Possible QC news

[dbair1967]

Sorry David, but I for one will continue to feel sorrow for the Quincy Carters of this world.

With no apologies.

thats fine, everyone is entitled to do what they want...I prefer to spend my time worrying about more useful things though...

people in the sports and entertainment business are living a dream...if they screw it up because they cant stay away from drugs or other crimes then they dont deserve a shred of sorrow from anyone...

David

 

[dbair1967]

I agree whole-heartedly. It's good to see that not everyone here is like Dbair.
I wish the best for every former Cowboy player. I think Antonio is very immature, but has some real talent and could be a very good player in time. I understand the reticence concerning QC, but he is a good person and a talented young QB who just needs a situation in which he has the full support
of his management instead of the luke-warm support he got here. I actually think it's a positive that he was in drug rehab because it shows that he is trying to overcome his problem instead of denying that it exists. I also believe that Carthon knows that Carter can actually play in this league and knows how to use him. Plus Crennel has reviewed last years Cleveland vs Jets game and knows that Carter beat his team despite a fine defensive performance and Crennel has game planned for Carter in the 2003 Dallas vs Pats game and knows that QC put up respectable numbers against their super bowl caliber defense with inexperienced receivers and THAM.

hey look, Quincy's mom is back...lets look at your ridiculous post a little at a time:

>>>and a talented young QB who just needs a situation in which he has the full support of his management<<<

he already had that and he blew it...he was the owners hand picked starter at QB...as for the talent thing, he hasnt displayed very much of that so far...

>>> actually think it's a positive that he was in drug rehab because it shows that he is trying to overcome his problem instead of denying that it exists<<<

hey great, he knows a problem exists!!

>>>I also believe that Carthon knows that Carter can actually play in this league and knows how to use him. Plus Crennel has reviewed last years Cleveland vs Jets game and knows that Carter beat his team despite a fine defensive performance and Crennel has game planned for Carter in the 2003 Dallas vs Pats game and knows that QC put up respectable numbers against their super bowl caliber defense with inexperienced receivers and THAM<<<

***? QC managed to generate just 10 pts and 116 passing yards against one of the worst defenses in the league (Cleveland)...against NE the previous yr Carter worked his magic to the tune of ZERO pts and 3 picks and a 38.0 game QB rating...

word of advice man, lay down the crack pipe while you still may have a few brain cells

David

 

[Alexander]

I agree whole-heartedly. It's good to see that not everyone here is like Dbair.

Just because he could care less about the activities of a player once they move on, particularly if their actions disrupted the entire team and forced us into going into a season with the likes of Vinny Testeverde at QB?

Quincy Carter cost us victories in 2004 because he was not here. But that is just smashing, I wish him the best?

That is rooting for a player over the franchise and I do not understand that.

but he is a good person and a talented young QB who just needs a situation in which he has the full support

You know him personally? If not, then you are assuming.

of his management instead of the luke-warm support he got here.

Devoting three seasons waiting for him to get it together is luke warm? Coach Parcells gave him every chance in the world. Quincy had it all and he chose drugs over his team. Mister Jones and Coach Parcells had a great deal of emotional capital tied up on him and he disappointed them.

Crennel has game planned for Carter in the 2003 Dallas vs Pats game and knows that QC put up respectable numbers against their super bowl caliber defense with inexperienced receivers and THAM.

20 out of 36 for 210 yards, no touchdowns and 3 interceptions? That is "respectable"?

I start caring for players when they respect the organization and give back as much as they take.

All-time greats like Bob Lilly, Roger Staubach, Emmitt Smith and Troy Aikman are worthy of my admiration. Players who took but did not give anything back are not even worth my time.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

So, do you hold the same amount of empathy for others who inherent flaw caused their downfall, like say Dwayne Goodrich?

Is Dwayne Goodrich an addict?

I don't much know about him, but I think not. From what I have read, he is an irresponsible partier.

His situation is FAR different from Carter's. A specious argument.

Certainly once a person victimizes others, and to the ultimate degree as Goodrich did, he should pay the price we as a society deems fitting.

I am for personal accountabillity, in all matters.

It's irrelevant but I neither drink nor do any drug harder than aspririn, and never have. Have never been intoxicated in my life..not out of any special self-discipline, (my message board posting gives the lie to that : ) but because I fail to see the attraction in being out of control. I mean really, why?

But I also realize what is so easy for me to abstain from is much less so for folks like Quincy. Just because I can easily abstain, doesn't make me feel superior. Just lucky.

I pity addicts. I also pity the victims they leave in their path. Carter is not Goodrich, and drawing that analogy is silly; but he has had to have left plenty of heartache in his path. All addicts do.

