News: Pollard can't be "the guy."

[cnuball21]

Yes the better overall runner. Not the better overall player. That’s the big difference

TP
- Lateral agility
- Burst
- Quickness
- Home run speed
- Receiver
- YPA
- Yards after contact

Zeke
- Pass pro
- Short yardage
- Endurance

What am I missing? How is Zeke better now, now 3 years ago?

 

[cnuball21]

You don't think that was a result of his agent whispering in his ear about how much money that comment was costing him? As for not paying RBs big money.. I agree if you're not going to use him.. but if the Cowboys would have continued to lean on Zeke for 300+ touches a year he absolutely would have earned his money and frankly IMHO they would have won more. But the contract is water under the bridge. You don't like it.. fine.. I don't care about it.

As for big plays? I guarantee you that if you switch the roles between Zeke and Pollard where you make Pollard the guy who softens up the defense (and the one the DC spends the entire week game planning for) and Zeke the guy who comes in fresh Zeke's big play numbers would go way up and Pollard's would come way down. Pollard was create against the Bears.. wunnerful..

Here are the Bears run defense numbers game by game:

Game 1 - 176 yards to the 49ers
Game 2 - 203 to the Packers
Game 3 - 92 to the Texans
Game 4 - 262 to the Giants
Game 5 - 117 to the Vikings
Game 6 - 128 to the Commanders
Game 7 - 70 to the Pats
Game 8 - 200 to the Cowboys
Game 9 - 77 to the Phish.

6 of 9 opponents have topped 100 yards and 3 of 9 have hit 200.

Pollard and the Cowboys running game did what they were SUPPOSED to do to them.

It does nothing to erase the .75 ypc against Washington or the 1.3 ypc against Tampa.. Or the fact that he averaged over 2 yards per carry LESS than Zeke against the Eagles. I mean if we're going to look at the picture let's not block out the parts we don't wanna see. I like Pollard in the role he's in. I think if he comes in and balls he should be allowed to continue to tote the rock. If comes in and delivers < a yard per carry then he should go back to the bench and let Zeke tenderize the defense a little more. Fine if folks disagree with that take.. I aint changin it.

ICYMI - “It’s also a false narrative a RB needs the defense to be “broken” before they can make a big play. It’s just not accurate. Henry just busted a 24 yarder at the start of the 2nd in his last game. Didn’t need someone to wear the defense down and he didn’t need 25 carries to do it.” That’s looking up 1 player and me not even trying.

I’m all about big picture and actually prefer doing that to evaluate. If you have any actual statistics for this year that favor Zeke I’m all for it and all ears. The eyeball test and “Zeke wears them down” to me again is a false narrative.

Pollard aside, look at his peers. Gave an example on Henry, and Chubb has 85+ yards on less than 20 carries in 5 games this year. Zeke has 0.

 

[RonnieT24]

All I can say is you haven’t been paying attention and how they use each other. you have a sledgehammer, and you have a slasher. Four games without Elliot and Tony Pollard will not be running the same .

Say it louder for the people in the back. These people who want to take these small sample sizes and extrapolate them through a whole season are simply ignoring basic facts about playing running back in the NFL. A fact that they themselves use to justify not wanting to see Zeke any more. No sane person can reasonably argue that a guy with Pollard's build, who has never handled even half the load Zeke has dating back to college, will not suffer from the effects of being the guy with the bullseye on him week in and week out. You play more you get hit more you slow down more and you produce fewer explosive plays. The only difference is that with his build and make up it won't take three years for Pollard to wear down.. It would likely be more like three games.. People who argue against this simply never toted the rock in a real tackle football game. If they had they would understand that Pollard needs to be sprinkled in as appropriate.. not dumped into the fire..

 

[Whirlwin]

You just took away from Tony making excuses about the Bears game.

It’s also a false narrative a RB needs the defense to be “broken” before they can make a big play. It’s just not accurate. Henry just busted a 24 yarder at the start of the 2nd in his last game. Didn’t need someone to wear the defense down and he didn’t need 25 carries to do it.

