Quarterback Article

Status
Not open for further replies.

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
DallasEast said:
Scoring is a statistic.

Why all the negativity towards statistics? If they weren't relevant, they wouldn't be compiled and kept for prosperity. :confused:


Because stats can be manipulated to make a player look good, or bad.
I'm a huge Jordan fan, and they use to use stats to try and make MJ look like crap while they used them to make Magic, Bird and Isiah look good. So I got to the point that as long as you are winning as Jordan did with his cast of characters (yes Pippen finally came around) that stats do not matter, what matters is do you have a W or an L.

We can have the sorriest QB in the league stats wise as long as he is leading this team to victories I could care less about the stats. Winning ugly is just as good as winning pretty
 

blindzebra

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,560
Reaction score
4,451
DallasEast said:
Scoring is a statistic.

Why all the negativity towards statistics? If they weren't relevant, they wouldn't be compiled and kept for prosperity. :confused:

Or used to prove him wrong over and over and over and over again. That's why he hates them.

Stats require logic, opinion does not. CowboynIRAQ only uses opinion.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
61,925
Reaction score
62,993
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
CowboynIRAQ said:
Because stats can be manipulated to make a player look good, or bad.
I'm a huge Jordan fan, and they use to use stats to try and make MJ look like crap while they used them to make Magic, Bird and Isiah look good. So I got to the point that as long as you are winning as Jordan did with his cast of characters (yes Pippen finally came around) that stats do not matter, what matters is do you have a W or an L.

We can have the sorriest QB in the league stats wise as long as he is leading this team to victories I could care less about the stats. Winning ugly is just as good as winning pretty
IMO, it seems that you have a problem with those who might misrepresent statistics... and not the statistics themselves. There is a definable difference, you know.
 

blindzebra

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,560
Reaction score
4,451
CowboynIRAQ said:
YOU find it highly unlikely, but no one else does. YOU, love stats, because that is all you know so you run and tell stats . In you and your comrades case instead of the old saying "Run and tell that " You guys "Run and tell stats". LOL

You know what, I'll be honest with you, I cannot stand a stat person, I'll argue with a stat person all day long, they can tell me a stop sign is red and I'll swear up and down that they are color blind.

Stat people remind me of nerds, nerds are good for one thing. so when you are in a battle you can count them out, they cannot watch your back or help in anyway but to tell you what the percentages are.

Sometimes you cats, get on my nerves, because the only ammo you have in an arugment is stats, that's like carrying a peashooter into battle.

I'm like this what was the final outcome did they win are did they lose, screw the stats, if they win great, if they lose back to the drawing board and still screw the stats.

No the nerds are the ones designing the weapons you use, and collecting the intel that keeps you from getting your *** blown off.
 

blindzebra

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,560
Reaction score
4,451
CowboynIRAQ said:
Because stats can be manipulated to make a player look good, or bad.
I'm a huge Jordan fan, and they use to use stats to try and make MJ look like crap while they used them to make Magic, Bird and Isiah look good. So I got to the point that as long as you are winning as Jordan did with his cast of characters (yes Pippen finally came around) that stats do not matter, what matters is do you have a W or an L.

We can have the sorriest QB in the league stats wise as long as he is leading this team to victories I could care less about the stats. Winning ugly is just as good as winning pretty

If he has crummy stats he is not LEADING his team anywhere, he's along for the ride.

B J Armstrong was the point guard, the QB of a basketball team, did HE lead the Bulls?
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
mickgreen58 said:
CowboyInIraq, my expectations are not as high as your, even though you made some very excellent points.

I think the Offensive Line will continue its role as the "Bane" of the team. I see at least 2 Rookies on the Offensive Line. Rumor has it that Rogers has had a little trouble making the switch, but it is too early to start being a naysayer at this point. Al Johnson went down early in TC last year and though he was a high pick in the draft, will still need some time to work that knee out in real game situations and learn how to play at the Pro Level. He is the Center and therefore will have to be quick on his feet and understand everyone else's assignments. Larry Allen is still a question mark. Will he continue to check himself out of games because he cant handle being beaten by younger guys or will he show some shell of his former self? Nobody can answer that question until the season begins. Andre Gurode seemed confused with his blocking schemes at times and was a penalty magnet. Sometimes holding Tackles to early and leting Linebackers make plays or vice versa. He could possibly be beaten out by the Rookie Stephen Petermann, which would be even more questions on the line.

I think Ellis and Glover will continue to do their part. The big question is how Blade, Carson, Stewart and Wiley will play. Blade had his best game against the Eagles in the first game, but faded during the end of the season. Bill Parcells seems to be very high on Delroy Stewart, even saying "he was a different man" now. Were the underachieving numbers of Wiley a fluke the last 2 years? We will have to see, but he is proven.

Pete Hunter will be entering his 3rd year as a Pro. He has struggled to stay injury free throughout his career and really struggled in the slot when he got his opportunity. Yes, he has the size, but that must translate onto the field for me to jump on his bandwagon. Mike Irvin supposedly said they should look elsewhere after observing him in the Mini-Camps. I missed the TXCN episode, so I cannot validate this claim. However, I do know Mike speaks his mind and I think he would know a good corner if he saw one.

