Quarterback Article

[BHendri5]

CNI, Its stats that are used as the measuring stick for everything from your class rank to accuracy out on the shooting range. Without stats you are left with people's opinions. And if you were to ask me what's more valid, I would have to go with "stats" almost every single time.

Really, on our shooting range? We go by results. We have to requalify all the time on the range, I had to do it again before I got deployed if I had failed I would have been pulled. they did not come to me and say by these stats you should be shooting this or that

 

[Cheap Shot Artist]

CNI, Its stats that are used as the measuring stick for everything from your class rank to accuracy out on the shooting range. Without stats you are left with people's opinions. And if you were to ask me what's more valid, I would have to go with "stats" almost every single time.

Very nice Mike..

CI, you are over there fighting for our country...Using Mike Winicki's anology, lets say you are in a foxhole and are under heavy fire...

You have a guy in a remote location who has one chance to take out an enemy cluster..

Now, to have a guy take this shot, would you rather have a guy who has practiced like hell but just isnt all that good and really struggles in a combat situation to take the shot, or someone who is just naturally better?

With your life on the line....

 

[BHendri5]

Nonsense.

Show us a game where a QB threw for 400 yards and 4 TDs and got blown out.

Show us a game where a QB had 50 yards and 4 INTs and his team blew out the other team.

Stats don't tell the whole story, but it is no coincidence that someone that makes ridiculous comments would go to any extreme to down play stats.

Why? Because stats blow up every one of your arguments.

What???? 400yds huh. LOL just like you. How about 300 or some, and the team still lost.

Ask Favre, Ask Warner to name two of this era

 

[blindzebra]

Really, on our shooting range? We go by results. We have to requalify all the time on the range, I had to do it again before I got deployed if I had failed I would have been pulled. they did not come to me and say by these stats you should be shooting this or that

What results are those?

I believe you get ranked by how many hits, correct?

Those be stats.

CNI argument, "I hit the target all the time, just ask me." Followed by, "What do you mean I have to shoot at the target and get X amount of hits, don't you know stats don't matter?"

 

[blindzebra]

What???? 400yds huh. LOL just like you. How about 300 or some, and the team still lost.

Ask Favre, Ask Warner to name two of this era

You said, "BLOWN OUT."

Now it's just lost, just like you. You set up the guide lines, we blow up your argument and PRESTO, the guide lines change.

Funny how that keeps happening.

 

[Cheap Shot Artist]

You said, "BLOWN OUT."

Now it's just lost, just like you. You set up the guide lines, we blow up your argument and PRESTO, the guide lines change.

Funny how that keeps happening.

Bill Clinton-esque....

 

[LaTunaNostra]

The activity I can salute him for...but because of the extremist that he has brought out due to his name and play....Well I want to kick him in the crotch.

Well kick him twice, BP, because this place is ROCKIN today.

For a 7 PM EST on maybe the most boring week of football in every year, mid July doldrums, there sure are a lot of users on board.

We should be BREAKING RECORDS on July 31, baby!!!

 

[BHendri5]

What results are those?

I believe you get ranked by how many hits, correct?

Those be stats.

CNI argument, "I hit the target all the time, just ask me." Followed by, "What do you mean I have to shoot at the target and get X amount of hits, don't you know stats don't matter?"

They do not rank us, they give us a certain amount of ammo, Yes you have to hit the target a certain amount of time to be qualified, but we do not get ranked, they do not throw around percentages, or keep stats.

No, we do not have people come to us and say, Okay you have been in the military this long you should be shooting with this amount of accuracy, NO they do not do that.

Maybe in the Marines, Maybe the infantry in the Army, but not in the Air Force, especially in a Medical Evacuation Squadron.

 

[BHendri5]

You said, "BLOWN OUT."

Now it's just lost, just like you. You set up the guide lines, we blow up your argument and PRESTO, the guide lines change.

Funny how that keeps happening.

Yes, I did. Blown out it has happened before. Oh, just like me huh. LOL
well MR. 400yds tosser outer, I got it from you and your buddies. LOL

 

[blindzebra]

Yes, I did. Blown out it has happened before. Oh, just like me huh. LOL
well MR. 400yds tosser outer, I got it from you and your buddies. LOL

Nope, you got it from yourself!

