QB of the future

DFWJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,981
Reaction score
48,728
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Clear future as a franchise? none

I think the so called GB approach allows for one big factor and that is having a QB trained and ready understanding the offense completely before being thrown to the wolves. I think for most rookie QB it is hard, the game is faster and you are learning on the move including the offensive system. I would rather have a QB sit and be fully prepared when he his opportunity comes. There are a small handful who are NFL ready or close to it when they enter the league but I think a lot of QB get ruined because they get overwhelmed by this league and have a total loss of confidence because they were forced into action before they were ready. I comment the Brown HC for not throwing Johnny Football out there right away

Everyone wants to have a backup QB trained and ready. That's not unique to GB.

My point was that the Aaron Rodgers scenario was a fluke.
He was projected by some to go #1 overall and he fell all the way to GB--who had no intention a taking a QB in the first round but did in that case because he was by far the BPA on their board. It wasn't a plan to use a 1st rounder. There for awhile, they were burning 2-4th rounders though.
To make it more of a fluke is he eventually turned out to be a HOF level QB.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Thing is I think it can work now because there is a cap on rookies, thankfully the league halted the JaMarcus Russell type deals where you had rookie QB making big money, it was ridicules seeing a rookie being paid like a vet and yet proved nothing to get it. Today the rookie contract I think allow you the time for 1 to 2 years of sitting and learning

That's true. The financial damage is not what it used to be so I hope we do see more of that in the future but honestly, I haven't seen it yet. If you look back at the last two drafts of QBs who were taken in the first two rounds:

Manual
Smith
Bortles
Manziel
Bridgewater
Carr

All have already been named starters in their first seasons. It's hard to know what their ultimate futures might turn out to be but at least three of them are not looking real good.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,173
Reaction score
39,426
He should have been frustrated. He was a rookie coming in to start and the Chargers never even bothered to sign a guy who could come in and be the starter till he figured it out. I mean, San Diego did him no favors at all. I'm not saying he was a guy who was ready to come in and start the NFL on fire. I mean, that's kind of the message here yeah? He had all kinds of talent but he was completely mishandled by the Chargers but you knew that he was immature when he came out. That's why Manning went first because there was no question that Leaf was more talented. I mean, if you are saying that Leaf was a jerk and that he rubbed teammates the wrong way, that's true, he was. However, he is not the first jerk QB in the league and he won't be the last. I look at Rogers and I see the same exact QB. Talented, immature and a jerk but the Pack handled him correctly and now he is the best QB in the League. I don't think we disagree about that but part of your job, as an organization, is to make talented players great. Professional Sports is full of Jerks but you still have to develop them and bring them along if you want to win. The Chargers screwed Leaf up there IMO.

The Chargers didn't do him any favors but he could have handled things a lot better. When a team doesn't have a QB and you're the #1 overall pick making millions on a rookie contract you better be ready to start. Peyton Manning wasn't done any favors by Indy either he was thrown to the wolves and had a rough rookie season but he handled it like a true professional. The same with Aikman he was thrown out there and went 0-11 his rookie year but it comes down to maturity and mental toughness and Leaf displayed neither. I don't see Rodgers as the same as Leaf what I saw Leaf pull I've never seen any QB pull except for maybe Jeff George who was another head case. I still remember George standing next to June Jones on the sidelines jawing at him during a game.
 

NickZepp

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,851
Reaction score
2,082
Everyone wants to have a backup QB trained and ready. That's not unique to GB.

My point was that the Aaron Rodgers scenario was a fluke.
He was projected by some to go #1 overall and he fell all the way to GB--who had no intention a taking a QB in the first round but did in that case because he was by far the BPA on their board. It wasn't a plan to use a 1st rounder. There for awhile, they were burning 2-4th rounders though.
To make it more of a fluke is he eventually turned out to be a HOF level QB.

There was an article a couple weeks ago that GB was thinking about drafting Romo the year before.

The Packers only drafted 1 QB from 2000-2004. Craig Nall. They did draft Aaron Brooks, Matt Hassleback and Mark Brunell in the 90s.
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
That's true. The financial damage is not what it used to be so I hope we do see more of that in the future but honestly, I haven't seen it yet. If you look back at the last two drafts of QBs who were taken in the first two rounds:

Manual
Smith
Bortles
Manziel
Bridgewater
Carr

All have already been named starters in their first seasons. It's hard to know what their ultimate futures might turn out to be but at least three of them are not looking real good.

I agree and I think those are mistakes being made by the teams. Cleveland I felt did the right thing they did not put Manziel out there until their season was pretty much done.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
The Chargers didn't do him any favors but he could have handled things a lot better. When a team doesn't have a QB and you're the #1 overall pick making millions on a rookie contract you better be ready to start. Peyton Manning wasn't done any favors by Indy either he was thrown to the wolves and had a rough rookie season but he handled it like a true professional. The same with Aikman he was thrown out there and went 0-11 his rookie year but it comes down to maturity and mental toughness and Leaf displayed neither. I don't see Rodgers as the same as Leaf what I saw Leaf pull I've never seen any QB pull except for maybe Jeff George who was another head case. I still remember George standing next to June Jones on the sidelines jawing at him during a game.

