QB of the future

[KJJ]

Being honest I did not care for Leaf coming out of college and when the debates ran on at that time Leaf or Peyton I had no doubts on Peyton. Russell I was never impressed with his mechanics which to me was a lot like Vince Young and George was not sold on him. I try to watch QB and their mechanics and how they conduct themselves and if I think their game will translate into the NFL. Now I did not expect these QB to be complete waste of time and did not think George was a compete waste just never lived up to the 1st rd pick.

A lot of draft experts and pro scouts had both Leaf and Russell rated very high. Mike Mayock said Russell had the best pro day he had ever seen from a QB. Jeff George wasn't the complete waste that Leaf and Russell were but he didn't come close to living up to the great potential many had of him. To this day a lot of NFL people still think he had the greatest arm of any QB they've ever seen. He had loads of talent but was a head case which goes back to my comment that it takes more than physical ability to be a great QB.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

A lot of draft experts and pro scouts had both Leaf and Russell rated very high. Mike Mayock Russell had the best pro day he had ever seen from a QB. Jeff George wasn't the complete waste that Leaf and Russell were but he didn't come close to living up to the great potential many had of him. To this day a lot of NFL people still think he had the greatest arm of any QB they've ever seen. He had loads of talent but was a head case which goes back to my comment that it takes more than physical ability to be a great QB.

To be fair, the injury is what killed Leaf's chances. Leaf was as gifted a passer as I've ever seen. You have to wonder what might have been for him.

 

[Doomsday101]

How many teams out there have a clear future franchise QB backing up their starter right now?

Most likely the answer is between 0 and 2...at most.

I keep hearing the "Green Bay approach". That was a total lightening in a bottle scenario that no team could ever predict.

Clear future as a franchise? none

I think the so called GB approach allows for one big factor and that is having a QB trained and ready understanding the offense completely before being thrown to the wolves. I think for most rookie QB it is hard, the game is faster and you are learning on the move including the offensive system. I would rather have a QB sit and be fully prepared when he his opportunity comes. There are a small handful who are NFL ready or close to it when they enter the league but I think a lot of QB get ruined because they get overwhelmed by this league and have a total loss of confidence because they were forced into action before they were ready. I comment the Brown HC for not throwing Johnny Football out there right away

 

[btcutter]

To be fair, the injury is what killed Leaf's chances. Leaf was as gifted a passer as I've ever seen. You have to wonder what might have been for him.

I disagree. Leaf was the one that killed his own chance. He was given plenty of chances after San Diego.
He didn't have the brains or heart to go with his million dollar arm.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Problem is, in today's NFL, you have to have a guy playing QB who the fans like and want to stay. That's just not how it works in most cases anymore. The worst teams get the highly rated QBs. That means the fan base and the coaching staff are too willing to put them in because they are tired of losing or are afraid for their jobs. You end up seeing guys who could develop, starting before they are ready. Didn't used to be that way in the old days. If you look at Young, nobody wanted him to start over Montana. In the case of Rogers, nobody wanted him to start over Favre.

 

[Doomsday101]

A lot of draft experts and pro scouts had both Leaf and Russell rated very high. Mike Mayock said Russell had the best pro day he had ever seen from a QB. Jeff George wasn't the complete waste that Leaf and Russell were but he didn't come close to living up to the great potential many had of him. To this day a lot of NFL people still think he had the greatest arm of any QB they've ever seen. He had loads of talent but was a head case which goes back to my comment that it takes more than physical ability to be a great QB.

I'm going by my own views not that of the draftniks. I think some of these guys will go that high because the desperation of teams to get a QB and the importance of the position. Vince Young many said great things about him myself as a big time Horns fan was not afraid to go out on a limb and say he is not ready and needed to stay in school for another year and even at that Young mechanics to me did not look great and same with Russell. Not trying to portray myself as a QB guru but not afraid to give me views on them even if the so called experts sing their praise.
When Luck and RGIII came out and if you want to check you can go back and see my comments, RGIII I felt would get off to the fast start because I knew when all else failed he has the athletic ability to be a runner but I felt long term Luck would be the better QB and the kind of QB I would build my franchise on

 

[Doomsday101]

Problem is, in today's NFL, you have to have a guy playing QB who the fans like and want to stay. That's just not how it works in most cases anymore. The worst teams get the highly rated QBs. That means the fan base and the coaching staff are too willing to put them in because they are tired of losing or are afraid for their jobs. You end up seeing guys who could develop, starting before they are ready. Didn't used to be that way in the old days. If you look at Young, nobody wanted him to start over Montana. In the case of Rogers, nobody wanted him to start over Favre.

