledgable fans have compared them. Comparing Woodson with Polamalu is like comparing a Mercedes with a Nissan. Polamalu is a first ballot HOF lock while Woodson didn't even make the 90's all decade team and isn't even in his own teams HOF after 13 years of retirement. Go listen to what the experts (coaches/players/GM's) are saying about Polamalu are they all wrong?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You consider a Polamalu/Woodson comparison on par with those? You compared 4 first ballot Hall of Famers many sensible, knowledgable fans have compared them. Comparing Woodson with Polamalu is like comparing a Mercedes with a Nissan. Polamalu is a first ballot HOF lock while Woodson didn't even make the 90's all decade team and isn't even in his own teams HOF after 13 years of retirement. Go listen to what the experts (coaches/players/GM's) are saying about Polamalu are they all wrong?

I don't think you can listen to what folks are saying right now. Everybody is going to paint the best possible picture of Polamalu now because that's what you do when great players retire. In a few years, you will have a better idea of what everybody generally thinks of Polamalu. JMO

 

[tyke1doe]

Dawkins could cover. He was a FS who, like Woodson, could play either position. The tackle numbers are not a very good indicator IMO because Polamalu played much closer to the LOS. He should be making more tackles but if I'm comparing those two players, I'm looking at the fact that Dawkins could cover the Deep Third and make a play. Polamalu could not do that.

I'll check to see who had the most interceptions during that time period. I closed the sites and don't feel like pulling them back up right now.

 

[tyke1doe]

I don't think you can listen to what folks are saying right now. Everybody is going to paint the best possible picture of Polamalu now because that's what you do when great players retire. In a few years, you will have a better idea of what everybody generally thinks of Polamalu. JMO

Did they say the same about Woodson when he retired?

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Did they say the same about Woodson when he retired?

I'm sure they probably did. I don't honestly recall but I'd feel comfortable saying they probably did. Nobody wants to be that guy who talks down on a player who is retiring.

 

[tyke1doe]

I'm sure they probably did. I don't honestly recall but I'd feel comfortable saying they probably did. Nobody wants to be that guy who talks down on a player who is retiring.

I don't recall the same talk for Woodson. I recall them saying he was steady and consistent and a very good safety. But I don't recall anyone saying he's Hall of Fame worthy.
I think in Woodson's case, his career has improved and gotten better the farther away he gets from his actual playing days.
People really like him because he's very polished, clean-cut and likeable as a football commentator. And, he was a part of the great Cowboys teams of the 90s. Honestly, I think that's why he's even in consideration. If we hadn't won those Super Bowls, I don't think he's even in the Hall of Fame conversation.

But, like I said, safety is an overlooked position. And though I don't expect him to make the Hall, I'm pulling for him if there's an outside chance he could make it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't recall the same talk for Woodson. I recall them saying he was steady and consistent and a very good safety. But I don't recall anyone saying he's Hall of Fame worthy.
I think in Woodson's case, his career has improved and gotten better the farther away he gets from his actual playing days.
People really like him because he's very polished, clean-cut and likeable as a football commentator. And, he was a part of the great Cowboys teams of the 90s. Honestly, I think that's why he's even in consideration. If we hadn't won those Super Bowls, I don't think he's even in the Hall of Fame conversation.

But, like I said, safety is an overlooked position. And though I don't expect him to make the Hall, I'm pulling for him if there's an outside chance he could make it.

But that's part and parcel. If Polamalu had gone to another team, who did not allow him to play Robber, but instead, played him in a more traditional Safety role, he may not have been discussed as a great player either because, while he was great in that scheme, he was nothing special in coverage IMO. I take nothing away from either player and I agree that the chances of Polamalu getting into the Hall before or even in and Woody not, are probably much better. Having said that, I look at each player and think in terms of what I would want if it were me making the decisions on scheme and fits.

 

[KJJ]

I don't think you can listen to what folks are saying right now. Everybody is going to paint the best possible picture of Polamalu now because that's what you do when great players retire. In a few years, you will have a better idea of what everybody generally thinks of Polamalu. JMO

I don't remember anyone painting the kind of picture of Woody after he retired that we're seeing with Polamalu. I know social media wasn't what it is today when Woody retired but Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin and Larry Allen received plenty of accolades after they left the game but not so with Woodson. Polamalu made a huge impact that will be appreciated for many years to come. You really find out how great a player is and what kind of impact they made on the game by the amount of media coverage their retirement gets.