I agree. I mean, he made bad decision but that was who he was coming out. Again, that's why he wasn't taken over Manning. Manning was that guy who got it. All the more reason, to me, why the Chargers should have sat him and started somebody else. He had talent. The Chargers, IMO, should have developed him and allowed him to mature a little bit before throwing him in there.
 

DFWJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,981
Reaction score
48,728
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
There was an article a couple weeks ago that GB was thinking about drafting Romo the year before.

The Packers only drafted 1 QB from 2000-2004. Craig Nall. They did draft Aaron Brooks, Matt Hassleback and Mark Brunell in the 90s.

Thanks.
More proof that the "Green Bay strategy" was not really anything that generally involved spending a 1st rounder on QB who would sit for a few years.
it's just not something teams do or should do unless a very fluke situation happens.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Thanks.
More proof that the "Green Bay strategy" was not really anything that generally involved spending a 1st rounder on QB who would sit for a few years.
it's just not something teams do or should do unless a very fluke situation happens.

I don't get this. Why would you come to that conclusion with how GB did things?
 

Cowboyz88

Well-Known Member
Messages
11,117
Reaction score
10,015
Again, finding a franchise QB is an extreme longshot as it is, so you have to be proactive. You have to be.

I highly doubt we'll find another Tony Romo — undrafted QB who goes on to set records (talk about long odds). In fact, I predict we never will again (UDFA franchise QB), but I can guarantee that sitting around doing nothing at all will ensure that we never will find a QB.

Simply stated, you can't win the lottery, if you don't buy a ticket.

To that point, draft and sign as many young QBs as you can over the years until you find one, because it would blow our window wide open, if we could find a young QB to take over this young team once Romo's done.

It also doesn't help that teams like the Broncos, Saints, Bears, Chiefs, etc. will soon be looking for their next guy as well, as the competition will be tough to find one.

IMO, with everyone looking for a QB, there's no way a guy like Petty slips to the third round.
 

DFWJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,981
Reaction score
48,728
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
I don't get this. Why would you come to that conclusion with how GB did things?

Just saying that they only spent a first rounder on a QB that they planned to sit on the bench and learn for awhile one time....and that happened due to a freak situation that they could not pass up.
In other words, they never did it before and have never done it again since then...so by any definition of a strategy....it certainly was not one

If someone wants to say they liked spending 2nd to 4th rounders' (actually, mostly 5th-7th rounders) on potential future starting QB---players that they could groom--then I would agree.
But not 1st rounders
That is all I'm saying. .
 

NickZepp

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,851
Reaction score
2,082
Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers because 22 other teams were stupid enough to pass on him. And if you look at the players drafted above him, pretty sure that they all regret not taking a sure thing at QB. Particularly with the QB some of those franchises have had sense thing. Dallas got lucky because nobody at that time knew that Romo would be a great QB.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
I don't know that I would go along with that. I mean, they did have Brett Favre starting for them for 16 seasons so they kinda didn't really need to draft a QB high for a long time. However, they did trade a 1st round pick (17 overall) for Favre, who was originally taken by Atlanta in the 2nd round of the 91 draft. He, coincidentally, sat his first year in Atlanta.
 

DFWJC

Well-Known Member
Messages
59,981
Reaction score
48,728
CowboysZone LOYAL Fan
Green Bay drafted Aaron Rodgers because 22 other teams were stupid enough to pass on him. And if you look at the players drafted above him, pretty sure that they all regret not taking a sure thing at QB. Particularly with the QB some of those franchises have had sense thing. Dallas got lucky because nobody at that time knew that Romo would be a great QB.

That's right.

Aaron Rodgers is the only QB that green bay has drafted in the 1st round in 30 years.
But as ABQ jus mentioned, they did have Favre for about half of that time.

The point is, they DO NOT generally spend high draft picks on QBs.

They did have streak where they would take a QB almost every year in hopes of grooming the player to either use or trade. Usually this was with very late round picks.
They don't hardly even do that anymore.
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
Just saying that they only spent a first rounder on a QB that they planned to sit on the bench and learn for awhile one time....and that happened due to a freak situation that they could not pass up.
In other words, they never did it before and have never done it again since then...so by any definition of a strategy....it certainly was not one

If someone wants to say they liked spending 2nd to 4th rounders' (actually, mostly 5th-7th rounders) on potential future starting QB---players that they could groom--then I would agree.
But not 1st rounders
That is all I'm saying. .

