Prisco: Top 10 Pass Rushers of all-time (Ware #8)

[dwmyers]

One player from the 1950s. One player from the 1960s. No player I can tell from the 1970s. Bunches of players from the 1980s, 90s, and 2000s.

Statistically a messed up list. Seems to suffer from "I never saw him, so he doesn't count" syndrome.

No mention of Bob Lilly. No mention of Harvey Martin.

D-

 

[Nova]

One player from the 1950s. One player from the 1960s. No player I can tell from the 1970s. Bunches of players from the 1980s, 90s, and 2000s.

Statistically a messed up list. Seems to suffer from "I never saw him, so he doesn't count" syndrome.

No mention of Bob Lilly. No mention of Harvey Martin.

D-

I'd honestly rather it be that way than someone pretending to know what they're talking about. Get a lot of that on other forums.

 

[cowboyfan4life2]

I think ware belongs in the top ten. I never saw deacon jones play, but it sounds like he should number one.

 

[Zekeats]

Reggie white at 4 is a joke.....he should be 1, 2 at worst

 

[Plankton]

You may disagree if you wish but the reason he fell off was not because of blocking. The reason he fell off was because of drugs.

He was a Pro Bowler in 78 and 79.

You're assuming that he was clean in 1977, when he had 23 sacks.

He never came close to that level again - largely due to the rules for blocking changing.

 

[perrykemp]

Reggie white at 4 is a joke.....he should be 1, 2 at worst

I thought the same thing when I saw Bruce Smith ahead of Reggie White.

Prisco made the distinction that the list was of the best pass rushers... not necessarily the best "players"....

Reggie White was a superior <player> that Bruce Smith by far... but Bruce Smith was an amazing pass rusher - especially considering that he played in a 3-4 much of his career.

 

[jobberone]

I do think that Harvey Martin should be on the list. He is very close to the top of that list with regards to sacks and he still holds the unofficial Cowboys mark.

You beat me to it. Not sure who I'd bump but he belongs in the top ten IMO. Which is another reason to put the guy in the HOF.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

You're assuming that he was clean in 1977, when he had 23 sacks.

He never came close to that level again - largely due to the rules for blocking changing.

No, as a matter of fact I'm not. I'm assuming that his addiction, his ever increasing personal problems, along with changes along the DL, such as injuries to White and the loss of Larry Cole, the fact that Ed Jones left Football to try boxing and the overall decline of the Dallas Defense was more a factor. I mean, he lead the team in sacks every year. It's not realistic, IMO, to believe that he could continue a pace like the one he set in 1977. To duplicate 23 sacks would be almost impossible.

 

[Red Dragon]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware is a very nice player. To me, he's Greg Ellis.

I'd rather have a "nice" football player who gets double-digit sacks in a season than a mean football player with a fiery temper who gets no sacks at all.


Production and performance is what matters, not personality. There are plenty of people with fiery personality in the world who are unsuccessful failures.

 

[Sarge]

I do think that Harvey Martin should be on the list. He is very close to the top of that list with regards to sacks and he still holds the unofficial Cowboys mark.

Harvey Martin should be on the list and Reggie White is the greatest pass rusher of all time.

 

[NorthTexan95]

I think Richard Dent is too hight but it's still a good list.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I do think that Harvey Martin should be on the list. He is very close to the top of that list with regards to sacks and he still holds the unofficial Cowboys mark.

This!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Harvey Martin was an animal when he put that hand on the ground.

He gets no respect, but you can dang well point to him just like Deacon Jones.

He had 85 tackles and 23 unofficial sacks in 1977 because they didn't record sacks then.

But here is the bonus.

He did that in 14 games!

The Beautiful Harvey Martin - the title of his local radio show - was just that.

He was Chuck Norris before Chuck Norris was bad.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware is a very nice player. To me, he's Greg Ellis.

lol.

And just like that any credibility you might have had was completely lost.


Greg Ellis? The guy of like one double digit sack season in his entire career? You're comparing him to a guy who does that EVERY year?

Wow.

There is stupid and then there is this. They don't even have a word yet for what an observation like this would be called.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Hard to put one name on that, but for comparison, take him and Harrsion in 2008, the year Harrison won DPOY.

Ware had 20 sacks.

15 of the 20 came in games separated by at least 8 points. Only 5 came in one score games.

Harrison had 16 sacks.

But 6.5 of them came in games decided by 1 score. And he had an INT and safety in those games.

Harrison did play in 2 more 1 score games than Ware (8 vs. 6)

I know there are a million factors that count into the score and blah blah blah...but based on that, you could say that Harrison is, in fact, more clutch than Ware.

Just to add on a bit, in 09, in 8 games decided by 1 score, Ware only had 5 of his 11 sacks. In 2010, in 11 games, he had 12.5. 2011, 9 sacks in 9 games, but had 8.5 in just 5 decided by 2 scores.

While this doesn't necessarily show that he plays worse in tight games, it doesn't show that he elevates his game. He plays at a high level all the time. To be clutch, you have to perform better in the toughest games. I don't think he does that.

If you want to critize or display an opinion about a particular player this is the way to do it. Great job.

 

[TwoDeep3]

I have used a baseball analogy before about a hitter.

If the guy hits .300, but most of his hits are not in critical times, and he has only 30 something RBIs, the guy hitting 250 with 50 RBI has more value.

I don't go much for stats, but I think Ware sometimes gets sacks when they are not as critical.

I am hoping the new coaching staff works him relentlessly on the inside move, which I believe will improve his sack totals and perhaps in critical times.

 

[BourbonBalz]

I do think that Harvey Martin should be on the list. He is very close to the top of that list with regards to sacks and he still holds the unofficial Cowboys mark.

Beat me to it. Harvey was a fantastic pass rusher. One of the best.

 

[blindzebra]

If you want to critize or display an opinion about a particular player this is the way to do it. Great job.

Sorry but jumping to a conclusion based on an outcome with no correlating facts is far from a great job...it is useless.

 

[RastaRocket]

Ware gets stats, but he is not a dominant pass rusher. Teams don't fear him. King Dunlap owned him last season (and he owned no one else because he sucks).

Ware is a very nice player. To me, he's Greg Ellis.

What? Is that why they double team him?

 

[Idgit]

What? Is that why they double team him?

Yeah, but both the guys they put on him were completely fearless. I mean, it didn't stop Ware from often beating them both, but they weren't scared of anything while they were getting beat.

 

[The Realist]

Just missed the list:

#11 Greg Ellis

He and Ware are basically the same player.

Hilarious.........

Sacks in red zone, on 3rd down, and in 4th quarter only matter if you play for team other than the Cowboys.

Most dominant pass rusher in the league since being drafted?

Immaterial...........