 

[junk]

I'll question your intelligence all day everyday, because it is garbage. If you told me you played football I would bust out laughing..

You shouldn't, your posts read like something a third grader would write. And its not garbage, its junk.

Hold your sides because I have played football and I always preferred a QB who get accurately get the ball to his receivers as opposed to one who tossed it wherever. For some reason, this seemed to result in a lot of interceptions.

You can hit the broadside of a barn, Heck my 2yr old can do that. You still did not tell me how many accurate QBs have won the SB. When you guys talk about aikman all the ammo you have is " Well he was accurate" or "he was the most accurate QB in the league" give it a break LOL.

You never asked me this. You asked someone else and I think the question was more along the lines of "There have been 39 SuperBowls played, Do you know HOW many QBs has lead their teams to victory and without being as accurate as aikman."

I think that is supposed to be a question and I interpret it to mean "How many QBs have led their team to victory without being as accurate as Aikman?"

In that season? In that game? Career? Not many have been as accurate as Aikman, that is what makes him one of the greats. Did he have help from others? Of course. It took an exceptionally strong supporting cast to get Elway a Super Bowl too. Marino never got one, in part because he never had that great of a supporting cast. It takes a great team to win a Super Bowl. My point was that Aikman was a BIG part of those Super Bowl wins. He played well. He had a great career and to try to say that Jim Zorn, Steve Grogan and Quincy Carter are better QBs is borderline lunacy.

Accuracy is not a God given talent, whether you think QC is accurate or not, that is your problem. I do not worry about whether he is accurate or not, as long as he can lead the team and we continue to win, games and SBs, he can throw the ball like he is cross eyed, Wins and Losses, Wins and Losses.

Accuracy is a talent you can be born with. Just like any other skill, some are better than others. No matter how much you practice, I bet you couldn't beat Lance Armstrong in a bike race, Wayne Gretzky in a hockey game or Troy Aikman in a throwing contest (although I won't be surprised if you claim you can ) Its also something you can improve, but some are just better than others.

Finally, I know you hate stats since they usually prove you wrong, but I thought I would point out a few others. Your biggest beef against Aikman seems to be that he was just there and his teammates carried him along.

1992 -- Passing Yds - 3597
Rushing Yds - 2121
Total Yds - 5718

Aikman threw for 3445 yards or approximately 60% of the offensive yards.
Emmitt rushed for 1713 yards and received for 335 yards or approximately 29% of the offensive yards.
Irvin received for 1396 yards or approximately 36% of the offensive yards.

He also accounted for 24 touchdowns as opposed to 19 for Emmitt(one was a pass) and 7 for Irvin.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal1992.htm

1993 -- Passing Yds - 3617 Yds
Rushing Yds - 2161 Yds
Total Yds - 5778 Yds

Aikman threw for 3100 yds or approximately 54% of the offensive yards.
Emmitt rushed for 1486 yards and received for 414 yards for 1900 yards or approximately 33% of the offensive yards.
Irvin received for 1330 yards or approximately 23% of the offensive yards.

Aikman accounted for 15 TDs, Emmitt accounted for 10 and Irvin accounted for 7.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal1993.htm

1995 -- Passing Yds - 3741 Yards
Rushing Yds - 2201 Yards
Total Yds - 5942 Yards

Aikman threw for 3304 Yards or approximately 55% of the offensive yards.
Emmitt rushed for 1773 and received for 375 yards for approximately 35% of the offensive yards.
Irvin received for 1603 Yards or approximately 27% of the team's offensive yards.

Aikman accounted for 17 TDs, Emmitt accounted for 25 and Irvin accounted for 10.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal1995.htm

So, although you claim otherwise, the bulk of the offense was run through Troy Aikman. He didn't just hand off to Emmitt all the time. If you compare his total yardage each year with Irvin's, you will notice that Aikman also spread the ball around quite nicely.

I noticed in some earlier posts of this thread you seemed to ease a bit on your position on Aikman. I will readily agree that he is not the best QB of all time. He was, however, very good. Yes, he was a system QB, again, most good ones are. Yes, he took a back seat to some other terrific players in Emmitt and Irvin. Did he struggle without a supporting cast? Sure, so did others. That is one of the biggest excuses I hear for QC, why doesn't it work for Aikman?

