RB debate continues, R Rice vs. Felix Jones

[Woods]

Interesting you say this. I wonder what the write-up was from the huddlereport on Julius when he came out?

Not a Julius fan... but you never know what you get until they play in the NFL.

Funny you should ask . . . .

Julius Jones RB Notre Dame

Strengths
Julius is a lot stronger runner then he looks. He catches the ball well and has good special teams potential. He has decent hands and quick feet. He has good mental strength and can take a hit. Julius runs well between the tackles and has enough speed to turn the corner.

Needs to Improve
His work ethic has improved and his priorities on and off the field seem to be in order. He must work on his running back skills: his vision, lateral movement in the hole, setting up his blocks, catching the ball and blocking. That's about it. Not much, right? Julius has a lot of work to do.

Bottom Line
Julius is still developing, but every time I see him, he gets better and better. He reminds me a little bit of Brian Westbrook of the Eagles. You can see the talent and the lack of development. If you pick him, cross your fingers and hope he will have the work ethic to continue to get better. He could become an important part of your offense, but for me, I think that he is a 2nd day pick because of the work ethic question. To me, academically ineligible means a lot when you are getting something for free (scholarship) and you don't bother to appreciate it.

Drew Boylhart

 

[ctrous25]

This guy really, really likes Ray Rice. Don't get me wrong, I like him too...but "doesn't need to improve anything"? I highly doubt that.

I'd be happy with Jones, Johnson, Rice, etc. I think there are 6-7 backs in this draft that would be an immediate upgrade over Julius.

I wonder if it was rays mom that wrote that report on him? Whoever wrote that is on alot of drugs!! Doesnt need to improve on anything? give me a break! I have seen him play alot of games because I live in New York State,(which I am not proud of living here but anyways..) and hes not that fast for one and he is not a great receiver outta the backfield either. Ill take felix,but id rather have chris johnson especially when he runs a sub 4.3 at the combines

 

[btcutter]

You don't use a 1st pick on a "complimentary" back. You get those in the 3rd or 4th. Use ours to pick up Slaton if you want.

I think Rice is a superior RB to Jones and I agree RB isn't about pure speed (we should know that with Tyson Thompson). Speed is sexy but that's not pure running. RB is about vision, shiftiness, setting up block/reading block to pick up the maximum amt of yds. Rice is no Emmitt until he proves it but Rice is proven over the course of 2 yrs while being the center of the opposing D. That's the RB I WANT. Someone who rises upto the challenge.

If he would only turn out to be like Thurman Thomas, we would be too happy to have him.

Question is.........will he last to our pick in 2nd round.........I think not. Either move down slightly and pick him up in early 2nd or if the coaches feels he's that good.......DON'T DICK around and use the #29 pick on him......you can pick a lot worse player than Rice at end of the 1st round.

 

[tyke1doe]

This guy really, really likes Ray Rice. Don't get me wrong, I like him too...but "doesn't need to improve anything"? I highly doubt that.

I noticed that too. He has no negatives for Ray Rice, which is a little too good to be true.

I also noticed he said people questioned whether Emmitt Smith carried too much in college. Emmitt left after his junior year. He didn't have a lot of wear and tear on his tires.

I wonder with the depth at running back, we won't draft two.

Maybe Felix Jones with the second first round and possibly Rice in the fourth?

Players projected high often fall in the draft.

 

[btcutter]

Funny you should ask . . . .

Julius Jones RB Notre Dame

Strengths
Julius is a lot stronger runner then he looks. He catches the ball well and has good special teams potential. He has decent hands and quick feet. He has good mental strength and can take a hit. Julius runs well between the tackles and has enough speed to turn the corner.

Needs to Improve
His work ethic has improved and his priorities on and off the field seem to be in order. He must work on his running back skills: his vision, lateral movement in the hole, setting up his blocks, catching the ball and blocking. That's about it. Not much, right? Julius has a lot of work to do.

Bottom Line
Julius is still developing, but every time I see him, he gets better and better. He reminds me a little bit of Brian Westbrook of the Eagles. You can see the talent and the lack of development. If you pick him, cross your fingers and hope he will have the work ethic to continue to get better. He could become an important part of your offense, but for me, I think that he is a 2nd day pick because of the work ethic question. To me, academically ineligible means a lot when you are getting something for free (scholarship) and you don't bother to appreciate it.

Drew Boylhart

Wow...So far the Drew's been pretty much on the money. I wonder if anyone have checked how accurate he is on .....let say 1st rounders in 2003 or 2004 (how many did he get right or wrong). If he's hitting >70%, we better get JJ a subscription!!!!

I wonder what was his write up on Emmitt Smith....Carpenter.

 

[Woods]

Wow...So far the Drew's been pretty much on the money. I wonder if anyone have checked how accurate he is on .....let say 1st rounders in 2003 or 2004 (how many did he get right or wrong). If he's hitting >70%, we better get JJ a subscription!!!!

I wonder what was his write up on Emmitt Smith....Carpenter.

Thehuddlereport is one of the top 2-3 in terms of accuracy. I think someone posted this a week or two ago.

 

[tomson75]

He doesn't seem to have break-away speed. But he does have a 90 yard TD run this year, and that was against Ball State.

The difference though is he seems to be incredibly quick in the first two lines of defense. He moves really well in traffic, and maintains his balance. He seems to have really good vision and patience, something lacking in Julius Jones.

The point is, I don't know if this is really a change-up back for Marion. He seems to be more shifty, but not that type of guy who is a change-up back.

That's a pretty dead on assessment. I don't think he's really a "change up back either, but he's a damn good runner either way. If Barber went down, he'd be the #1 back in this draft that I'd want to have drafted in the april before.

