Question re: Dak and greed

[kskboys]

Aren't you the one that mentioned something earlier about a free market system? In a free market the argument can't be that a player has to accept what the team offers because otherwise he is hurting the team. In a free market a player has to be able to try and negotiate for what he thinks he is worth.

Absolutely, but you're now twisting it. If a free market, the negotiators should both be negotiating in good faith. Dak and his agent are not.

And above all, I'm a fan of the Cowboys. Paying Dak a bloated amount is going to hurt the team. And that is why I'm against him getting a bloated contract.

If the Cowboys were only offering Dak, say 12 mil/season when others are making 30, I'd be on Dak's side. That would be a lowball offer.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

how would you know? You didn't try. The funny thing is I didn't even disagree with some of what you were saying, but rather that you insisted that is somehow related to what I said.

Whatever. Conversation is over. Go discuss money or whatever with whomever you were discussing it with. Feel free to move on, completely, without me on this one. I'm not interested in discussing something as stupid as "Pay The Man" crap. Knock yourself out, but without me, if you please.

 

[kskboys]

Do I think Prescott is greedy? No, I do not.

One of the most amusing parts of this forum is our determination of what a player is worth. Or that it is any player's responsibility to help the team manage it's cap.

Any player is worth whatever he can get come negotiating time including Lawrence, Smith, Big Smitty, Collins, Martin, Cooper, Elliott and Prescott. Not one of them is responsible for making sure the others can get what they want. Prescott has been the best bargain player over his 4 years and took a chance on himself in his contract year. In his mind, has he not earned this contract and the right to it? Are we guilty of looking forward and not back over those 4 years at what a deal he was?

Now, add to this those players getting what they've got and do you think that doesn't have an effect on all future negotiations? The bank is open and Booger is signing checks.

Let's add two more elements to this. One is the ego and pride that goes with knowing you are at the top of your peer group and that is so important to some that is written into their contract, no player can make more at their position and that's been in there a long time.

Now, let's add this last element and if you don't think this matters to a man from Prescott's background, you need to think again. This owner is a show off. Lives in a mansion, makes sure the public knows how much his toys cost, constantly seeks the spotlight, drinks $75 a bottle scotch and even shows up all the owners in the league in the draft by picking form his 250M boat and makes sure everyone knows that. You are going to cut this guy a break?

The joke in all of this are the posters that react to Stuphen's comments about % of the cap to the QB or Booger's about it's Prescott's responsibility to help us build the team around him. Where in the hell do the Joneses think Prescott's been while they've been doing the Lawrence, Elliott, Smith and Cooper deals?

If I need to justify whatever he's going to get, I can easily do that by adding the past 4 years and that money along with the guarantee portion of this and divide by the total number of years.

I can also justify the player by not laying those playoff losses on him. It is not his fault that in his bargain years they failed to do what BAL, KC and HOU have done with their 1st contract QB's.

Of course. However, that is strictly from the players POV. In reality, paying players bloated contracts leads to mediocrity. So, why can't players be OK w/ receiving a fair amount(30 mil/season, for example) so the team can try to build a contender?

 

[Doomsday]

Personally I think they are all greedy, the players and owners and the fans are the ones who are being priced out of games.

Guess that is the way it works with supply and demand but it is also why I only go to games occasionally.

 

[CCBoy]

I don't disagree at all. It's just that none of this, nor what ABQCowboy has posted relates to the post of mine that ABQCowboy quoted and responded to.

I wholeheartedly with you that we need Dak signed up as quickly as possible to prepare for the season.
And I wholeheartedly agree with ABQCowboy that how a team is able to spread things our under the salary cap is important.

Prescott is going into his fifth year as the Cowboys’ starter. Last season, he passed for 4,902 yards and 30 touchdowns, both career-highs. However, the Cowboys missed the playoffs, finishing with an 8-8 record.

Still, Prescott has taken Dallas to the playoffs twice as a starter, and won a playoff game in 2018...