Bottom line, he was good and I find it highly unlikely that Dallas would have won three Super Bowls without a QB of his caliber on the field.

 

[junk]

They do not rank us, they give us a certain amount of ammo, Yes you have to hit the target a certain amount of time to be qualified, but we do not get ranked, they do not throw around percentages, or keep stats.

No, we do not have people come to us and say, Okay you have been in the military this long you should be shooting with this amount of accuracy, NO they do not do that.

Maybe in the Marines, Maybe the infantry in the Army, but not in the Air Force, especially in a Medical Evacuation Squadron.

Uh, being able to hit a the target a certain amount of times with a certain amount of ammo means that you have to hit the target a certain percentage of the time. Or, in other words, accuracy.

 

[Cheap Shot Artist]

Uh, being able to hit a the target a certain amount of times with a certain amount of ammo means that you have to hit the target a certain percentage of the time. Or, in other words, accuracy.

MikeD17 and CowboynIraq are separated @ birth

 

[BHendri5]

Uh, being able to hit a the target a certain amount of times with a certain amount of ammo means that you have to hit the target a certain percentage of the time. Or, in other words, accuracy.

Stay out of this Junk, I'm picking at BZ right now. You helped me stay awake last night.

 

[junk]

Stay out of this Junk, I'm picking at BZ right now. You helped me stay awake last night.

Sorry. I didn't mean to make a valid point and distract you.

 

[DallasEast]

What???? 400yds huh. LOL just like you. How about 300 or some, and the team still lost.

Ask Favre, Ask Warner to name two of this era

Only the top 24 total yardage passers who started 10 or more games during 2003 were included. If anyone wants more quarterbacks included in the data, go for it.

[i]                                   Team   Opp       Margin of
QB          GAMEDATE    YDS   W/L  Points Points    Victory/Defeat[/i]

Ramsey            9/14   356  W       33     31                2
                  9/21   348  L       21     24               -3

McNair           10/12   421  W       38     17               21
                  10/5   360  L       30     38               -8

Mcnabb           11/16   314  W       28     10               18
                  11/2   312  W       23     16                7

Manning           9/28   314  W       55     21               34
                 11/16   401  W       38     31                7
                  10/6   386  W       38     35                3
                  11/9   347  L       23     28               -5

Maddox           11/30   313  L       20     24               -4
                 11/17   327  L       14     30              -16
                  9/28   332  L       13     30              -17
                  9/14   336  L       20     41              -21

Leftwich          10/5   336  W       27     21                6

Kitna             9/14   303  L       20     23               -3

Johnson          12/20   346  L       28     30               -2
                  9/14   339  L        9     12               -3
                  10/6   318  L       35     38               -3
                  11/2   323  L       14     17               -3

Hasselbeck       11/30   328  W       34      7               27
                 12/27   315  W       24     17                7
                 10/26   344  L       24     27               -3
                 11/23   333  L       41     44               -3

Green            12/14   341  W       45     17               28
                  11/9   368  W       41     20               21
                 10/12   400  W       40     34                6
                 11/16   313  L       19     24               -5
                  12/7   397  L       27     45              -18

Garcia           12/14   344  L       38     41               -3

Favre            12/22   399  W       41      7               34

Delhomme         11/16   317  W       20     17                3
                 10/19   362  L       17     37              -20

Culpepper        11/16   396  L       18     28              -10
                  11/9   370  L       28     42              -14
                 11/30   330  L       17     48              -31

Collins          10/26   375  W       29     17               12
                  11/2   303  W       31     28                3
                 10/12   314  L        6     17              -11

Carter            9/15   321  W       35     32                3

Bulger           10/13   352  W       36      0               36
                 10/26   375  W       33     21               12
                 11/23   329  W       30     27                3
                  11/2   378  L       10     30              -20

Brooks           10/19   352  W       45     17               28

Brady             11/3   350  W       30     26                4
                 11/23   368  W       23     20                3

Bledsoe           9/14   314  W       38     17               21

Blake             11/9   307  L       15     28              -13
                   9/7   363  L       24     42              -18

 

[Maikeru-sama]

CowboyInIraq, my expectations are not as high as your, even though you made some very excellent points.

