Prisco: Top 10 Pass Rushers of all-time (Ware #8)

[Zimmy Lives]

I do think that Harvey Martin should be on the list. He is very close to the top of that list with regards to sacks and he still holds the unofficial Cowboys mark.

Harvey had one of the best outside rushes ever but I think Randy White destroying the pocket and Too Tall coming of the other side had something to do with that.

 

[Muhast]

For some context, here's some data from Pro Football Focus from some of the elite non-Ware rushers in the NFL:

• Cameron Wake: 86 Pressures in 531 Pass Rushes
• Aldon Smith: 85 Pressures in 607 Pass Rushes
• Clay Matthews: 56 Pressures in 411 Pass Rushes
• Jason Pierre-Paul: 55 Pressures in 504 Pass Rushes
• Von Miller: 92 Pressures in 460 Pass Rushes

That's a total of 374 pressures in 2,513 Pass Rushes, or just 14.88% of the time that they rush the passer.


You're probably correct in that there are a lot of times in the 4th quarter that Ware not only fails to record a sack, but doesn't record a pressure. It's just incorrect for us to assume that he isn't rushing at an elite level regardless of that.

Okay maybe it's not obvious. Maybe that's a bad choice of words. There is, however, evidence that both players rushed the passer more and less efficiently in each of the years mentioned though.

Pass Rushing Snaps 2012:
Allen: 638
Peppers: 487
Ware: 420

Pass Rushing Snaps 2011:
Allen: 567
Peppers: 537
Ware: 451


Pass Rushing Snaps 2010:
Peppers: 525
Allen: 524
Ware: 470

Totals over the years:
Allen: 1,729
Peppers: 1,549
Ware: 1,341



Awesome.




But unless you or Erod cares to go back and document all of Ware's snaps and pressures over the last 3 years and compare and contrast them with those of Allen, Peppers, and Matthews over the last 3 years, it's all we have to go on from an unbiased perspective.

Props to Future,Nation,Ntegrase for bringing numbers throughout the thread. They don't paint the picture 100% but they are eye opening and help us get a better idea.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Harvey had one of the best outside rushes ever but I think Randy White destroying the pocket and Too Tall coming of the other side had something to do with that.

Pick a guy on that list and tell me which one did it all by himself. I really only see one, for the most part.

 

[Sarge]

One thing to keep in mind in all of this is the fact that they pass a LOT more these days, so the opportunities for sacks are far greater than back in the day.

 

[NeonNinja]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware is a very nice player. To me, he's Greg Ellis.

And you tell people to learn football?

 

[Zimmy Lives]

Pick a guy on that list and tell me which one did it all by himself. I really only see one, for the most part.

No point.

Harvey was a very good outside pass rusher. Does he belong in the all-time top ten? Obviously debatable.

 

[SportsGuru80]

Way too high. Oh my gawd.

I like me some Demarcus Ware, but wow is he overrated at times.

You cannot be serious... OMG!

 

[SportsGuru80]

One thing to keep in mind in all of this is the fact that they pass a LOT more these days, so the opportunities for sacks are far greater than back in the day.

To counter that point I will say left tackles are much better athletes these days as well, and the right tackles aren't bad either....

 

[adbutcher]

Speechless...

the more things change, the more they stay the same

 

[WoodysGirl]

the more things change, the more they stay the same

What in the heezy?!!!!!

Duuddee!! I was just thinking about you the other day, cuz I was driving in your neck of the woods.

PMing you now!

 

[The Realist]

Does anyone agree with me that Greg Ellis is a first ballot hall of famer?

 

[Muhast]

Does anyone agree with me that Greg Ellis is a first ballot hall of famer?

No. He isn't an anyballot hofer. Good player but not even close.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

No. He isn't an anyballot hofer. Good player but not even close.

Im still not sure if he was being sarcastic or not with that question.

 

[Clove]

Yeah it seemed low to me too, but then again he didn't rush the passer on 62 passing snaps last year. Combine that with the fact he was on the field for less than 900 snaps and a little less than half of those were running plays, it makes sense in the end.

I don't think it's a myth. I think it's just hard to have big moments when your team squanders them or if you don't have much help around you.

So we look at player X on X team on Sunday Night Football, or in the playoffs who has loads of help and makes one or two plays that, when isolated, have no more impact on the game than things that Ware does, but are magnified by the situation (especially if the team ends up winning and the announcers reflect back on it with hyperbole).

That's not to say there aren't better pass rushers than Ware. Again, Von Miller is doing things that Ware used to do and could eventually unseat him. But there aren't any in this era that have the combination of efficiency and gross numbers and therefore impact and longevity as DeMarcus Ware.

The debate should be closed now. You've owned sir.

 

[joseephuss]

Ware is overrated at times. It usually occurs just before the season starts and someone posts that Ware will have 30 to 35 sacks during the season. He then becomes underrated by the same people when he fails to meet those lofty numbers and they say he sucks because of it.

 

[The Realist]

Im still not sure if he was being sarcastic or not with that question.

Total sarcasm. Referring to the poster who compared Ellis to Ware.

Ware is a sure thing first ballot hall of famer.

Ellis made how many pro bowls and had how many double digit sack seasons.

Ellis looked good compared to string of busts at DE Jerry drafted (Pittman/Carver).

Ware is one of all time greats.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware had 2.5 sacks against the Eagles. At that rate King Dunlap would have allowed 20 sacks to Ware over the course of the season; more than Doug Free, Mackenzie Bernadeux, and Ryan Cook combined.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

I don't think it's a myth. I think it's just hard to have big moments when your team squanders them or if you don't have much help around you.

Any of Ware's five (FIVE!!!) forced fumbles last year could have been a "big moment" if only the offense wasn't so pathetic giving up 3-and-outs.

It's pretty hard to blame Ware because he forces five freaking fumbles and no one can score off of them.

 

[Blue Eyed Devil]

and let's not forget that Ware gets all these sacks and fumbles while winning the award every year for "player who gets held the most without ever getting a flag"

http://i846.***BLOCKED***/albums/ab23/SirHypnotoad/Cowboys/2011/Week%2002%20vs%20Redskins/GIF/Q4f.gif

 

[The Realist]

Ware had 2.5 sacks against the Eagles. At that rate King Dunlap would have allowed 20 sacks to Ware over the course of the season; more than Doug Free, Mackenzie Bernadeux, and Ryan Cook combined.

Wow....interesting definition of owned.

Looks like erod had it backwards.

Not suprising.