Question about Garrett

[Idgit]

Who's the guy mistakenly calling plays for the immobile Leonard Davis to pull at the goalline? Haven't we all seen enough evidence that he can't do it?

How do you not undersnat that a key part of an offensive coordinator's job is to put the player he has in the best position to succeed?

If Davis can't execute that simple play in the running game--and he can't--he doesn't belong on the field.

Rather than dodging for the players, when are we going to start holding them responsible for not making stupid, avoidable mistakes at the worst possible times? theoght pointed out another example from last weekend in Balls absolute inability to support the lone route in his area of responsibility in Washington's touchdown over Scandrick. This stuff has happened in each of the three losses this season, and--along with losing the turnover battle--it's the reason we're losing the games. Yet we spend time angry with the coordinators and the head coach when it's our exceptional talent that keeps letting us down.

 

[Idgit]

Note: here's the screenshots of what I'm talking about on this particular play. This just *kills* me. And there's no reasonable way to blame a coach for this:

 

[bysbox1]

If Davis can't execute that simple play in the running game--and he can't--he doesn't belong on the field.

Davis is not a pulling guard. He's a mauler. Always has been, always will be. If Davis can't run that play, then the play does not belong in the game plan.

The players we have now are the players we have. Why put in them in a position to fail right of the bat? It's like the Roy Williams performance issue. How long did it take our offensive coaching staff to have him run routes that play to his strengths?

This staff has no excuse on this point because they know each players tendencies and have worked with most of these players for a number of years. Give the player the best chance to succeed.

 

[craig71]

Davis is not a pulling guard. He's a mauler. Always has been, always will be. If Davis can't run that play, then the play does not belong in the game plan.

The players we have now are the players we have. Why put in them in a position to fail right of the bat? It's like the Roy Williams performance issue. How long did it take our offensive coaching staff to have him run routes that play to his strengths?

This staff has no excuse on this point because they know each players tendencies and have worked with most of these players for a number of years. Give the player the best chance to succeed.

Another perspective, if you have ran that play in practice with success, wouldn't you run it in the game? That's assuming that they have ran the play in practice though.

Craig

 

[Stash]

If Davis can't execute that simple play in the running game--and he can't--he doesn't belong on the field.

Agreed. But I can't bench him, Garrett can. And I can't call plays that don't ask something of him that he can't delver on, Garrett can.

Or at least he should. He's a drive-blocker who uses his size and strength advantage to make up for other obvious shortcomings. But you have two sound choices:

1) Bench the guy and get someone who can run your plays

or

2) Call plays that he is capable of running

Rather than dodging for the players, when are we going to start holding them responsible for not making stupid, avoidable mistakes at the worst possible times?

And once again, whose job(s) is it to prepare players and enure that they don't make thses mistakes?

In our case, two guys clearly in over their head(s).

 

[Idgit]

Davis is not a pulling guard. He's a mauler. Always has been, always will be. If Davis can't run that play, then the play does not belong in the game plan.

The players we have now are the players we have. Why put in them in a position to fail right of the bat? It's like the Roy Williams performance issue. How long did it take our offensive coaching staff to have him run routes that play to his strengths?

This staff has no excuse on this point because they know each players tendencies and have worked with most of these players for a number of years. Give the player the best chance to succeed.

Seriously? This is your argument? Look at the stills. That's. Not. The. Staff's. Fault. That's Leonard Davis blowing another blocking assignment.

Not to mention that we'd run the same exact play successfully on multiple occasions, not to mention in that very same game with the very same personnel.

 

[Chocolate Lab]

Some more thoughts now that I'm back at a real keyboard... (How do you guys type worth a darn on touchscreen phones? I think I'd rather be waterboarded. Anyway...)

Of course Parcells didn't have to keep Zimmer. Why would he fire virtually everyone else but keep Zim? Parcells talked early on about how much he liked Zimmer -- the taskmaster approach, the strong work ethic, and of course being a coach's son.

Of course Wade couldn't fire Garrett. He couldn't even get a universally respected coach like Reeves in here to help RJ! I still remember early on in 2007, Wade was asked about the job Garrett was doing, and he said he was doing fine, he took charge of the meetings, etc. A reporter asked if he could get someone else in here, and Wade said, "I think Jerry would let me hire someone else if I didn't think he could do the job..." Notice how he didn't *know* he could.

MacMahon said after the Washington debacle with Kneeldowngate when all this started being discussed that if you talk to guys in the locker room, they know that it's basically a dual-head coach system here, with one guy running the O and one the D. But no one really had a problem with it. It was just the way it was.