The offensive line has a lot to do with it yes of course. But if you don’t think Wearing down a defense in the fourth quarter helps a running back. I don’t know how to answer that

 

[cnuball21]

The offensive line has a lot to do with it yes of course. But if you don’t think Wearing down a defense in the fourth quarter helps a running back. I don’t know how to answer that

Of course it does, but some are acting like Pollards big plays are only a result of Zeke “wearing down the defense” when that is false.

I just gave an example using Henry and that was looking up 1 player and 1 game. I didn’t even have to try.

 

[Whirlwin]

Of course it does, but some are acting like Pollards big plays are only a result of Zeke “wearing down the defense” when that is false.

I just gave an example using Henry and that was looking up 1 player and 1 game. I didn’t even have to try.

It’s not only because of Elliott, Tony has talent But wearing down a defense in the fourth quarter when games are won or lost. Don’t try to tell me it doesn’t help.

 

[RonnieT24]

ICYMI - “It’s also a false narrative a RB needs the defense to be “broken” before they can make a big play. It’s just not accurate. Henry just busted a 24 yarder at the start of the 2nd in his last game. Didn’t need someone to wear the defense down and he didn’t need 25 carries to do it.” That’s looking up 1 player and me not even trying.

I’m all about big picture and actually prefer doing that to evaluate. If you have any actual statistics for this year that favor Zeke I’m all for it and all ears. The eyeball test and “Zeke wears them down” to me again is a false narrative.

Pollard aside, look at his peers. Gave an example on Henry, and Chubb has 85+ yards on less than 20 carries in 5 games this year. Zeke has 0.

First of all nobody needs the defense to be "worn down" if the line blasts open a gaping hole. I don't believe anybody has ever stated what you're arguing against. So the false narrative you're fighting is one you created. The statements are what pertains to THIS team and THIS scheme. The Cowboys run WAY too much out of shotgun for one thing. They also run Zeke almost exclusively up the middle early in games.. It appears their strategy is to try and wear the defense down. I guarantee you that if they called some wide runs where the first guy he has to worry about is a 195 pound DB early in games Zeke wouldn't shake them off and demand to run it into the 300 pounders inside. Did you happen to notice they didn't start the game running Pollard into the teeth of the defense against Chicago? Only 3 of his 14 runs were up the middle.. and one other was through the B gap. The rest were off tackle and outside. Great against a bottom feeder defensive front.. Against a better front the results would be drastically different.. as we have seen.


Those other backs you mention get much better run blocking and play selection than what Moore typically saddles Zeke with. As I've said many times.. the running game has been an afterthought or a placeholder for him way too often. I have come to terms with this being how they're going to use Zeke for the remainder of his time in Dallas. It stinks but it's not going to change. I am actually cheering for him to leave Dallas at the end of the season and go somewhere where they line him up deep and hand him the ball downhill. Then let's see if he is truly washed up or if he was just being wasted in Dallas. Could you imagine him in Shanahan's system? My word!!!

 

[cnuball21]

It’s not only because of Elliott, Tony has talent But wearing down a defense in the fourth quarter when games are won or lost. Don’t try to tell me it doesn’t help.

I replied “of course it does.”

 

[cnuball21]

First of all nobody needs the defense to be "worn down" if the line blasts open a gaping hole. I don't believe anybody has ever stated what you're arguing against. So the false narrative you're fighting is one you created. The statements are what pertains to THIS team and THIS scheme. The Cowboys run WAY too much out of shotgun for one thing. They also run Zeke almost exclusively up the middle early in games.. It appears their strategy is to try and wear the defense down. I guarantee you that if they called some wide runs where the first guy he has to worry about is a 195 pound DB early in games Zeke wouldn't shake them off and demand to run it into the 300 pounders inside. Did you happen to notice they didn't start the game running Pollard into the teeth of the defense against Chicago? Only 3 of his 14 runs were up the middle.. and one other was through the B gap. The rest were off tackle and outside. Great against a bottom feeder defensive front.. Against a better front the results would be drastically different.. as we have seen.


Those other backs you mention get much better run blocking and play selection than what Moore typically saddles Zeke with. As I've said many times.. the running game has been an afterthought or a placeholder for him way too often. I have come to terms with this being how they're going to use Zeke for the remainder of his time in Dallas. It stinks but it's not going to change. I am actually cheering for him to leave Dallas at the end of the season and go somewhere where they line him up deep and hand him the ball downhill. Then let's see if he is truly washed up or if he was just being wasted in Dallas. Could you imagine him in Shanahan's system? My word!!!