I think the Offensive Line will continue its role as the "Bane" of the team. I see at least 2 Rookies on the Offensive Line. Rumor has it that Rogers has had a little trouble making the switch, but it is too early to start being a naysayer at this point. Al Johnson went down early in TC last year and though he was a high pick in the draft, will still need some time to work that knee out in real game situations and learn how to play at the Pro Level. He is the Center and therefore will have to be quick on his feet and understand everyone else's assignments. Larry Allen is still a question mark. Will he continue to check himself out of games because he cant handle being beaten by younger guys or will he show some shell of his former self? Nobody can answer that question until the season begins. Andre Gurode seemed confused with his blocking schemes at times and was a penalty magnet. Sometimes holding Tackles to early and leting Linebackers make plays or vice versa. He could possibly be beaten out by the Rookie Stephen Petermann, which would be even more questions on the line.

I think Ellis and Glover will continue to do their part. The big question is how Blade, Carson, Stewart and Wiley will play. Blade had his best game against the Eagles in the first game, but faded during the end of the season. Bill Parcells seems to be very high on Delroy Stewart, even saying "he was a different man" now. Were the underachieving numbers of Wiley a fluke the last 2 years? We will have to see, but he is proven.

Pete Hunter will be entering his 3rd year as a Pro. He has struggled to stay injury free throughout his career and really struggled in the slot when he got his opportunity. Yes, he has the size, but that must translate onto the field for me to jump on his bandwagon. Mike Irvin supposedly said they should look elsewhere after observing him in the Mini-Camps. I missed the TXCN episode, so I cannot validate this claim. However, I do know Mike speaks his mind and I think he would know a good corner if he saw one.

We have a Rookie starting at Running back and little depth after that. We have MANY questions at the Quarterback position and this is the year Quincy Carter must live up to that 2nd Round pick we used in 2001. There are still some questions at Fullback. At times Jamar Martin didnt seem like he knew where and who to block and I really dont know much about Darian Barnes. All of this uneasiness in the Backfield, questions on the Offensive Line, Antonio Bryants lack of production last year and little depth at Wideout all tells me we will probably struggle this year.

Whether we Cowboys fans want to admit it or not, the division has gotten tougher. I think the days of 2 guranteed wins against the Skins every year may be coming to an End, and Philly is still in the driver's seat in the division.

Minnesota is notorious for starting out of the gates fast and slowing down at the end.

Green Bay was a playoff team last year, and should have been in the NFC Championship game if it werent for bad playing calling on Defense on 4th and seemingly a mile.

Detroit is much improved, but I am not sure how good their chemistry will be.

Seatle should be a good team this year and was a playoff team last year. I think the addition of Bobby Taylor improves their Secondary. He and Trufant should make a great team.

Baltimore, well Baltimore is always tough.

I think we will slide. Maybe 7-9. This win prediction decreases if Carter is benched for Vinny Testeverde because I dont think the Line will be able to protect him.

This is my opinion, so I guess I cannot be wrong .

- Mike G.

 

[BHendri5]

You shouldn't, your posts read like something a third grader would write. And its not garbage, its junk.

Hold your sides because I have played football and I always preferred a QB who get accurately get the ball to his receivers as opposed to one who tossed it wherever. For some reason, this seemed to result in a lot of interceptions.



You never asked me this. You asked someone else and I think the question was more along the lines of "There have been 39 SuperBowls played, Do you know HOW many QBs has lead their teams to victory and without being as accurate as aikman."

I think that is supposed to be a question and I interpret it to mean "How many QBs have led their team to victory without being as accurate as Aikman?"

In that season? In that game? Career? Not many have been as accurate as Aikman, that is what makes him one of the greats. Did he have help from others? Of course. It took an exceptionally strong supporting cast to get Elway a Super Bowl too. Marino never got one, in part because he never had that great of a supporting cast. It takes a great team to win a Super Bowl. My point was that Aikman was a BIG part of those Super Bowl wins. He played well. He had a great career and to try to say that Jim Zorn, Steve Grogan and Quincy Carter are better QBs is borderline lunacy.



Accuracy is a talent you can be born with. Just like any other skill, some are better than others. No matter how much you practice, I bet you couldn't beat Lance Armstrong in a bike race, Wayne Gretzky in a hockey game or Troy Aikman in a throwing contest (although I won't be surprised if you claim you can ) Its also something you can improve, but some are just better than others.