I think there has always been this in football, bad teams nothing to lose and willing to throw the QB out there. I think one thing you can lose in doing this is the player himself. Also the fact many QB have come out of college before I think they should have, they have the physical traits but many are not mature enough to handle this business. I have heard many former QB say the same thing that some of these kids are doing themselves no favor by leaving school early, they want the money and are thinking short term not what is the overall best thing for my career.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I disagree. Leaf was the one that killed his own chance. He was given plenty of chances after San Diego.
He didn't have the brains or heart to go with his million dollar arm.

This isn't true. He sustained a shoulder injury just before his second season (torn labrum), that caused him to miss the entire following season. He came back after the injury and then sustained a wrist injury in Week 4 of the 2000 Season. The injury was misdiagnosed and he played through it. He eventually screwed it up so bad that it could not be fixed. He actually sued the team Dr. for misdiagnosing the injury and won. Leaf had some issues with maturity for sure but from the stand point of pure talent, he had more talent then Payton did. Like I said, he had as much pure talent as any QB I've ever seen coming out of College.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I think there has always been this in football, bad teams nothing to lose and willing to throw the QB out there. I think one thing you can lose in doing this is the player himself. Also the fact many QB have come out of college before I think they should have, they have the physical traits but many are not mature enough to handle this business. I have heard many former QB say the same thing that some of these kids are doing themselves no favor by leaving school early, they want the money and are thinking short term not what is the overall best thing for my career.

There has but it's certainly much worse today then it was back in the day. I mean, you used to be able to take a QB high and sit and develop him for a few season. No longer. You take a guy high and the media, the fan base, the organization demand you play them early. The days of sitting and learning are almost unheard of anymore. I hope we do that but I don't know. The only way you can really do that now is to draft a guy now and let him sit behind Tony for a few years.

 

[Doomsday101]

There has but it's certainly much worse to day then it was back in the day. I mean, you used to be able to take a QB high and sit and develop him for a few season. No longer. You take a guy high and the media, the fan base, the organization demand you play them early. The days of sitting and learning are almost unheard of anymore. I hope we do that but I don't know. The only way you can really do that now is to draft a guy now and let him sit behind Tony for a few years.

I agree it is more common today than in the past. I think it has hurt some QB who are so gun shy after the beatings they take. It was a concern I had with Troy when he was thrown to the wolves and beat like a step child that rookie year. Lucky for Dallas Troy was a strong minded player and a guy who even if he took a massive hit would stand straight up in the pocket and release and take the hit and developed into a HOF QB. On the other hand David Carr who was drafted by the Texans I think could have been a very good QB but it seemed to me the beatings took a toll on him

 

[KJJ]

To be fair, the injury is what killed Leaf's chances. Leaf was as gifted a passer as I've ever seen. You have to wonder what might have been for him.

His chances started dying before his injury. He was frustrated by his rookie season and began slowly alienated himself from his teammates. He got into a shouting match with Bobby Beathard who was the GM of the Chargers and with a beat writer. He couldn't handle the lack of success he was having on the field or the media scrutiny. He had to be held back from going after a fan who was heckling him after a practice. You don't see NFL QB's handling things the way he did he was like a ticking time bomb. He did have a shoulder injury to his throwing shoulder and a wrist injury that ended his career but things were falling apart for him before those injuries. He was a head case who spent time in jail for burglary and drugs.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree it is more common today than in the past. I think it has hurt some QB who are so gun shy after the beatings they take. It was a concern I had with Troy when he was thrown to the wolves and beat like a step child that rookie year. Lucky for Dallas Troy was a strong minded player and a guy who even if he took a massive hit would stand straight up in the pocket and release and take the hit and developed into a HOF QB. On the other hand David Carr who was drafted by the Texans I think could have been a very good QB but it seemed to me the beatings took a toll on him

Yep. We got very lucky with Troy. He could not have taken another season like he did in 89. That was flat brutal and I'm convinced that those early years shortened his career. I also agree with you on Carr. He took a beat down in Houston and was never the same. Same kind of thing happened with Tim Couch in Cleveland. He got sacked 166 times over 5 seasons. Do the math and you see that it was horrible how they did him. He only started 59 games in his career. Looks like we may be seeing the same thing with Bradford and Griffin and it's probably too early to tell at this point but Smith and Manziel could be right behind them.