True but then they also knew that Brett career was getting near the end. True other prospects were later picks like Hasselbeck but would then traded him to the Seahawks swapping 1st rd picks Seattle getting the 17th and GB the 10th overall pick and getting a 3rd rd pick for him. That worked out pretty well for GB
 

NickZepp

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,851
Reaction score
2,082
I might think about drafting the QB from Colorado State if he's still around in about the 3rd or 4th round. Other than that none of the QBs in this draft are really worth it. It's a weak QB class. Winston will be figured out right away in the NFL.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,173
Reaction score
39,426
I agree. I mean, he made bad decision but that was who he was coming out. Again, that's why he wasn't taken over Manning. Manning was that guy who got it. All the more reason, to me, why the Chargers should have sat him and started somebody else. He had talent. The Chargers, IMO, should have developed him and allowed him to mature a little bit before throwing him in there.

Not saying there weren't concerns about Leaf's maturity but I don't recall any concerns about it coming out of college. He wasn't taken over Manning because the Colts felt Peyton was the better QB. Some did have Leaf rated higher than Manning but can't imagine the Chargers would have taken Leaf with the #2 overall pick if they had an inkling he would be the head case he turned out to be. When you have a QB getting into a shouting match with your GM you have a problem on your hands. Leaf had a stellar college career but a lot of these QB's who are put on a pedestal in college can't handle adversity at the NFL level it causes many of them to lose their confidence and it's downhill from there.

Some have never been booed before the NFL can be a real walkup call for young QB's. Only the mentally tough can survive a rookie year like Aikman had. Not only was he taking a beating and losing games but the Cowboys traded Walker during the season leaving him without a running game. A QB like Leaf or Jeff George would have been attacking the management raising all kinds of hell. Take Vince Young for example everything was fine with him after his promising rookie year but he was another QB who couldn't handle things when it started going bad and he started receiving criticism.
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Not saying there weren't concerns about Leaf's maturity but I don't recall any concerns about it coming out of college. He wasn't taken over Manning because the Colts felt Peyton was the better QB. Some did have Leaf rated higher than Manning but can't imagine the Chargers would have taken Leaf with the #2 overall pick if they had an inkling he would be the head case he turned out to be. When you have a QB getting into a shouting match with your GM you have a problem on your hands. Leaf had a stellar college career but a lot of these QB's who are put on a pedestal in college can't handle adversity at the NFL level it causes many of them to lose their confidence and it's downhill from there.

Some have never been booed before the NFL can be a real walkup call for young QB's. Only the mentally tough can survive a rookie year like Aikman had. Not only was he taking a beating and losing games but the Cowboys traded Walker during the season leaving him without a running game. A QB like Leaf or Jeff George would have been attacking the management raising all kinds of hell. Take Vince Young for example everything was fine with him after his promising rookie year but he was another QB who couldn't handle things when it started going bad and he started receiving criticism.

Yeah, there were. He was considered the more naturally talented of the two but there were definite concerns over how he prepared for games and the fact that he partied a little too hard. Manning, on the other hand, was considered the most NFL ready QB to come out since Aikman.

I mean, the Chargers should have known and expected this because that was the book on him. Was he worth the #2 overall? I don't know but it's not uncommon for teams to take QBs higher then what they should be taken. That's just how it works.
 

KJJ

You Have an Axe to Grind
Messages
62,173
Reaction score
39,426
Yeah, there were. He was considered the more naturally talented of the two but there were definite concerns over how he prepared for games and the fact that he partied a little too hard. Manning, on the other hand, was considered the most NFL ready QB to come out since Aikman.

I mean, the Chargers should have known and expected this because that was the book on him. Was he worth the #2 overall? I don't know but it's not uncommon for teams to take QBs higher then what they should be taken. That's just how it works.

Yeah, I do recall reading some concerns that Leaf liked to party. The Chargers may have preferred Manning but when a team is desperate for a QB it's not uncommon for them to pull the trigger on one despite some concerns. The book on Manziel was he likes to party hard but that didn't stop Cleveland from using a #1 on him.
 

Doomsday101

Well-Known Member
Messages
107,762
Reaction score
39,034
Yeah, I do recall reading some concerns that Leaf liked to party. The Chargers may have preferred Manning but when a team is desperate for a QB it's not uncommon for them to pull the trigger on one despite some concerns. The book on Manziel was he likes to party hard but that didn't stop Cleveland from using a #1 on him.

At least Cleveland used the 22nd pick and not the 8th. lol
 

ABQCOWBOY

Regular Joe....
Messages
58,929
Reaction score
27,716
Yeah, I do recall reading some concerns that Leaf liked to party. The Chargers may have preferred Manning but when a team is desperate for a QB it's not uncommon for them to pull the trigger on one despite some concerns. The book on Manziel was he likes to party hard but that didn't stop Cleveland from using a #1 on him.

No it didn't. We will soon see if they have made another mistake with a high 1st round draft choice on a QB. I'm not optimistic. They have been horrible with developing QBs.
 
Top