Raiders get PI call to beat Dallas but don’t today on a more egregious non call

[boysbeyond4ever]

But these judgement calls will always be questioned. Has always been a part of the game..

But is it a good or healthy part of the game

Perhaps we should review every call just like we review every score , turnover, etc.

Perhaps the League should re-visit pass interference and modify or simplify the rule so that officials find it easier to call it more consistently and thus correctlty rather than by whatever whims drive the officials on a give gameday/night.

 

[Cowboy4ever]

I certainly thought it was a more obvious call to make.

But these judgement calls will always be questioned. Has always been a part of the game. Perhaps we should review every call just like we review every score , turnover, etc.

No I don't think that is the answer but there are what 6-7 officials on the field. Nothing prevents them from discussing it and not just saying well, it was thrown, we don't want to look bad so we will let it stand even though 5 of us didn't see it that way. I mean just the week before or something, they used the jumbo tron to throw a penality against the cowboys...the ref in the box could have said something as well. I just want some consistency in the ref department.

 

[RonnieT24]

I certainly thought it was a more obvious call to make.

But these judgement calls will always be questioned. Has always been a part of the game. Perhaps we should review every call just like we review every score , turnover, etc.

All any of us wants is consistency. If it's flag on me then it's a flag on you. If it's a flag in the first quarter then it's a flag in the fourth.. Guys just want to know going in what set of rules they are going to have to play by. There is no excuse for the whole "this crews throws more flags" thing. These guys go to training, go to camps, attend conferences.. so they all should be looking at/for the same things. Yet this crap keeps popping up where identical plays seem to be called differently based on the refs, the home team sometimes even the player. I'm sorry but that stinks.. and it really makes the games unwatchable sometimes..

 

[nightrain]

So then why call it on Thanksgiving?

Again, this is the crux of the problem. If you officiate consistently every call is right. If you throw the flag every time, fine. If you keep it in your pocket every time, fine. It's consistent

The problem is when you call it inconsistently play to play or game to game. If it is called inconsistently then there is no right call, not only by the officials but for the players to base their actions around so they are not penalties. The players don't know the rules well enough because the NFL apparently doesn't educate them on them and apparently doesn't have its referees explain how they are going to govern play to players pre-game.on a given gameday.

If that was pass interference in the end zone on Anthony Brown on Thanksgiving that absolutely pass interference yesterday.. Otherwise both calls were wrong. I could live with neither flag being thrown, or both flags being thrown. No football fan anywhere for any team should be willing to accept one being thrown and the other not as good officiating.

Because some officials need to be shown the door to pursue other careers. I would get rid of them all and let technology do the work.

 

[aikemirv]

All the Cowboys had to do was hold the Raiders to 30 points in regulation. Washington held them to 15.

I may be wrong but I think 4 drives were extended on 3rd down with interference calls!

 

[Ranched]

Karma didn't wait did it Raiders.

 

[glimmerman]

Here is the problem. This happens on most plays. The refs usually let them play. On thanksgiving they or that ref decided to call it 4 times in a short amount of time when the other cb likely was doing it also. So sorry but it looked sketchy as heck to me and many of us. I saw Brown do it in the saints game and it wasn’t called. These calls are left up the refs and they don’t call it the same across the board. Someone could be holding worse on the other side and it not get called..

 

[aikemirv]

Technically that is a PI. Hands on the hips or body -- not a PI. Holding the jersey while the ball is not in the air (holding). Holding the jersey while the ball is in the air (PI).

What Brown did on Thanksgiving Day that drew a PI that setup the Raiders' winning field goal wasn't one. Being close to the receiver so your body is on him (incidental contact) is not PI. He even held up his arms so he would be called for it yet he still was. He didn't grab nor pull the receiver's jersey nor lay his hands on the receiver's body.

That the defender turns his head so it is not a PI is just a lame excuse that has no real substantiation in the rule book.

The refs are in the least inconsistent and sometimes bad at "interpreting" the rules. At the most, they are egregiously mal-intentioned with their bias.

I don't care that the refs didn't call the PI on Washington. It's better for refs not to interfere on ticky-tack or dubious calls when the game is on the line. It's when they interfere on dubious calls at crucial points in the game and they are inconsistent in doing so, it makes them look like they have a hand in the game.

Best post of the thread.

 

[aikemirv]

Two wrongs don't make a right, though.

I would bet my Christmas goose the receiver wasn't impacted at all by the jersey grab.

I do agree that the inconsistency is a real problem.

You don't have a Christmas Goose ! I want a picture!

 

[Diehardblues]

All any of us wants is consistency. If it's flag on me then it's a flag on you. If it's a flag in the first quarter then it's a flag in the fourth.. Guys just want to know going in what set of rules they are going to have to play by. There is no excuse for the whole "this crews throws more flags" thing. These guys go to training, go to camps, attend conferences.. so they all should be looking at/for the same things. Yet this crap keeps popping up where identical plays seem to be called differently based on the refs, the home team sometimes even the player. I'm sorry but that stinks.. and it really makes the games unwatchable sometimes..

We’re never going to get consistency with so many different officials in so many different situations making judgement calls. Shoot , we can’t even get all fans to agree after we watch the replays time and time again.

Unfortunately this has always been a part of the game like calling balls and strikes. Officiating has always been inconsistent and judgemental.

It was called more into question when Instant Replay in TV begun exposing bad calls that the league eventually implemented reviews. And why this will probably be the natural progression where some penalties will be reviewable.

 

[Diehardblues]

Because some officials need to be shown the door to pursue other careers. I would get rid of them all and let technology do the work.

We could always stop showing Instant Replay.

 

[Cowfan75]

If you think that's a penalty, wait until No-Name defenders are clinging to Cooper and Lamb for dear life all day...refs will be "distracted".