NFLN devoted most their show to Polamalu the day he announced his retirement. When most players retire not much is made of it but the respect that Polamalu has received the past few days from players, coaches and everyone around the NFL is unlike anything I've seen in awhile. A player's retirement doesn't receive this much attention unless they were really special and Polamalu was a special player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I don't remember anyone painting the kind of picture of Woody after he retired that we're seeing with Polamalu. I know social media wasn't what it is today when Woody retired but Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin and Larry Allen received plenty of accolades after they left the game but not so with Woodson. Polamalu made a huge impact that will be appreciated for many years to come. You really find out how great a player is and what kind of impact they made on the game by the amount of media coverage their retirement gets.

NFLN devoted most their show to Polamalu the day he announced his retirement. When most players retire not much is made of it but the respect that Polamalu has received the past few days from players, coaches and everyone around the NFL is unlike anything I've seen in awhile. A player's retirement doesn't receive this much attention unless they were really special and Polamalu was a special player.

That's audience and ratings driven. I don't think it's honest evaluation of the actual player and I certainly don't think it's a very good measure of how good a player might be. People who may have an opinion of a player that is not flattering may not even voice such an opinion in situations like this. They may just stay quiet until such time as an opinion other then "All Time Great" might be more generally accepted. At least, that's what I think of it.

 

[KJJ]

That's audience and ratings driven. I don't think it's honest evaluation of the actual player and I certainly don't think it's a very good measure of how good a player might be. People who may have an opinion of a player that is not flattering may not even voice such an opinion in situations like this. They may just stay quiet until such time as an opinion other then "All Time Great" might be more generally accepted. At least, that's what I think of it.

Be completely honest would you have made the comments you've made in your last 2 posts had Polamalu played for the Cowboys? None of your opinions throughout this entire thread have been influenced by your loyalty to the Cowboys?

 

[perrykemp]

Erik Williams was one of the best OL ever before the car crash but he can't be in the HOF because of the short time span of greatness. Nevertheless he was better at his peak than some players that are in the HOF.

Sorta what I would call the Gales Sayers exception.

A few players in in the past 2-3 decades I have been watching the NFL fall into this category of being better than a bunch of other of their contemporaries who are in the HOF but aren't there due to injuries/sickness/etc.

Erik Williams, Kenny Easley, and Sterling Sharpe all come to mind. Maybe to a lesser extent Bob Sanders as well.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Be completely honest would you have made the comments you've made throughout this thread had Polamalu played for the Cowboys? Nothing you've said has been influenced by your loyalty to the Cowboys?

Completely honest? I don't think I ever would have had to because I don't think Polamalu would have been great in Dallas. Here, he would have had to play a more traditional Safety role and he probably wouldn't have had the kind of career he's had in Pittsburgh.

Nothing I have said has been influenced by the fact that I am a Cowboy fan but everything I have said has been influenced by that fact that I would pick the player that fits the kind of defense I would want to play. I would not want to play an OU defensive style.

 

[KJJ]

Completely honest? I don't think I ever would have had to because I don't think Polamalu would have been great in Dallas. Here, he would have had to play a more traditional Safety role and he probably wouldn't have had the kind of career he's had in Pittsburgh.

Nothing I have said has been influenced by the fact that I am a Cowboy fan but everything I have said has been influenced by that fact that I would pick the player that fits the kind of defense I would want to play. I would not want to play an OU defensive style.

Polamalu was drafted by Pittsburgh to play a more traditional safety but Bill Cowher said his instincts kept taking over and because off all the plays he was making he and his staff decided to allow Polamalu to free lance. Once a great coach recognizes a player has a special ability they allow that player to play to their strength even if it's outside the framework of their scheme. Tom Landry wanted plays run as designed he demanded it and when a pass was called he wanted Staubach to throw the ball not run with it. Staubach taking off and running drove Landry nuts but he kept making plays and allowed him to do it.

He did the same thing with Dorsett who's playmaking instincts would take over. Dorsett wouldn't always run a play where it was designed to go and it drove Landry crazy but he kept breaking off big plays so Landry announced to the team that Tony is a different type of runner and we're going to allow him to make plays. Jimmy was a great coach and like Cowher would have recognized Polamalu's instinctive playmaking talents and would have freed him up. Jimmy didn't treat every player the same he said so himself and he would have let Polamalu make plays all over the field.