I can not imagine NOT feeling great pity for substance addiction, the tragedy and waste for the individual, the family, and the society.

And am always amazed such a fundamental human emotion meets with such astonishment.

 

[Alexander]

Is Dwayne Goodrich an addict?

I don't much know about him, but I think not. From what I have read, he is an irresponsible partier.

His situation is FAR different from Carter's. A specious argument.

He could be an alcoholic. Unless you have some other information, I fail to see how you can distance the comparison that far. I was not referring to the consequences of their actions, but the difference between one getting pity and the other not, based purely on the fact that poor decisions were made.

I pity addicts. I also pity the victims they leave in their path. Carter is not Goodrich, and drawing that analogy is silly; but he has had to have left plenty of heartache in his path. All addicts do.

I can not imagine NOT feeling great pity for substance addiction, the tragedy and waste for the individual, the family, and the society.

And am always amazed such a fundamental human emotion meets with such astonishment.

So if Goodrich was a raging alcoholic--an addict if you will--would he qualify for your pity?

 

[dbair1967]

Is Dwayne Goodrich an addict?

I don't much know about him, but I think not. From what I have read, he is an irresponsible partier.

His situation is FAR different from Carter's. A specious argument.

Certainly once a person victimizes others, and to the ultimate degree as Goodrich did, he should pay the price we as a society deems fitting.

I am for personal accountabillity, in all matters.

It's irrelevant but I neither drink nor do any drug harder than aspririn, and never have. Have never been intoxicated in my life..not out of any special self-discipline, (my message board posting gives the lie to that : ) but because I fail to see the attraction in being out of control. I mean really, why?

But I also realize what is so easy for me to abstain from is much less so for folks like Quincy. Just because I can easily abstain, doesn't make me feel superior. Just lucky.

I pity addicts. I also pity the victims they leave in their path. Carter is not Goodrich, and drawing that analogy is silly; but he has had to have left plenty of heartache in his path. All addicts do.

I can not imagine NOT feeling great pity for substance addiction, the tragedy and waste for the individual, the family, and the society.

And am always amazed such a fundamental human emotion meets with such astonishment.

the problem with this is if I can stay clean, why cant he? I dont think I am better than him, but if I can do it so can he. Why should anyone feel sorry for someone who is in a position to LEAD BY EXAMPLE...children (right or wrong) idolize sports and entertainment stars...they emulate them...these people rightfully should be held at a higher level of accoutability because their actions can influence so many. If they dont like that arrangement then they should go work at the Wal-Mart, lay bricks or flip burgers like the rest of rank and file America.

QC (and others) ruin themselves, and because they are not subjected to the same punishments as others they continue to receive "another chance...another chance...another chance"...if someone laid down the law to these bumbling idiots and said "no drugs or you are gone forever" maybe they'd think twice about it...but as long as they continue to be treated like royalty that can do no wrong, they will never change...if I pulled the kind of crap Ricky Williams just did would my employer welcome me back with open arms? Hell No he wouldnt...how can you feel sorry for that?

David

 

[Chocolate Lab]

It is strange that when you start out as a BMOC star quarterback who does a little coke at a party, it's your fault. When you do it enough that you become addicted, it's then sympathetic.

I'll tell you another reason I don't feel too sorry for QC, and that's because Jerry absolutely bent over backwards to help him, and did so for a couple of years. I've heard that everyone on the team knew QC had reverted back to his old doping ways when he got benched in 2002, and he had friends and an entire organization willing to help him. Compare that to the bum in the street who has no one to turn to, or only friends who are no better off than he is. He can't get much help even if he wants it. I do feel sorry for a person like that.

It's been said before, but it's very curious how some people back the "rebels" like QC and AB. I feel more sympathy for the guy who busts his butt all year, lives a clean life, possibly suffers a serious injury requiring months of painful rehab, and then still doesn't have the talent to make the team.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

He could be an alcoholic. Unless you have some other information, I fail to see how you can distance the comparison that far. I was not referring to the consequences of their actions, but the difference between one getting pity and the other not, based purely on the fact that poor decisions were made.



So if Goodrich was a raging alcoholic--an addict if you will--would he qualify for your pity?

Yep, my pity along with the full extent of the law's penalty.

Those ancient Greeks,too, made sure the punishment fit the crime, while at the same time grieving deeply for the fatal human flaw that led to the tragedy.

Seriously, Alexander, it is possible to both hold non-nonsense, personal accountability views regarding the offender with as much justice for the victim and victims' families as can be meted.

AND at the same time lament the individual tragedy of substance abuse, try to understand it, and "cure" it.