We have a Rookie starting at Running back and little depth after that. We have MANY questions at the Quarterback position and this is the year Quincy Carter must live up to that 2nd Round pick we used in 2001. There are still some questions at Fullback. At times Jamar Martin didnt seem like he knew where and who to block and I really dont know much about Darian Barnes. All of this uneasiness in the Backfield, questions on the Offensive Line, Antonio Bryants lack of production last year and little depth at Wideout all tells me we will probably struggle this year.

Whether we Cowboys fans want to admit it or not, the division has gotten tougher. I think the days of 2 guranteed wins against the Skins every year may be coming to an End, and Philly is still in the driver's seat in the division.

Minnesota is notorious for starting out of the gates fast and slowing down at the end.

Green Bay was a playoff team last year, and should have been in the NFC Championship game if it werent for bad playing calling on Defense on 4th and seemingly a mile.

Detroit is much improved, but I am not sure how good their chemistry will be.

Seatle should be a good team this year and was a playoff team last year. I think the addition of Bobby Taylor improves their Secondary. He and Trufant should make a great team.

Baltimore, well Baltimore is always tough.

I think we will slide. Maybe 7-9. This win prediction decreases if Carter is benched for Vinny Testeverde because I dont think the Line will be able to protect him.

This is my opinion, so I guess I cannot be wrong :).

- Mike G.


Hmm, I don't know Dawg, that's like doom and gloom to me, especially after last season.
You don't think that the pride in the players will make them strive to be even better this season than last?
You have to add at least some of those guys pride, into the equation. Players like Woody, Roy, Newman, Coakley, Dat, Glover, Ellis, Carter, Johnson, Glenn, AB, Whitten, Campbell. Dawg those are guys who have heart and a whole lot of pride. Do you actually think they will settle for 7-9?
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
Cheap Shot Artist said:
MikeD17 and CowboynIraq are separated @ birth


I don't know you, so you get no run here. I've been going back and forth with these guys for a long time now. Even though I act like I don't respect them, they got it.

But you hang around.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
blindzebra said:
If he has crummy stats he is not LEADING his team anywhere, he's along for the ride.

B J Armstrong was the point guard, the QB of a basketball team, did HE lead the Bulls?


LOL, that is exactly what I say about aikman. He was along for the ride. LOL
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
blindzebra said:
No the nerds are the ones designing the weapons you use, and collecting the intel that keeps you from getting your *** blown off.

Nah, they get and compile the intel, but I keep my *** intact. If they did that then we would not have over 800 casualties, now.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
mickgreen58 said:
CII, where are you from in the US? Texas?

- Mike G.

Originally from Temple, but now reside in Austin. I roll to Dallas to visit relatives.
 

blindzebra

Well-Known Member
Messages
12,560
Reaction score
4,451
CowboynIRAQ said:
LOL, that is exactly what I say about aikman. He was along for the ride. LOL

Not even close.

Emmitt was MJ, but Aikman was our Pippen. Irvin was the Worm. ;)
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
blindzebra said:
Not even close.

Emmitt was MJ, but Aikman was our Pippen. Irvin was the Worm. ;)

I'll agree with that. that was a good one :)
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
61,925
Reaction score
62,993
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
CowboynIRAQ said:
LOL, that is exactly what I say about aikman. He was along for the ride. LOL
Basketball plays can be initiated, enacted and finished with varying degrees of point guard interaction. Football plays, on the other hand, begin with the quarterback. Success and failure during a possession could result in a fumble, incomplete pass, inability to avoid a sack, etc.

There is a contrasting difference in gameplay within football and basketball. Downplay or eliminate the importance represented by the quarterback from the sport of football and you're not going to be able to make credible arguments revolving the offensive aspect of the game.

Relatively speaking, I'm new here. Am I right it assuming that a proven Super Bowl quarterback like Aikman is ridiculed on this forum? If so, that's kinda weird.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
DallasEast said:
Basketball plays can be initiated, enacted and finished with varying degrees of point guard interaction. Football plays, on the other hand, begin with the quarterback. Success and failure during a possession could result in a fumble, incomplete pass, inability to avoid a sack, etc.

There is a contrasting difference in gameplay within football and basketball. Downplay or eliminate the importance represented by the quarterback from the sport of football and you're not going to be able to make credible arguments revolving the offensive aspect of the game.

Relatively speaking, I'm new here. Am I right it assuming that a proven Super Bowl quarterback like Aikman is ridiculed on this forum? If so, that's kinda weird.


He's not ridiculed, some here believes as you do, and I am assuming this . that aikman made Irvin, Emmitt and everyone else better and that the team was not strong enough to win those SBs with any other QB.

Myself and some others believe that, without the strong cast of players around aikman he would not be headed to the HOF. I like to argue with the guys about his accuracy, because that is what they start and end their argument with, he was that. that argument gets spun and twisted every which way, most of the time I believe we do it because of boredom and nothing happening, (at least I do ).