 

[DripTooHard]

His head was turned and he made a play on the ball.

And the jersey found his hand by mistake!

 

[Canada180]

If thats not PI. at what point is a ref supposed to call grabbing the jersey.

I need to watch again but it seemed to affect the runners progression somewhat.

After what ive seen over the last few weeks, and way back in the Vikes/ Saints playoff game , I have little faith in the refs

 

[morat1959]

Excuses, excuses…excuses! Fans who always cry about the officiating are total loses.

 

[DripTooHard]

Not turning your head is not a penality. There is no face guarding in the NFL. As long as Brown doesn't play through the receiver, there is no requirement to turn his head. He didn't touch the WR - the WR jumped into him and grabbed him.. it was not PI. It was a severely bad call, especially at that point in the game. The one yesterday in the Raiders game, was by defination PI and it wasn't called. IMO, neither of them should have been called and this is what is so frustrating about the Refs - they call when they want and don't when they don't want to.

But dinner was ready yo, and the refs need to eat too. Need to end the game and get home.

 

[boysbeyond4ever]

We’re never going to get consistency with so many different officials in so many different situations making judgement calls. Shoot , we can’t even get all fans to agree after we watch the replays time and time again.

See this is BS. If you have full-time (or even seasonal full-time) officials who in fact do spend the week or even parts of the week reviewing replays and reviewing rules and how they are meant to be interpreted and applied, and even having some sort of consequence for continuously incompetent of inconsistent - it's 'their job, after all, you can get better more competent and consistent officiating that has less impact on game outcomes

this has always been a part of the game like calling balls and strikes. Officiating has always been inconsistent and judgemental.

So you must be cool when a veteran pitcher for the other team gets strike calls well outside the strike zone, and the kid pitching for your team can't get a strike called even on the black? Sure you do.........
.
In fairness you were correct once upon a time, and still are in baseball, but you're dealing with 200-250 different pitches a game there officated by one home plate umpire that game. That's not the case in football about 130 plays a game only 60-70% of them passes only a fifth -or less - of those the kind of pass we saw yesterday or on 3 of the 4 PI calls they did make last week on Anthony Brown. So these refs shouldn't be reduced to judgment calls or inconsistent interpretations of the Rule when they are called on maybe 10 times a game to do so, and don't forget three or four of those deep balls can get caught and a couple of others be simply uncatchable or thrown away. There aren't enough of these instances for such inconsistency and incompetency based on subjective judgment to be an acceptable standard any longer.

The NFL can either revisit the rule to make it easier to apply more competently and consistently or again employ officials full-time so yes, they can study and review their own and other officials' calls in the same instances to improve their own competence and consistency while other officials tasked in that role (field judge or side judge) are doing the same.

It was called more into question when Instant Replay in TV begun exposing bad calls that the league eventually implemented reviews. And why this will probably be the natural progression where some penalties will be reviewable.

Absolutely right about the role of better live and slo-mo television cameras in this. but making it so the games last another 30-60 minutes potentially isn't the answer. Besides we all saw how the challenging PI calls worked already. No, the NFL and its fans are better off with changing the rule to make it easier to get it right and consitently right, or having full-time officials who have the real time opportunity and frankly motivation to work at getting their job right.

 

[CowboyRoy]

Hurts the Boys twice..

Browns PI was a heck of a lot worse then a little jersey tug. Although not doubt that was a PI and they missed it.

 

[Diehardblues]

See this is BS. If you have full-time (or even seasonal full-time) officials who in fact do spend the week or even parts of the week reviewing replays and reviewing rules and how they are meant to be interpreted and applied, and even having some sort of consequence for continuously incompetent of inconsistent - it's 'their job, after all, you can get better more competent and consistent officiating that has less impact on game outcomes



So you must be cool when a veteran pitcher for the other team gets strike calls well outside the strike zone, and the kid pitching for your team can't get a strike called even on the black? Sure you do.........
.
In fairness you were correct once upon a time, and still are in baseball, but you're dealing with 200-250 different pitches a game there officated by one home plate umpire that game. That's not the case in football about 130 plays a game only 60-70% of them passes only a fifth -or less - of those the kind of pass we saw yesterday or on 3 of the 4 PI calls they did make last week on Anthony Brown. So these refs shouldn't be reduced to judgment calls or inconsistent interpretations of the Rule when they are called on maybe 10 times a game to do so, and don't forget three or four of those deep balls can get caught and a couple of others be simply uncatchable or thrown away. There aren't enough of these instances for such inconsistency and incompetency based on subjective judgment to be an acceptable standard any longer.

The NFL can either revisit the rule to make it easier to apply more competently and consistently or again employ officials full-time so yes, they can study and review their own and other officials' calls in the same instances to improve their own competence and consistency while other officials tasked in that role (field judge or side judge) are doing the same.




Absolutely right about the role of better live and slo-mo television cameras in this. but making it so the games last another 30-60 minutes potentially isn't the answer. Besides we all saw how the challenging PI calls worked already. No, the NFL and its fans are better off with changing the rule to make it easier to get it right and consitently right, or having full-time officials who have the real time opportunity and frankly motivation to work at getting their job right.

You can’t fix the human element and individual judgement.

Inconsistent, questionable and poor officiating has always been part of the game.

I guess fans aren’t old enough to recall the game before we had Instant Replay?

Fans want perfection like every TD and catch being absolute. The game just wasn’t intended to be as such.

 

[bsbellomy]

Once you pull the jersey nothing else after that matters

I don't think every tug of the jersey is called or there would be 10x the amount of PI. It wasn't egregious, he still had a chance to make a catch. Also it gets frustrating to me to see QBs throw up prayer balls hoping for PI.