This is why we as a society try so hard to "rehabilitate" the offender, not just incarcerate.

It's the core of our Christian ethos. The central philosophy of our society.
Mankind is redeemable. And we need only look to the one who died for our sins as the example

Justice and compassion are not dichotomous. In fact, some folks feel they can't exist without the other.

 

[LaTunaNostra]

the problem with this is if I can stay clean, why cant he?

Are you kidding?

Have you read any of the literature or research from the Human Genome Program re alcoholism?

This is way too broad and deep a topic to tackle here..and the answer to the question "why can I just say no and he can't?" has way too many variables to be an "easy" one, but we do know a lot more about the 'nature' of addiction today (genetic component) than we did twenty years ago. And of course the "nurture" aspect remains central as well.

We know that alcohol and drugs (and tobacco!) have different effects on different body chemistries. The gene research even supports the "ethnic" factor, such as the high alcoholism rate among native Americans.

Now of course, you can tell that two pack a day smoker from the age of 15 he is an undisciplined lout because you could go cold turkey and he couldn't, but chances are that chemically enhanced Philip Morris formula just had a much more addictive effect in his bloodstream than in yours. Yeah, the psychological variables play in too, but geez, don't we all know a lot about the nature of addiction just from the tobacco industry related research?

This one's fated for the Off Topic Zone.. but leave it to QUINCY to get another one so quickly on the philosophy and biology tracks...

Mr. Carter. There's OUR addiction, and you antis are as hooked as us pros.

Later

 

[dbair1967]

Are you kidding?

Have you read any of the literature or research from the Human Genome Program re alcoholism?


Later

I didnt do it at all, thats why I never got hooked...I knew drugs were illegal and WRONG and avoided them...why couldnt he? are you going to try and tell me he didnt know that it was wrong?

all the psycho babble in the world isnt going to convince me to feel sorry for someone who does something he/she KNOWS is wrong, then suffers consequences because of it


David

 

[Alexander]

Yep, my pity along with the full extent of the law's penalty.

Those ancient Greeks,too, made sure the punishment fit the crime, while at the same time grieving deeply for the fatal human flaw that led to the tragedy.

Seriously, Alexander, it is possible to both hold non-nonsense, personal accountability views regarding the offender with as much justice for the victim and victims' families as can be meted.

AND at the same time lament the individual tragedy of substance abuse, try to understand it, and "cure" it.

This is why we as a society try so hard to "rehabilitate" the offender, not just incarcerate.

It's the core of our Christian ethos. The central philosophy of our society.
Mankind is redeemable. And we need only look to the one who died for our sins as the example

Justice and compassion are not dichotomous. In fact, some folks feel they can't exist without the other.

Fair enough.

I hate to compare the two, but if you boil down your argument in terms of what is worthy of pity in a purely Christian sense, then Goodrich deserves the same amount of support as Quincy Carter does.

You just don't see the comments wishing him well, now do you? There has been comtempt throw his way because of the consequences of his actions.

Emotional cost is on two levels here. Societal and our own little sad sports world. I do not merge the two. Once they are out of the sports realm, it becomes a question of empathy on another level. I don't wish harm on Carter and I hope on a "human" level, he squared himself away.

I just don't care what he does elsewhere and do not invest emotional time and energy.

Those that do have clearly chosen the player/person over the franchise.

 

[sacase]

the problem with this is if I can stay clean, why cant he? I dont think I am better than him, but if I can do it so can he. Why should anyone feel sorry for someone who is in a position to LEAD BY EXAMPLE...children (right or wrong) idolize sports and entertainment stars...they emulate them...these people rightfully should be held at a higher level of accoutability because their actions can influence so many. If they dont like that arrangement then they should go work at the Wal-Mart, lay bricks or flip burgers like the rest of rank and file America.

QC (and others) ruin themselves, and because they are not subjected to the same punishments as others they continue to receive "another chance...another chance...another chance"...if someone laid down the law to these bumbling idiots and said "no drugs or you are gone forever" maybe they'd think twice about it...but as long as they continue to be treated like royalty that can do no wrong, they will never change...if I pulled the kind of crap Ricky Williams just did would my employer welcome me back with open arms? Hell No he wouldnt...how can you feel sorry for that?

David

The answer to your question is rather simple. Heredity Vs. Enviroment. Perhaps I should say Heredity and Enviroment. We are all different, that is one of the best things that make us who we are. If he is Bi Polar then there is nothing that could have prevented that. If he was exposed to drugs at a young age or wasn't taught the dangers, etc then that could be where his addiction started. We were all raised in different enviroments, it helps shape us to be who we are.