That’s fine, we can stick to this team just trying to offer a different perspective.

Our current run rate is 71% from under center (highest in NFL is 80%) so I’m not sure I’d agree we run WAY too much from the gun. I’d have to go back and dig up some tape but also don’t think this was an issue for Zeke early in his career - I remember Dak was raw as a rookie so we’re operating heavily out of the gun.

He runs up the middle a lot because he doesn’t have the burst to take it outside anymore.

We’re currently 7th in run block win rate, ahead of both Cle and Ten. Zeke is getting good blocking.

Agree 100% on Moore - not a fan and think he could do a better job of utilizing the players he has.

 

[FalseStart75Pozderac]

Honestly I do find this debate intriguing, although the same arguments are repeated over and over.

Can we agree that we got a good thing going with both of them. Some games Pollard's skill set is needed more than Zeke, and then some games Zeke's skill set is needed more than Pollard.

The key is realizing which one is needed in certain situations - we simply can't have our love for Pollard or Zeke have us blinded to the point we completely ignore the other.

If Zeke is seen as the modern day John Riggins struggling to average 4.0 ypc (Riggins was at 3.6-3.8 during the Skins SB years), then so be it - still a valuable piece that cant be ignored or under appreciated.

If Pollard is seen as the modern day Warrick Dunn splitting carries with Mike Alstott, then so be it as well. Both guys shined.

 

[cnuball21]

Honestly I do find this debate intriguing, although the same arguments are repeated over and over.

Can we agree that we got a good thing going with both of them. Some games Pollard's skill set is needed more than Zeke, and then some games Zeke's skill set is needed more than Pollard.

The key is realizing which one is needed in certain situations - we simply can't have our love for Pollard or Zeke have us blinded to the point we completely ignore the other.

If Zeke is seen as the modern day John Riggins struggling to average 4.0 ypc (Riggins was at 3.6-3.8 during the Skins SB years), then so be it - still a valuable piece that cant be ignored or under appreciated.

If Pollard is seen as the modern day Warrick Dunn splitting carries with Mike Alstott, then so be it as well. Both guys shined.

100%...we've got an awesome tandem. I'd argue one of the best in the league. We need them both.

Some of us just think Zeke isn't the same guy he used to be and TP has earned more reps.

 

[RonnieT24]

That’s fine, we can stick to this team just trying to offer a different perspective.

Our current run rate is 71% from under center (highest in NFL is 80%) so I’m not sure I’d agree we run WAY too much from the gun. I’d have to go back and dig up some tape but also don’t think this was an issue for Zeke early in his career - I remember Dak was raw as a rookie so we’re operating heavily out of the gun.

He runs up the middle a lot because he doesn’t have the burst to take it outside anymore.

We’re currently 7th in run block win rate, ahead of both Cle and Ten. Zeke is getting good blocking.

Agree 100% on Moore - not a fan and think he could do a better job of utilizing the players he has.

All runs to the outside don't depend on speed.. They depend on blocking.. specifically WR blocking. NFL OLBs can come destroy your wide plays if your receivers and tight ends don't seal them off. Ditto for DBs if the receivers just wave at them as they run by instead of blocking. I don't think it's any coincidence that longer outside runs have ticked up since Schultz got hurt and the youngsters have had to step in. All three of them are better blockers than he is... And basically as soon as they learn the offense he's outta here.

 

[cnuball21]

All runs to the outside don't depend on speed.. They depend on blocking.. specifically WR blocking. NFL OLBs can come destroy your wide plays if your receivers and tight ends don't seal them off. Ditto for DBs if the receivers just wave at them as they run by instead of blocking. I don't think it's any coincidence that longer outside runs have ticked up since Schultz got hurt and the youngsters have had to step in. All three of them are better blockers than he is... And basically as soon as they learn the offense he's outta here.

100% agree…that being said at this point in his career Zeke is best as a North/South runner.

Moore could do a better job bouncing a few outside for him to keep the defense guessing but not his strength due to his current skill set.

