Quick Trey Lance Breakdown

[Mac_MaloneV1]

Can a team win games when the QB simply panics play after play, rolls out slowly right into sacks.....and punts.
Or he audibles into run plays just to avoid the panic on a down& distance that requirea a pass

Sure only 2 Int's, but the panic plays are just as bad.

This is really, really stupid if you're talking about Dak.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Again Love played in HS and College. Trance his no experience.

I'm not arguing against that. Its the exact reason why I think we should give more leash to the guy than we normally would.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I don't know that I would have made the trade for him. But he is here now and with an open mind I can see that he does have talent and is progressing. So, the best path forward is to give him every opportunity.

Oh i'm for the trade. I didn't know he was this raw but even then I make the trade. But I never expected a franchise QB. I figured at the worse maybe we have a backup QB. Its a 4th rounder so a solid backup on a decent deal can go a long way. Even if you develop him and trade him at some point. I see some use for that. I'm probably in the minority that still trades for him. I mean if I knew I could get Justin Fields for a 6th rounder I would've preferred that but I also thought Fields would be traded for a 1st or 2nd so there's that.

My problem was I had no idea he was still this raw.

I'm looking at all these rookies like Maye, Williams and all these other guys.....something is disconnecting with Lance. I don't know what it is but something is not clicking. He can't read a defense and I don't know why in year 4 he can't against preseason talent.

 

[McKDaddy]

So if we have a big lead Trance should go in and hand the ball off to run out the clock. How is that going help him?

If we are losing big and Trance goes in and plays well against a prevent D, is that going to properly prepare him?

Playing time is playing time.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

I'm not arguing against that. Its the exact reason why I think we should give more leash to the guy than we normally would.

Yeah but lack of experience doesn't warrant giving more of a leash. Lack of experience may be what hinders him for the rest of his career. He's trying to do things that some guys have already learned before they even start facing NFL talent.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I didn't write him off. Kyle Shanahan and the 49ers did. I trust them over the Cowboys or myself if i'm being honest. I don't believe they give up on a solid prospect for a 4th rounder.

Even the Cowboys saw him as a 2nd round prospect.

The issue is what you guys give him an excuse for is his lack of playing....

I think that very well could be his hinderance. He may never be a good QB in this league because of his lack of playing time up to this point. Guys have played far more games then him and it never clicks for them.

SF already has their QB though, there really isnt any reason to keep Lance around, especially if they would have to pay him as a 1st round pick. The Cowboys viewing him as a 2nd round prospect was probably pretty accurate in hindsight, it should give the Cowboys some credibility in their ability to evaluate talent.

I think the big issue for SF to keep Lance, and honestly even the issue with the Cowboys making him the backup is that you really have to run a different offense with him in the game. Purdy to Lance and even Dak to Lance is going to require an altered scheme, probably more RPO heavy, where as Rush is likely to run a similar offense, just an abbreviated version of it as his arm talent is limited.

I think his evaluation from the Cowboys is still incomplete, and itll be interesting to see if you get some whispers of him impressing in practice after it was a very quite year after he was acquired last season.

 

[thunderpimp91]

Yeah but lack of experience doesn't warrant giving more of a leash. Lack of experience may be what hinders him for the rest of his career. He's trying to do things that some guys have already learned before they even start facing NFL talent.

Sure it does. Its completely reasonable to expect a player with less experience to need more time to develop. The Cowboys have legitimate QB1 and QB2 options right now so they have time to spare as long as they are willing to utilize the roster spot on him. I completely agree that they Cowboys will have to get creative with ways to get him reps, whether that be scout team or something else, but that doesnt mean that they cant figure it out.

We see the physical tools he has. He still has a ways to go, but a lot of what he still has to learn seems to be very teachable if the player is coachable.

 

[Kevinicus]

Yea I already said as much...

But the point is that he can't consistently get the ball downfield without turning it over. For all we know, the underneath INTs were the product of waiting too long to see if something was open downfield and being late on the delivery.

That may be the point, but the evidence doesn't support that, as the ints weren't the results of going downfield. And we can clearly see by looking at the plays in question that it wasn't because of waiting too long.
INT 1 - sprint right. His didn't look at the defenders. If he had, he would have gone downfield for a huge completion.
INT 2 - Bad pre-snap read, went the wrong direction. This was a short field, downfield isn't an option.
INT 3 - A quick play, missed the dropping DE. Wasn't attempting downfield.
INT 4 - Immediate pressure, WR can't be outmuscled like that.
INT 5 - Final play. Forced to go downfield. Some mechanics issue. Needed to step up and then throw. Actually threw too soon.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

That may be the point, but the evidence doesn't support that, as the ints weren't the results of going downfield. And we can clearly see by looking at the plays in question that it wasn't because of waiting too long.
INT 1 - sprint right. His didn't look at the defenders. If he had, he would have gone downfield for a huge completion.
INT 2 - Bad pre-snap read, went the wrong direction. This was a short field, downfield isn't an option.
INT 3 - A quick play, missed the dropping DE. Wasn't attempting downfield.
INT 4 - Immediate pressure, WR can't be outmuscled like that.
INT 5 - Final play. Forced to go downfield. Some mechanics issue. Needed to step up and then throw. Actually threw too soon.