To be honest Aikman did a great job at what was asked of him. In my opinion I say he was asked to manage the game and not make costly mistakes, complete the passes when asked to, but mainly just guide the ship, because the engine was 22. He stood tall in the pocket and took a beating to deliver the ball, courageous. Even though we had a few come from behind victories, not many he could not lead us back, from more than 2 tds down, that was not our style of offense. He could not carry the team if asked to lala Elway, Staubach, favre McNabb.
He was steady and cool in the pocket, even though he was going to get his head handed to him he stayed strong.

Nah, he is not ridiculed.
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
61,925
Reaction score
62,993
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
CowboynIRAQ said:
He's not ridiculed, some here believes as you do, and I am assuming this . that aikman made Irvin, Emmitt and everyone else better and that the team was not strong enough to win those SBs with any other QB.

Myself and some others believe that, without the strong cast of players around aikman he would not be headed to the HOF. I like to argue with the guys about his accuracy, because that is what they start and end their argument with, he was that. that argument gets spun and twisted every which way, most of the time I believe we do it because of boredom and nothing happening, (at least I do ).

To be honest Aikman did a great job at what was asked of him. In my opinion I say he was asked to manage the game and not make costly mistakes, complete the passes when asked to, but mainly just guide the ship, because the engine was 22. He stood tall in the pocket and took a beating to deliver the ball, courageous. Even though we had a few come from behind victories, not many he could not lead us back, from more than 2 tds down, that was not our style of offense. He could not carry the team if asked to lala Elway, Staubach, favre McNabb.
He was steady and cool in the pocket, even though he was going to get his head handed to him he stayed strong.

Nah, he is not ridiculed.
I'm not much for the woulda, coulda, shoulda's.

Aikman's career and his success was an integral part of the 90's Cowboys' teams. It cannot be undervalued or overinflated.

He was a 3-time Super Bowl winning quarterback.

There are a number of accolades which could follow that statement, but its not necessary.

Aikman's headed for the Hall of Fame. His successors, on the other hand? Who knows? But is it really necessary to demean Aikman by saying that he should be compared to those who haven't [yet] achieve a similar success during their careers?

I think not.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
DallasEast said:
I'm not much for the woulda, coulda, shoulda's.

Aikman's career and his success was an integral part of the 90's Cowboys' teams. It cannot be undervalued or overinflated.

He was a 3-time Super Bowl winning quarterback.

There are a number of accolades which could follow that statement, but its not necessary.

Aikman's headed for the Hall of Fame. His successors, on the other hand? Who knows? But is it really necessary to demean Aikman by saying that he should be compared to those who haven't [yet] achieve a similar success during their careers?

I think not.



In my opinion it is not demeaning to compare youngsters to Aikman, he was compared to others before
 

DallasEast

Cowboys 24/7/365
Staff member
Messages
61,925
Reaction score
62,993
CowboysZone ULTIMATE Fan
CowboynIRAQ said:
In my opinion it is not demeaning to compare youngsters to Aikman, he was compared to others before
The key word here is "youngsters".

Statistical analysis is one thing. Stats are hard data which can be cross-referenced with any other player's. Comparing a player's career with another player who is just starting theirs is gonna get you nowhere fast, imo.

Aikman did what was necessary to cement himself as a Cowboy--and NFL--legend. There isn't another quarterback currently on the Dallas roster who can come close. Only the future will determine whether they will. Or not.
 

Maikeru-sama

Mick Green 58
Messages
14,548
Reaction score
6
CowboynIRAQ said:
Originally from Temple, but now reside in Austin. I roll to Dallas to visit relatives.


Cool Cool. Born and Raised in Dallas, but live in Irving now.

- Mike G.
 

BHendri5

Well-Known Member
Messages
5,072
Reaction score
1,371
DallasEast said:
The key word here is "youngsters".

Statistical analysis is one thing. Stats are hard data which can be cross-referenced with any other player's. Comparing a player's career with another player who is just starting theirs is gonna get you nowhere fast, imo.

Aikman did what was necessary to cement himself as a Cowboy--and NFL--legend. There isn't another quarterback currently on the Dallas roster who can come close. Only the future will determine whether they will. Or not.


Key words Youngsters and future. Remember aikman was a youngster once, and he went thru his maturation process, he had to learn to read defenses and manage an NFL game , he had to get use to the speed of the NFL game, it took him 3yrs before we knew for sure he had made it thru the tunnel at Quote that Parcells used, we went 11-5, a season that the so called experts said that we overachieved just like they said we did last season. Anyway in Aikman's 4th season before the season started the so called experts predicted that we would not do as well as the season before, and what did we do, in nineteen hundred and ninety two.

DE, this whole scenario that our team is going thru, now it seems like deja vue, it is wierd. Yeah we had one less win than in aikman's 3rd season but we were picked to go 5-11 again in Parcells 1st season.

I can't be the only one that sees this comparison
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top