I really didn't have a problem with hiring Garrett as a promising young coach and giving him a year with Sparano to learn. That happens all the time in coaching, and frankly there weren't a ton of options with Parcells walking out relatively late in the process (though I do think Sparano got shafted a bit in the process). There are and have been forever in football young guys who are seen as smart and bright and are given a chance. My problem is that Garrett has proven to be an average coordinator at best, and yet Jerry still seems stuck on him. Why? Why should a guy get such extra credit simply because he played for us and his dad was a former employee? This isn't some rinky-dink family business, it's the biggest team in the biggest sport in the US. It makes no sense, but Jerry will do what he wants to do.

Personally, I think Jerry planned all along for Wade to be a stopgap while Garrett got his OJT on becoming a head coach. And it was probably reinforced by the 2007 offense being so good. That's partly why Garrett got such input into the coaching hires made when the Miami guys left to be with Bill. I think Jerry was frankly surprised when it turned out that the defense only got better and the offense only got worse as time went on, and it became clear that Wade was a better head coach (and personnel man) than Jerry expected.

 

[Stash]

Davis is not a pulling guard. He's a mauler. Always has been, always will be. If Davis can't run that play, then the play does not belong in the game plan.

The players we have now are the players we have. Why put in them in a position to fail right of the bat? It's like the Roy Williams performance issue. How long did it take our offensive coaching staff to have him run routes that play to his strengths?

This staff has no excuse on this point because they know each players tendencies and have worked with most of these players for a number of years. Give the player the best chance to succeed.

This!

 

[Stash]

Seriously? This is your argument? Look at the stills. That's. Not. The. Staff's. Fault. That's Leonard Davis blowing another blocking assignment.

Not to mention that we'd run the same exact play successfully on multiple occasions, not to mention in that very same game with the very same personnel.

It is eaxactly the staff's fault for asking him to do something for which he is not capable!

How hard is this for you to understand?

Let's turn Doug Free into a receiver and then yell at him when he can't separate or catch the ball!

Yeesshh!!

 

[Idgit]

This!

...is a very weak argument.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I can't recall if it was at the end of the 2008 or 2009 season. Basically said our system was too simple and that defenses could figure it out.

Garrett immediately ran to the media for damage control. Some in the media blamed Tony's comments for Garrett not going head coaching offers that year.

Interesting.

Funny that Garrett went from being the next great young coach in this league, to well going 0 for 6 in interviews.

I'd love to be a fly on the wall when Tony talks candidly about players and coaches on this team.

 

[morasp]

Another perspective, if you have ran that play in practice with success, wouldn't you run it in the game? That's assuming that they have ran the play in practice though.

Craig

It was obvious he was on something Sunday. They had to bench him earlier. Even if he had been able to run it in practice he was having a terrible day. I watched him on one passing play before he got benched and he tried to run block. He completely missed the defender and it led to another sack.

 

[Stash]

...is a very weak argument.

Faaaaarrr from it.

There's no way you can justify Garrett putting players in position where they're ill-suited.

No way.

Davis is not, never was, and never will be a pulling guard.

Not his fault. He is who he is.

But when I can see his weaknesses, his coordinator should be able to.

 

[hmcorp]

actually we have been running that play for the past 2 years and it has always been really successful. I dont know what you guys are smoking. you obviously havent watched a cowboy game in a while. leonard davis pulling is a play we call a lot.

we run that play very successfully. he just completely missed his guy.

 

[hmcorp]

Faaaaarrr from it.

There's no way you can justify Garrett putting players in position where they're ill-suited.

No way.

Davis is not, never was, and never will be a pulling guard.

Not his fault. He is who he is.

But when I can see his weaknesses, his coordinator should be able to.

he beens running that play since he got here. and it usually is a big gainer or at least 2 or 3 yards.

davis has been running that ever since he first got here.

I think you just hate garrett. which is fine. I think they should all be fired.

But Garrett is not a terrible playcaller. You dont get 4th in yards, 2nd in TOP because you have an awful signal called.

He just cant get the team to score in the red zone. and at some point thats on him.

Still the defense is dead last in takeaways and we are still dead last in short fields for our offense so that may have a lot to do with it.

(saints...top 3 in takeaways, top in short fields, top in defensive scores last year)

this year for the saints...not so much. and they struggle offensively...they are struggling cause they keep having to go from their own 20 to the other end...sound familiar?

 

[Stash]

he beens running that play since he got here. and it usually is a big gainer or at least 2 or 3 yards.

davis has been running that ever since he first got here.

He's ill-suited for it. Would you deny that?

I think you just hate garrett. which is fine. I think they should all be fired.

But Garrett is not a terrible playcaller. You dont get 4th in yards, 2nd in TOP because you have an awful signal called.