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

Honestly I do find this debate intriguing, although the same arguments are repeated over and over.

Can we agree that we got a good thing going with both of them. Some games Pollard's skill set is needed more than Zeke, and then some games Zeke's skill set is needed more than Pollard.

The key is realizing which one is needed in certain situations - we simply can't have our love for Pollard or Zeke have us blinded to the point we completely ignore the other.

If Zeke is seen as the modern day John Riggins struggling to average 4.0 ypc (Riggins was at 3.6-3.8 during the Skins SB years), then so be it - still a valuable piece that cant be ignored or under appreciated.

If Pollard is seen as the modern day Warrick Dunn splitting carries with Mike Alstott, then so be it as well. Both guys shined.

Precisely. We are blessed and yet sit here bickering about it. Yes....we have fans here calling zeke trash. Toast. Ditch him now. Regardless of what a certain someone here claims.

The key....isnt a specific number of carries. It is like you said...game plan....and adjust as the game progresses. Keep them guessing and their ears pinned.

 

[Proof]

Not if he's only doing it every third game and has too many 8 carries for 9 yards type games he's not. The fact of the matter is good defensive fronts have stonewalled Pollard on more than one occasion .. while Zeke might drop from 5.5 ypc against chumps to 4.5 ypc against decent fronts to 3.5 ypc against good fronts, Pollard has gone from 7 ypc against chumps, 5 ypc against decent all the way down to < 2 ypc against good fronts.. His highs are higher but his lows are lower. Which I guess works to a point but which one you prefer is kind of a vanilla/chocolate/strawberry kinda question. You also have to ask yourself which you're more likely to see come playoff time. I know what my guess would be..

To me it still comes back to needing both because having both enables you to play different styles and different styles force defenses to prepare for and defense differently. To me that's advantage Cowboys.. It also bears stating again that playing Pollard more tires him out and will eventually cause him to lose that big play ability. The physical beating of fighting through a good front 7 versus a triple A team front 7 like the Bears is a real thing. Fortunately for us, Green Bay is another patsy defense. If Zeke sits I fully expect Pollard to eat against them. If Zeke plays I expect him to do likewise.

well said, and also have to account for the fact that zeke is the primary goal line and short yardage back. that's going to buoy his avg naturally. I love Tony, and probably prefer him to Zeke at this point, but the ypc discrepancy isn't entirely honest

 

[SteveTheCowboy]

well said, and also have to account for the fact that zeke is the primary goal line and short yardage back. that's going to buoy his avg naturally. I love Tony, and probably prefer him to Zeke at this point, but the ypc discrepancy isn't entirely honest

Thank you. I have been looking for a way to say that as succinctly as you did. I think I have been trying to hard...hitting it with a sledge hammer.

You hit it out of the park with a safety pin.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Elliot plays a very important rule on this team I didn’t want to draft him in the first place . But for both running backs to have success. They need each other. Elliot definitely helps we’re down the defense. And Pollard definitely takes advantage of it. Anybody who doesn’t see that it works together doesn’t want to

Pollard doenst need Zeke. For what? Plenty of backs can provide rest for Pollard. 30 backs could do what Zeke does for Pollard on our team. Only reason we need zeke is because he is about the only other back on this team. But Pollard needing Zeke in particular is garbage. What Zeke provides is complimentary and plenty of backs can provide that.

 

[Whirlwin]

Pollard doenst need Zeke. For what? Plenty of backs can provide rest for Pollard. 30 backs could do what Zeke does for Pollard on our team. Only reason we need zeke is because he is about the only other back on this team. But Pollard needing Zeke in particular is garbage. What Zeke provides is complimentary and plenty of backs can provide that.

I know how much you hate Elliot. Put that aside. And you know it’s true

 

[CowboyRoy]

I know how much you hate Elliot. Put that aside. And you know it’s true

I can easily put aside the hate. Zeke is still an overpaid, over the hill, slow and plodding back that averages 4 ypc when perfectly healthy.

And Pollard is still the much better back. One of the most talented in the NFL actually.

 

[cnuball21]

Freezing cold, 20+ carries and 120+ all purpose yards.

Taking a pulse check here.