...“I’m not sure if that is the case. I think something about the structure of this contract is giving Dak and his agent pause as far as signing. I’ve never known a guy to fight over year if he’s going to get $100 million guaranteed because usually that’s all that matters to NFL players. But this right here is a situation where I think Stephen Jones finally came out and said something that gave us a glimmer into the darkness of the money not being a thing they are agreeing on either.”

...“The kind of demand that they are asking for that will make even the Kansas City Chiefs officials swallow hard because they don’t even want to pay Patrick Mahomes the kind of money that Dak and his new agent are asking for right now. I told you it’s out of bounds. It’s unrealistic. It’s simply wrong, and Jerry knows it’s wrong – and Jerry Jones has a reputation for overpaying players. Jerry Jones is finally digging in on his side and saying, ‘I’m sorry that’s just too much.'”

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story...s-stephen-051220?utm_source=NEWSandRUMORS.com

If Dak needs to see a recruiter, I can arrange that for him...he simply needs to lock his heels, raise his hand, and swear in!

 

[OmerV]

Absolutely, but you're now twisting it. If a free market, the negotiators should both be negotiating in good faith. Dak and his agent are not.

And above all, I'm a fan of the Cowboys. Paying Dak a bloated amount is going to hurt the team. And that is why I'm against him getting a bloated contract.

If the Cowboys were only offering Dak, say 12 mil/season when others are making 30, I'd be on Dak's side. That would be a lowball offer.

That's not twisting it, that's just how a free market works. And if Dak and his agent feel they can get more by holding firm, that is part of it. Being a free market doesn't somehow mean hardball tactics don't apply. Hell, flat out saying no is also applicable to a free market, as is drawing a line in the sand.

Besides, how do we know Dak and his agent aren't negotiating in good faith? All we have are rumors that change all the time, and for all we know never had much, if any, basis to begin with. No, I'm sure the Cowboys aren't offering something outrageously lowball like $12 million/year, but I'm just as sure Dak isn't asking something equally outrageous on the high side, like $45 million/year. The two sides are obviously much closer than that.

 

[OmerV]

Whatever. Conversation is over. Go discuss money or whatever with whomever you were discussing it with. Feel free to move on, completely, without me on this one. I'm not interested in discussing something as stupid as "Pay The Man" crap. Knock yourself out, but without me, if you please.

lol - this just highlights how ridiculous your attempts in this conversation were. There was never any "Pay the Man" crap in the conversation - nothing close to it. You just created your own world in your own head and pretended it had some relevance to what I was discussing.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

lol - this just highlights how ridiculous your attempts in this conversation were. There was never any "Pay the Man" crap in the conversation - nothing close to it. You just created your own world in your own head and pretended it had some relevance to what I was discussing.

Cool. Have fun.

 

[Runwildboys]

This is the key thing many don't understand. Pay isn't based on somebody's ranking of players at a position, or whether someone thinks a number just sounds too big, or even how much of the salary cap a player's salary takes up. It's based on whatever a player can negotiate, and whatever a team is willing to pay.

True, but that doesn't mean the player isn't being greedy.

 

[Corso]

Sometimes this forum is a panacea. Sometimes it's overpowering aggravation.
Lol! Lots of testiness going on in here.

 

[texbumthelife]

I know I know, I just couldn’t help myself despite the numerous Dak threads.

This really isn’t a question of what you think he should be paid, or what he deserves, more do you honestly think it’s just “greed” considering the (league relative) peanuts he played for for 4 years?

No matter what your opinion on him as a player or as your teams QB, there is NO argument that he massively outplayed his draft position and associated contract. Stepping in from day one as the starter and on through the present, he’s made roughly what we’re giving Dalton to the be the backup for a year. And he did it without a peep. There was never any holdout talk, any salary talk, any hint of bitterness or entitlement, just did his job and fulfilled the contract in full and without any drama around it.

With that said, I (personally don’t begrudge him for pushing for whatever he wants, because that’s the mechanics of the league in the same fashion the contract he previously received and honored. I’m just not seeing the greed.