Ok? What is your point?

INT 1 he missed the guy WIDE OPEN down the field with a simple hi-low read.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

Sure it does. Its completely reasonable to expect a player with less experience to need more time to develop. The Cowboys have legitimate QB1 and QB2 options right now so they have time to spare as long as they are willing to utilize the roster spot on him. I completely agree that they Cowboys will have to get creative with ways to get him reps, whether that be scout team or something else, but that doesnt mean that they cant figure it out.

We see the physical tools he has. He still has a ways to go, but a lot of what he still has to learn seems to be very teachable if the player is coachable.

Who's done this then? What player has only played 16 games of high school and NCAA football and went on to be a franchise QB? Or even a All pro or Pro bowler? It doesn't happen and that's sort of my point. No hurt in keeping him on the roster but its important to understand that if you are the Cowboys they need to understand that guy will more than likely never make it in this league than make it. So build your team accordingly.

Quincy Carter had physical tools. Josh Rosen had them. Physical tools are not what separates the good players from the bad.

 

[Chasing6]

I'm not arguing against that. Its the exact reason why I think we should give more leash to the guy than we normally would.

I don't think anyone is arguing he is a great athlete, that he is young and that he has potential.

The question, becomes with his unbelievable lack of experience coming out of college, how do you get him caught up?

Preseason games, running the scout team and garbage time I don't believe will get it done.

Someone needs to take a blind leap of faith like the Niners did,(no he did not beat our Jimmy G.) and just make him the starter for a year. That is the only way, someone is going to see if he can actually learn and make progress.

 

[TheMarathonContinues]

SF already has their QB though, there really isnt any reason to keep Lance around, especially if they would have to pay him as a 1st round pick. The Cowboys viewing him as a 2nd round prospect was probably pretty accurate in hindsight, it should give the Cowboys some credibility in their ability to evaluate talent.

I think the big issue for SF to keep Lance, and honestly even the issue with the Cowboys making him the backup is that you really have to run a different offense with him in the game. Purdy to Lance and even Dak to Lance is going to require an altered scheme, probably more RPO heavy, where as Rush is likely to run a similar offense, just an abbreviated version of it as his arm talent is limited.

I think his evaluation from the Cowboys is still incomplete, and itll be interesting to see if you get some whispers of him impressing in practice after it was a very quite year after he was acquired last season.

Aye I give them their due for that and it doesn't get talked about enough. The Cowboys saw him as a 2nd round prospect and the 49ers felt he was worth 3 1st rounders. Much respect to them because I even thought he was worthy of a 1st rounder but I respect it.

I think they gave him every way to beat out Purdy and when it became clear Darnold was better they had to move on for his sake and theirs.

 

[Chasing6]

Playing time is playing time.

No, actually it is not.

 

[thunderpimp91]

I don't think anyone is arguing he is a great athlete, that he is young and that he has potential.

The question, becomes with his unbelievable lack of experience coming out of college, how do you get him caught up?

Preseason games, running the scout team and garbage time I don't believe will get it done.

Someone needs to take a blind leap of faith like the Niners did,(no he did not beat our Jimmy G.) and just make him the starter for a year. That is the only way, someone is going to see if he can actually learn and make progress.

If Dak resigns then it's a moot point, and honestly the Cowboys shouldnt be wasting their time developing a project QB in his walk year. If he were to walk this offseason though I think the Cowboys instantly become a candidate to be that team to take a blind leap of faith. Until they get resolution on Daks situation I think they have to be open minded with Lance and need to be creative in how they get him some sort of reps even if it is in practice.

 

[doomsday9084]

Makes me wonder if some of it is McCarthy's offense because I see this type of thing with Dak quite a bit. Kurt Warner talked about a pure progression system and how it makes things tougher on the QB at times.

When I watch the all-22 videos, Dak will have 4 defenders on 2 receivers to his right and 2 on 2 to his left and he drops back looking to his right.

From what I understand, the QB makes a left right read before the snap. Once the play gets going, he then has a high/low read on the side of the field that he has chosen.

Its quick and its simple. There are a lot of advantages to that but if opponents disguise coverage pre-snap you can get some poor decisions.

 

[Kevinicus]

Ok? What is your point?

INT 1 he missed the guy WIDE OPEN down the field with a simple hi-low read.

That you're going on and on about downfield but not making logical sense.

 

[Chasing6]

This is just a breakdown on one of Trey's INTs.

Along with Joey Galloway and Roy Williams, Trey Lance is now in the chat room of all-time horrible acquisitions made by Dallas Cowboys owner/GM/president Jerry Jones.


https://www.star-telegram.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/mac-engel/article291358695.html

 

[McKDaddy]

No, actually it is not.

Doubt you could find a coach that will agree with you.

 

[Mac_MaloneV1]

That you're going on and on about downfield but not making logical sense.

He can't throw downfield. The fact that he's throwing picks short (which, to a degree is because he can't see downfield, like the first) is a problem lol.

I don't know what about that you disagree with

 

[Chasing6]

Doubt you could find a coach that will agree with you.

You think scrub time is development?