Finally, I know you hate stats since they usually prove you wrong, but I thought I would point out a few others. Your biggest beef against Aikman seems to be that he was just there and his teammates carried him along.

1992 -- Passing Yds - 3597
Rushing Yds - 2121
Total Yds - 5718

Aikman threw for 3445 yards or approximately 60% of the offensive yards.
Emmitt rushed for 1713 yards and received for 335 yards or approximately 29% of the offensive yards.
Irvin received for 1396 yards or approximately 36% of the offensive yards.

He also accounted for 24 touchdowns as opposed to 19 for Emmitt(one was a pass) and 7 for Irvin.
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal1992.htm

1993 -- Passing Yds - 3617 Yds
Rushing Yds - 2161 Yds
Total Yds - 5778 Yds

Aikman threw for 3100 yds or approximately 54% of the offensive yards.
Emmitt rushed for 1486 yards and received for 414 yards for 1900 yards or approximately 33% of the offensive yards.
Irvin received for 1330 yards or approximately 23% of the offensive yards.

Aikman accounted for 15 TDs, Emmitt accounted for 10 and Irvin accounted for 7.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal1993.htm

1995 -- Passing Yds - 3741 Yards
Rushing Yds - 2201 Yards
Total Yds - 5942 Yards

Aikman threw for 3304 Yards or approximately 55% of the offensive yards.
Emmitt rushed for 1773 and received for 375 yards for approximately 35% of the offensive yards.
Irvin received for 1603 Yards or approximately 27% of the team's offensive yards.

Aikman accounted for 17 TDs, Emmitt accounted for 25 and Irvin accounted for 10.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/dal1995.htm

So, although you claim otherwise, the bulk of the offense was run through Troy Aikman. He didn't just hand off to Emmitt all the time. If you compare his total yardage each year with Irvin's, you will notice that Aikman also spread the ball around quite nicely.

I noticed in some earlier posts of this thread you seemed to ease a bit on your position on Aikman. I will readily agree that he is not the best QB of all time. He was, however, very good. Yes, he was a system QB, again, most good ones are. Yes, he took a back seat to some other terrific players in Emmitt and Irvin. Did he struggle without a supporting cast? Sure, so did others. That is one of the biggest excuses I hear for QC, why doesn't it work for Aikman?

Bottom line, he was good and I find it highly unlikely that Dallas would have won three Super Bowls without a QB of his caliber on the field.

YOU find it highly unlikely, but no one else does. YOU, love stats, because that is all you know so you run and tell stats . In you and your comrades case instead of the old saying "Run and tell that " You guys "Run and tell stats". LOL

You know what, I'll be honest with you, I cannot stand a stat person, I'll argue with a stat person all day long, they can tell me a stop sign is red and I'll swear up and down that they are color blind.

Stat people remind me of nerds, nerds are good for one thing. so when you are in a battle you can count them out, they cannot watch your back or help in anyway but to tell you what the percentages are.

Sometimes you cats, get on my nerves, because the only ammo you have in an arugment is stats, that's like carrying a peashooter into battle.

I'm like this what was the final outcome did they win are did they lose, screw the stats, if they win great, if they lose back to the drawing board and still screw the stats.

 

[DallasEast]

YOU find it highly unlikely, but no one else does. YOU, love stats, because that is all you know so you run and tell stats . In you and your comrades case instead of the old saying "Run and tell that " You guys "Run and tell stats". LOL

You know what, I'll be honest with you, I cannot stand a stat person, I'll argue with a stat person all day long, they can tell me a stop sign is red and I'll swear up and down that they are color blind.

Stat people remind me of nerds, nerds are good for one thing. so when you are in a battle you can count them out, they cannot watch your back or help in anyway but to tell you what the percentages are.

Sometimes you cats, get on my nerves, because the only ammo you have in an arugment is stats, that's like carrying a peashooter into battle.

I'm like this what was the final outcome did they win are did they lose, screw the stats, if they win great, if they lose back to the drawing board and still screw the stats.

Scoring is a statistic.

Why all the negativity towards statistics? If they weren't relevant, they wouldn't be compiled and kept for prosperity.

 

[BHendri5]

Sorry. I didn't mean to make a valid point and distract you.

apology accepted. It never fails when I have someone going, somebody always has to jump in.