Question for the workout people

[jterrell]

But at that age, you had your testosterone surge, which was the main reason the increased muscle mass and weight was achievable.

Other such anecdotal evidence is also likely associated with the natural rise of GH and testosterone, even if it's delayed until 18 or 19.

that's very true.
my face looked straight up like a pizza.

the point being science is fine but the human body isn't static and i can show you studies of all sorts that are controlled thus don't apply.

we have seen NFL players gain tremendous strength and size gains... like Greg Hardy.
we can merely speculate as to what supplements they were taking....

i generally agree that gregory will have a hard time gaining raw muscle.
i do think he will be able to play at a higher weight and gain a fair amount of strength in short order.
since i have no desire to pet his abs what do I care about his bodyfat %?
he and the team have to find right playing weight for him.

 

[Hardline]

And taking artificial testosterone for too long a period will lower your own bodies ability to produce testosterone and when you stop taking the artificial test, your own body isn't making enough... and girly thingies start to grow up there.

Or at least that's how it was told to me.

I am doing it under doctor supervision. My T levels are being monitored.

 

[Doc50]

that's a terrible cycle for gaining weight FWIW.

one would use cadaver hgh, dianabol (not winny which is lean enough that female and male strippers take it) as the oral and deca... like arnold did 30 years ago.

tren, test, winny is a great lean builder's cycle but no where near max size.

just taking dianabol you can gain 10 pounds of water weight in a week and and another 5 in muscle.

Yes, the water weight is significant when adding up the weight gain.

Depending on the proteins and any PED's, 1-2 gallons of water may be retained compared with previous level. Water weight 8 1/3 lb per gallon.

 

[AsthmaField]

I am doing it under doctor supervision. My T levels are being monitored.

Well, if you're doing it under a doctor's supervision... then it should all be copacetic.

Bodybuilders who are using it off the streets will be taking way, WAY more test than you are probably taking. At the levels a doctor would give it to you, there should be no worries.

At least this explains your nasty moods sometimes.

 

[GimmeTheBall!]

Gregory is trying to add bulk this offseason. I assume muscle and not fat??

Isn't it impossible to add 10 or 20 pounds of muscle in such a short time without PEDs?

I started working out a few years ago and it took me a year to add 20 pounds of muscle.

If he can avoid the munchies, work with his trainer and eat lots of protein I think he can achief his goals.

 

[CrownCowboy]

Yup. It helps you retain water which floods the muscles. That adds strength so you can lift heavier weights which promotes further muscle growth.
It is like a legal and non dangerous version of Dianabol.

There was once a legal over the counter called Spawn. My nephew used that working with me and gained about 25 pounds in 3 months. A lot of that was water but he got much stronger and set all his personal bests. And he's spent his entire life as a string bean so he needed the water.
Once they outlawed spawn he lost the water weight and his strength has waned a bit.
It acted much like illegal Dianabol.

For him the creatine isn't strong enough to overcome his genetic build.

Yeah it really does hinder on genetics for everybody.

If you have always been a string bean, then it's probably always been a challenge to hold weight or be capable to put up alot of weight in your workouts. Adding lean muscle though is always more noticeable for people of that frame when they do in fact add muscle.

My metabolism was always high and I was always a stick growing up. Now after lifting for awhile over the years I never really have to worry about fat but about keeping muscle and adding it.

Creatine sure has helped me though. As mentioned, after taking it for three months I go a month off of it because it bloats the hell out of me. To each his own.

 

[jterrell]

And taking artificial testosterone for too long a period will lower your own bodies ability to produce testosterone and when you stop taking the artificial test, your own body isn't making enough... and girly thingies start to grow up there.

Or at least that's how it was told to me.

now they love to give(make money duh) test to most adult males over 40.
just enough to supplement them back to about age 25 levels.

that isn't the type of overload that causes man boobs or test shutdown.

those heavy steroid users have to take breast cancer drugs and also HCG to get fight off super nasty sude effects.

 

[xwalker]

I am doing it under doctor supervision. My T levels are being monitored.

As far as I know, the only way they can be drug tested for testosterone supplementation is if it exceeds some max allowable level.

The range is somewhere around 250 to 1,100 ng/dL. I think you need to be under about 350 before most doctors with treat you.

 

[jobberone]

But at that age, you had your testosterone surge, which was the main reason the increased muscle mass and weight was achievable.

Other such anecdotal evidence is also likely associated with the natural rise of GH and testosterone, even if it's delayed until 18 or 19.

That's most of it but you still have to work the muscles to gain mostly muscle mass and a lot to gain that much. Mature adults can't gain that much weight unless they start off relatively undernourished and/or underdeveloped. People get ill or starve and drop a great deal of body mass. They get well and if they train can gain that back rapidly. So rapid skeletal mass gain is not unusual just not typical. A healthy, well developed mature male can gain only so much skeletal mass over time.

While it's anecdotal to report one or a few observations, it is not to report many observations over time whether its published or not. That is not peer reviewed but still can't be outright dismissed depending on the source.

Some individuals are mesomorphic by nature primarily genetics. Those who aren't just have to eat right and work much harder at it.

 

[Doc50]

That's most of it but you still have to work the muscles to gain mostly muscle mass and a lot to gain that much. Mature adults can't gain that much weight unless they start off relatively undernourished and/or underdeveloped. People get ill or starve and drop a great deal of body mass. They get well and if they train can gain that back rapidly. So rapid skeletal mass gain is not unusual just not typical. A healthy, well developed mature male can gain only so much skeletal mass over time.