He just cant get the team to score in the red zone. and at some point thats on him.

Honestly, I'd rather never hear the failed 'yardage' excuse ever again. As soon as they award wins for yardage, feel free to bring that up.

The fact is that nobody in this league has more talent to work with than Jason Garrett does - nobody. And nobody underachieves with what he has more than Garrett does - nobody.

Still the defense is dead last in takeaways and we are still dead last in short fields for our offense so that may have a lot to do with it.

(saints...top 3 in takeaways, top in short fields, top in defensive scores last year)

this year for the saints...not so much. and they struggle offensively...they are struggling cause they keep having to go from their own 20 to the other end...sound familiar?

No doubt there's plenty of blame to go around.

I won't try to pin this week's loss on Garrett, but I won't exonerate him of any blame in it either.

Like I said, plenty of that to go around.

 

[Idgit]

Faaaaarrr from it.

There's no way you can justify Garrett putting players in position where they're ill-suited.

No way.

Davis is not, never was, and never will be a pulling guard.

Not his fault. He is who he is.

But when I can see his weaknesses, his coordinator should be able to.

It's rarely as obvious as it is in this isolated play, so if you can't or won't see it now, there's no hope we'll ever agree on the topic. But if Davis can't make this play, there's no point calling plays around him because he's completely useless at the NFL level. I'm sure Davis himself would say that he just blew it here, because he did.

 

[hmcorp]

He's ill-suited for it. Would you deny that?



Honestly, I'd rather never hear the failed 'yardage' excuse ever again. As soon as they award wins for yardage, feel free to bring that up.

The fact is that nobody in this league has more talent to work with than Jason Garrett does - nobody. And nobody underachieves with what he has more than Garrett does - nobody.



No doubt there's plenty of blame to go around.

I won't try to pin this week's loss on Garrett, but I won't exonerate him of any blame in it either.

Like I said, plenty of that to go around.

Why is he ill suited for it if it is very effective and has given us our best goal line plays. It didnt work this time because it is evident that we needed to take him out. which we did. he didnt play well but he run that play very well and has for the past two years.

Yardage? The reason we have to have so much yardage is because our field position sucks. We constantly start within our 25. Our defense can only get a three and out if they are on our 50 yard line already. And god forbid they get a takeaway.

Once again the saints are struggling to score this year.

1. less takeaways.
2. less defensive scores.
3. less short fields.

something this offense has dealt with for the past 2 years. And continues to deal with because special teams and the defense suck.

now the offense is sucking in the red zone. hence fire garrett. but you dont rack up yards on offenses because the defense KNOWS YOUR PLAYS and has you figured out...thats just stupid.

Most talent? really? I would argue dallas has a lot more 1st round talent and top tier players drafted on the defensive side of the ball...

our offensive line is old and creaky. and we do have an aging tight end who is starting to show some wear and tear this year. not as quick out of the blocks as he was last year and previous years.

 

[Stash]

It's rarely as obvious as it is in this isolated play, so if you can't or won't see it now, there's no hope we'll ever agree on the topic.

I see that Davis can't make that play, it's clear. What's also clear is that a player of his size, strength, and lack of speed, agility and intelligence, shouldn't be put in position to struggle like that. If Garrett wants to run an offense so ill-suited to Davis' skillset, then Davis shouldn't be here.

But if Davis can't make this play, there's no point calling plays around him because he's completely useless at the NFL level.

He's got his strengths, he's a phone-booth mauler. But when your coach can't and won't call run plays, there's no use for him in Dallas. Either change the playcalling or change the player, it's not that hard.

I'm sure Davis himself would say that he just blew it here, because he did.

Sure. And he'll probably give the same old, tired, 'next time' line like everyone else gives.

There's always tomorrow around here, until there isn't.

 

[hmcorp]

I see that Davis can't make that play, it's clear. What's also clear is that a player of his size, strength, and lack of speed, agility and intelligence, shouldn't be put in position to struggle like that. If Garrett wants to run an offense so ill-suited to Davis' skillset, then Davis shouldn't be here.



He's got his strengths, he's a phone-booth mauler. But when your coach can't and won't call run plays, there's no use for him in Dallas. Either change the playcalling or change the player, it's not that hard.



Sure. And he'll probably give the same old, tired, 'next time' line like everyone else gives.

There's always tomorrow around here, until there isn't.

Once again you are ignorant. That play is a bread and butter play. it is almost always an automatic 3 or 4 yard play. davis usuallygets a hat on someone and sometimes we break that play too. but if you have watched the cowboys you would know we have been pulling him and he has been devestating opening up space when we pull him for the yardage.

but its easier to see when it fails and assume it fails all the time...