We are the ones who have decided to hold professional athletes to this special catargory of people. We are the ones who idolize then. They don't ask for it, many times they don't want it. Ask yourself, why do we idolize athletes? Because they can throw a ball far? Because the can kick a ball hard? Because they make alot of money? Why should an athlete go to work at Wal-mart because you have a problem with how he carries himself or what his moral values are compared to yours, perhaps you might want to teach your child to idolize you instead of them. The only people who have the responsibility to lead by example are 1) parents and 2) people who are in real leadership positions (IE government officials, military officers and NCO's, heads of corporations, etc).

Fact is we want to see professional football, and if the person playing has some character issues, but is still the best man for the job, guess what he is going to play. Maybe if you had a special skill that was hard to replace, your employer would be willing to tolerate some things from you. If you have a scientist who is regularly developing new products for your company and making 100's of millions of dollars for you with these products, chances are you will look the other way if he chooses to snort a little blow and have a couple hookers over to the office. Almost anyone can flip a burger, how many people can carry the ball for 1400+ yards in the NFL with 250lb+ men kncoking them al over the place? Supply Vs Demand.

One thing I found interesting is you made the comment of "I can do it, so can he?" Well if that is the case why are you not the QB for the Cowboys? Perhaps you don't have the talent or the physical prowess to accomplish that goal, just like QC may not have some of the mental strength that you have. Food for thought.

 

[jterrell]

QC is clearly bipolar if he doesn't recognize he needs to stay out of mental and drug rehabs to spend whatever time he has left with his mother near her side.

I like the guy as a person but he needs to Leon it for a bit before worrying aobut football. Unless he gets his head right, football wont matter anyways. His on-field play warrants a job somewhere but his off-field issues warrant a stiff arm.

 

[Alexander]

This is great.

Societal issues, theology and the nature/nurture question all in one thread.

Why?

Because a former QB that still has a fan following on a team he has been gone for an entire season.

 

[dbair1967]

One thing I found interesting is you made the comment of "I can do it, so can he?" Well if that is the case why are you not the QB for the Cowboys? Perhaps you don't have the talent or the physical prowess to accomplish that goal, just like QC may not have some of the mental strength that you have. Food for thought.

what does not having talent to play QB in the NFL have to do with being able to figure out the difference between right and wrong and act accordingly?

being able to differentiate between right and wrong, whats a criminal act and whats not is NOT "mental strength"

David

 

[Alexander]

It's been said before, but it's very curious how some people back the "rebels" like QC and AB. I feel more sympathy for the guy who busts his butt all year, lives a clean life, possibly suffers a serious injury requiring months of painful rehab, and then still doesn't have the talent to make the team.

Precisely.

Especially rebels who supposedly say "'Me and you need to show how big of a mistake the cowboys made''.

That sounds like the words of a mature character who really deserves my support and well wishes.

 

[dbair1967]

This is great.

Societal issues, theology and the nature/nurture question all in one thread.

Why?

Because a former QB that still has a fan following on a team he has been gone for an entire season.

pretty pathetic isnt it?

David

 

[Alexander]

pretty pathetic isnt it?

David

Pathetic and completely baffling.

 

[lspain1]

no offense, but this kind of stuff is just ridiculous...how the hell can anyone in their right mind feel sorry for a guy who's a player (and the starting QB) for the highest profile franchise in sports...makes 100's of thousands of dollars (and potentially millions) to play a kids game once a week for 3 or 4 months while the rest of the real world is out there knocking themselves out for 60k or so (or whatever)...nobody should feel sorry for this clown or anyone like him thats done similar things...it's just plain stupid, and he did it to HIMSELF...this "poor Quincy, the world caved in on him" crap is pathetic

David

Ouch David, pretty tough words! :whip:

I haven't expressed any sympathy for QC but I feel that here is a guy who had one of the best positions in pro sports and threw it away. Maybe I'm biased but being the QB (with arguable talent) for the Dallas Cowboys is right up there in the dream category. Then you see the guy making multiple mistakes to go into a tailspin that loses it all. If I see a drunk on the side of the road, I probably won't give him a handout but I will wish him the best and hope he finds the ability to get his life back on track.

I think most of the QC well wishers put him in that category. No one is givin' him handouts but most hope he finds a way to make use of the talent he has.

 

[dbair1967]

Pathetic and completely baffling.

totally agree with the baffling part...the guy was a mediocre talent who most games played like crap more than even being average...did drugs despite apparant team warnings not to and got cut...why would people get behind a player like that?

I'm in sales, would love to speak to that crowd about the ocean-front property in Arizona

David