While it's anecdotal to report one or a few observations, it is not to report many observations over time whether its published or not. That is not peer reviewed but still can't be outright dismissed depending on the source.

Some individuals are mesomorphic by nature primarily genetics. Those who aren't just have to eat right and work much harder at it.

Agreed -- genetics plays a major role, such that thin & wiry parents aren't going to produce children who are able to achieve large muscle mass without the help of steroids or HGH. That doesn't mean that strength can't be achieved, however; but muscle strength doesn't directly correlate with muscle size.

 

[garyv]

Me and my Wife just joined the Gym ourselves however she is trying to do the opposite and lose weight and 5 weeks ago
had bariactric sleeve surgery but I'm 5'9 about 182lbs trying to add a little muscle even though may not can at Age 54. I use to weight 219
in 2012 until Gallbladder was removed than I've trickled down in weight and pretty much stayed around 180 lbs. My arms are pretty muscular
due to always doing light resistance training every morning but lower body sucks and starting to believe its hard to add a lot of muscle at age 54.
SInce starting the Gym I've been study the Calorie intake needed daily and it shows for my height and weight and age I should eat 2700 Calories
a day and to add muscle I need an additional 300 to 500 Calories. Dang that's 3200 Calories a day....I find this extremely difficult to do especially
not having a Gallbladder

 

[Doc50]

now they love to give(make money duh) test to most adult males over 40.
just enough to supplement them back to about age 25 levels.

that isn't the type of overload that causes man boobs or test shutdown.

those heavy steroid users have to take breast cancer drugs and also HCG to get fight off super nasty sude effects.

If testosterone is below physiologic levels for age related testing, then the individual will have notable decrease from norm in muscle mass, strength, energy, stamina, and sexual function. Replacement is then initiated only to re-achieve the physiologic levels.

So any patient under this treatment will not be building muscle to a level more than their norm, nor will they experience any of the side effects of PED usage, which are by design at much higher levels.

 

[jobberone]

Agreed -- genetics plays a major role, such that thin & wiry parents aren't going to produce children who are able to achieve large muscle mass without the help of steroids or HGH. That doesn't mean that strength can't be achieved, however; but muscle strength doesn't directly correlate with muscle size.

I always wished I could have the strength per size and muscle mass of a chimp or leopard. Alas, I'm in the lower part of the gene pool in regards to natural strength. It's a constant struggle to stay strong.

Read a study not long ago as to longevity in humans relating at 60 to lower and core strength. One simple test is to have the patient sit crosslegged on the floor and get up without use of the upper body. That positively correlates to a high degree to longevity. I think it was on average 5 or 7 years over those who couldn't but I can't remember for sure.

 

[Doc50]

Yeah it really does hinder on genetics for everybody.

If you have always been a string bean, then it's probably always been a challenge to hold weight or be capable to put up alot of weight in your workouts. Adding lean muscle though is always more noticeable for people of that frame when they do in fact add muscle.

My metabolism was always high and I was always a stick growing up. Now after lifting for awhile over the years I never really have to worry about fat but about keeping muscle and adding it.

Creatine sure has helped me though. As mentioned, after taking it for three months I go a month off of it because it bloats the hell out of me. To each his own.

Creatine also damages your liver.

 

[jobberone]

Me and my Wife just joined the Gym ourselves however she is trying to do the opposite and lose weight and 5 weeks ago
had bariactric sleeve surgery but I'm 5'9 about 182lbs trying to add a little muscle even though may not can at Age 54. I use to weight 219
in 2012 until Gallbladder was removed than I've trickled down in weight and pretty much stayed around 180 lbs. My arms are pretty muscular
due to always doing light resistance training every morning but lower body sucks and starting to believe its hard to add a lot of muscle at age 54.
SInce starting the Gym I've been study the Calorie intake needed daily and it shows for my height and weight and age I should eat 2700 Calories
a day and to add muscle I need an additional 300 to 500 Calories. Dang that's 3200 Calories a day....I find this extremely difficult to do especially
not having a Gallbladder

Buy pork bellies. Lots of fat. I'll send you my recipe for hong shao ro. If you can't eat fat then that sucks.

 

[garyv]

Does anyone know of a good Protein Powder with little side affects. Current just using Muscle Milk daily.
Doc50 your scaring me because I bought som Gold Standard Whey and it has the Creatine in it. The only
thing when I drank the Whey which I used 16 ounces of Almond Milk and 2 to 3 scoops of whey which equaled
about a 50 gram shake I was getting headaches and slight dizziness and wondered about Whey ?

 

[garyv]

Jobberone I think the fats gives me a little trouble. Tummy rumbles a lot and sometimes to the Toilet.
THey have told me when getting Gallbladder out eat lean meats and Chicken and Turkey much better than Beef.

 

[CrownCowboy]

Creatine also damages your liver.

Yeah, if you take 20 or 30 grams a day.

Taking 5 grams, which is all that a lifter really needs to take, will give you benefits and does nothing to your liver.

 

[JBell]

I was not expecting this thread to be 5 pages (no offense Zoners)

 

[Doc50]

I always wished I could have the strength per size and muscle mass of a chimp or leopard. Alas, I'm in the lower part of the gene pool in regards to natural strength. It's a constant struggle to stay strong.

Read a study not long ago as to longevity in humans relating at 60 to lower and core strength. One simple test is to have the patient sit crosslegged on the floor and get up without use of the upper body. That positively correlates to a high degree to longevity. I think it was on average 5 or 7 years over those who couldn't but I can't remember for sure.

Yeah, saw that, too. The core is so important to doing anything else.

I still do sit-ups and leg-lifts; my six pack is in the fridge, though.