 

[Doomsday101]

Yep. We got very lucky with Troy. He could not have taken another season like he did in 89. That was flat brutal and I'm convinced that those early years shortened his career. I also agree with you on Carr. He took a beat down in Houston and was never the same. Same kind of thing happened with Tim Couch in Cleveland. He got sacked 166 times over 5 seasons. Do the math and you see that it was horrible how they did him. He only started 59 games in his career. Looks like we may be seeing the same thing with Bradford and Griffin and it's probably too early to tell at this point but Smith and Manziel could be right behind them.

Yep and for many fans they mock these guys but it is hard to take beat down as some of them have and then expect it not to effect them. You get to a point where you are watching the rush and not the Receivers down the field. In my view I would rather have my QB knowing and fully understanding the offense before I put him out there, at least then his focus is on playing and nothing else.

 

[KJJ]

One other point on Ryan Leaf he said in an interview he didn't like the NFL game it was clear he was still bitter by how his career ended up. You could tell he didn't have his head screwed on straight by the poor decisions he made after football.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

His chances started dying before his injury. He was frustrated by his rookie season and began slowly alienated himself from his teammates. He got into a shouting match with Bobby Beathard who was the GM of the Chargers and with a beat writer. He couldn't handle the lack of success he was having on the field or the media scrutiny. He had to be held back from going after a fan who was heckling him after a practice. You don't see NFL QB's handling things the way he did he was like a ticking time bomb. He did have a shoulder injury to his throwing shoulder and a wrist injury that ended his career but things were falling apart for him before those injuries. He was a head case who spent time in jail for burglary and drugs.

He should have been frustrated. He was a rookie coming in to start and the Chargers never even bothered to sign a guy who could come in and be the starter till he figured it out. I mean, San Diego did him no favors at all. I'm not saying he was a guy who was ready to come in and start the NFL on fire. I mean, that's kind of the message here yeah? He had all kinds of talent but he was completely mishandled by the Chargers but you knew that he was immature when he came out. That's why Manning went first because there was no question that Leaf was more talented. I mean, if you are saying that Leaf was a jerk and that he rubbed teammates the wrong way, that's true, he was. However, he is not the first jerk QB in the league and he won't be the last. I look at Rogers and I see the same exact QB. Talented, immature and a jerk but the Pack handled him correctly and now he is the best QB in the League. I don't think we disagree about that but part of your job, as an organization, is to make talented players great. Professional Sports is full of Jerks but you still have to develop them and bring them along if you want to win. The Chargers screwed Leaf up there IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

Todd Marinovich was a guy who had all the tools but just did not have the passion for the game, it was more about pleasing his father than it was a love for the game of football.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Yep and for many fans they mock these guys but it is hard to take beat down as some of them have and then expect it not to effect them. You get to a point where you are watching the rush and not the Receivers down the field. In my view I would rather have my QB knowing and fully understanding the offense before I put him out there, at least then his focus is on playing and nothing else.

I agree but we are old and that's not how it works much anymore. It's unfortunate though cause that was the better way IMO.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

One other point on Ryan Leaf he said in an interview he didn't like the NFL game it was clear he was still bitter by how his career ended up. You could tell he didn't have his head screwed on straight by the poor decisions he made after football.

I agree with this. San Diego did screw him but what came after was, IMO, due to the fact that he failed in the NFL. His career was not what he wanted it to be (not entirely his own fault) but he still had enough money to have a very comfortable life after Football. He could have done a lot more with it and he elected to take another road. That's on him.

 

[KJJ]

Yep. We got very lucky with Troy. He could not have taken another season like he did in 89. That was flat brutal and I'm convinced that those early years shortened his career.

Troy took more of a beating in 1990 he was sacked 39 times that season( career high) compared to 19 times in 89. Missing 6 games in 89 due to a finger injury kept him from taking as much punishment as he could have.

 

[Doomsday101]

I agree but we are old and that's not how it works much anymore. It's unfortunate though cause that was the better way IMO.

Thing is I think it can work now because there is a cap on rookies, thankfully the league halted the JaMarcus Russell type deals where you had rookie QB making big money, it was ridicules seeing a rookie being paid like a vet and yet proved nothing to get it. Today the rookie contract I think allow you the time for 1 to 2 years of sitting and learning