I don't think it's greed and believe he has every right to go after what he thinks he's worth. I don't hold it against him at all. As a fan of the Cowboys first, however, my allegiance is to the team and I believe the contract he's after would absolutely cripple the team's ability to field a Superbowl quality squad.

 

[OmerV]

True, but that doesn't mean the player isn't being greedy.

That's true. But it also doesn't mean the team isn't being unreasonable either. Without the details of the discussions it's pretty hard to judge.

 

[Runwildboys]

Personally I think they are all greedy, the players and owners and the fans are the ones who are being priced out of games.

Guess that is the way it works with supply and demand but it is also why I only go to games occasionally.

Agreed. I haven't been to a game as an adult, because the money necessary to go is money necessary to me. I'd love to go see a game, but not at the expense of worrying about getting my bills paid.

 

[OmerV]

Sometimes this forum is a panacea. Sometimes it's overpowering aggravation.
Lol! Lots of testiness going on in here.

Go screw yourself.

 

[Corso]

Go screw yourself.

Lol! I'll uh... see myself out then.

 

[Runwildboys]

That's true. But it also doesn't mean the team isn't being unreasonable either. Without the details of the discussions it's pretty hard to judge.

Well, if we're all going by what we're hearing, that they're offering north of 33mil/year for five years, but he wants a shorter contract, so he can jump into free agency, that seems greedy to me.
That said, I'm all for giving him a shorter contract. If he proves himself worth more - great, pay him accordingly. If he doesn't prove himself to be worth more, it's one less year we're stuck with his contract.

 

[Runwildboys]

Sometimes this forum is a panacea. Sometimes it's overpowering aggravation.
Lol! Lots of testiness going on in here.

You wanna experience aggravation? Go watch SciManDan's Flat Earth Fridays, on YouTube. Makes me wish I could punch these people in the face through my TV.

 

[Corso]

You wanna experience aggravation? Go watch SciManDan's Flat Earth Fridays, on YouTube. Makes me wish I could punch these people in the face through my TV.

Never heard of it! I have a childhood friend that truly, truly believes the Earth is flat.

And hollow.

My wife is a former geophysicist and she gives old boy the worst stink-eye when he brings that stuff up, but there is no convincing him whatsoever. The world is flat and hollow.

 

[Runwildboys]

Never heard of it! I have a childhood friend that truly, truly believes the Earth is flat.

And hollow.

My wife is a former geophysicist and she gives old boy the worst stink-eye when he brings that stuff up, but there is no convincing him whatsoever. The world is flat and hollow.

Well, if it's flat, how can it be hollow? Never mind, just punch him in the face for me...please?

And then have him watch SciManDan's Flat Earth Fridays. Maybe he'll see what arrogant imbeciles he's following.

So I assume he also believes we never landed on the moon?....Kick him in the nuts.

 

[CouchCoach]

Of course. However, that is strictly from the players POV. In reality, paying players bloated contracts leads to mediocrity. So, why can't players be OK w/ receiving a fair amount(30 mil/season, for example) so the team can try to build a contender?

What's wrong with the owner spending 250M on a boat instead of 150M? Everything about this guy is flash even down to making sure we all know what he drinks. Why should any player cut this showoff a deal?

The cap is not the players' problem, it is solely the owner's to manage.

Just because the QB is the leader of the team, should he be the one to cut a deal? Couldn't Lawrence shave some off that 21M or Elliott that 15M or Cooper that 20M?

It is not the responsibility of any player to cut a deal to allow the owner to build a contender. It is all on the owner to do that and Kraft did that by letting his QB know that was all they were going to pay. The Skins let their QB walk over money.

ksk, I get the sentiment that these guys should be one for all but it's just not that way. It's every man for himself and if that means changing teams or forcing others to do that because of their deal, so be it.

My only problem is when they talk about it. Prescott says "everyone can get paid" and that's total BS and he knows it, he's trying to justify something that doesn't need it. Flacco said he didn't want to lose any players off the defending SB champs, knowing full well at 20M, that is exactly what was going to happen and did happen.

It is only a team sport when the game begins and ends.