What I'd be looking for in a RB behind MBIII is a couple of things,

1. In case MBIII got injured, is the back-up capable of starting?

2. Can our offense still run all the plays and function smoothly when MBIII is resting on the bench? Can the guy get the tough yards, or are the drives going to stall?

Ray Rice can do this IMO. Some of the other, flashier backs in this draft are suspect here.

Interesting you say this. I wonder what the write-up was from the huddlereport on Julius when he came out?

Not a Julius fan... but you never know what you get until they play in the NFL.

Ask and you shall receive....

Funny you should ask . . . .

Julius Jones RB Notre Dame

Strengths
Julius is a lot stronger runner then he looks. He catches the ball well and has good special teams potential. He has decent hands and quick feet. He has good mental strength and can take a hit. Julius runs well between the tackles and has enough speed to turn the corner.

Needs to Improve
His work ethic has improved and his priorities on and off the field seem to be in order. He must work on his running back skills: his vision, lateral movement in the hole, setting up his blocks, catching the ball and blocking. That's about it. Not much, right? Julius has a lot of work to do.

Bottom Line
Julius is still developing, but every time I see him, he gets better and better. He reminds me a little bit of Brian Westbrook of the Eagles. You can see the talent and the lack of development. If you pick him, cross your fingers and hope he will have the work ethic to continue to get better. He could become an important part of your offense, but for me, I think that he is a 2nd day pick because of the work ethic question. To me, academically ineligible means a lot when you are getting something for free (scholarship) and you don't bother to appreciate it.

Drew Boylhart

Thanks Woods, I think he was pretty dead on here. Too bad that strength didn't translate into broken tackles.

I wonder if it was rays mom that wrote that report on him? Whoever wrote that is on alot of drugs!! Doesnt need to improve on anything? give me a break! I have seen him play alot of games because I live in New York State,(which I am not proud of living here but anyways..) and hes not that fast for one and he is not a great receiver outta the backfield either. Ill take felix,but id rather have chris johnson especially when he runs a sub 4.3 at the combines

Chris Johnson is the sexy back in this draft IMO (see sexy 2nd round pick below). His speed is unreal. He's definitely more of a gamble though. Needs to develop some ball handling skills, and be more patient.

 

[tomson75]

I noticed that too. He has no negatives for Ray Rice, which is a little too good to be true.

I also noticed he said people questioned whether Emmitt Smith carried too much in college. Emmitt left after his junior year. He didn't have a lot of wear and tear on his tires.

I wonder with the depth at running back, we won't draft two.

Maybe Felix Jones with the second first round and possibly Rice in the fourth?

Wouldn't that be dreamy! Seriously.

Players projected high often fall in the draft.

Especially RB's and QB's as of late.

...at this point though, I'm hoping it's the CB's that start falling more so than the RB's.

 

[khiladi]

Chris Johnson is the sexy back in this draft IMO (see sexy 2nd round pick below). His speed is unreal. He's definitely more of a gamble though. Needs to develop some ball handling skills, and be more patient.

As a running back, but he also has the strength of possibly having a Devon Hester type impact as a returner based upon that speed...

 

[peplaw06]

Julius Jones RB Notre Dame

Strengths
Julius is a lot stronger runner then he looks. He catches the ball well and has good special teams potential. He has decent hands and quick feet. He has good mental strength and can take a hit. Julius runs well between the tackles and has enough speed to turn the corner.

Needs to Improve
His work ethic has improved and his priorities on and off the field seem to be in order. He must work on his running back skills: his vision, lateral movement in the hole, setting up his blocks, catching the ball and blocking. That's about it. Not much, right? Julius has a lot of work to do.

Bottom Line
Julius is still developing, but every time I see him, he gets better and better. He reminds me a little bit of Brian Westbrook of the Eagles. You can see the talent and the lack of development. If you pick him, cross your fingers and hope he will have the work ethic to continue to get better. He could become an important part of your offense, but for me, I think that he is a 2nd day pick because of the work ethic question. To me, academically ineligible means a lot when you are getting something for free (scholarship) and you don't bother to appreciate it.

Drew Boylhart

Felix Jones RB Arkansas

NEEDS TO IMPROVE

Felix runs way too upright and does not run strong between the tackles. He was used in a spread offense and is a change-up or systems RB. He does not show me much vision in the hole and right now, at the college level, he just out-runs everybody. Felix’s style of upright running lends itself to having a lot of injury concerns at the next level. Also, he is not a strong blocker. If he wants to be on the field in the NFL, he has to learn to block, read defenses and pick up the blitz. Right now, he is nowhere near ready for that assignment.

TALENT BOARD ROUND 2

I am not as high as most people are on Felix. In my mind, Felix can impact on special teams and as a change-up back, but he will not impact as a starting “carry the full load of the offense” RB in the NFL. If you want to use him the way Reggie Bush is used, then that makes sense to me; however, Reggie was bigger and much further along in football intelligence than Felix is right now. As a starting RB, I just think Felix will struggle. He is very fast, but he is going to have to learn how to use that speed at the next level to be effective. Today, he does not set up blocks, cut laterally or take the ball strong into the hole. He bounces everything to the outside rather than going through the hole strong and then bounce it to the outside. Felix has not had very many touches at the college level and although he has impacted at that level, he has had the benefit of doing it with fresh legs against opponents that are tired.

Ouch.

They sound similar, except apparently JJ could run well between the tackles at one point. Who knew?

 

[marchetta]

From reading this board, it seems that most think that F Jones would be a great complementary back to MBIII. And I think he would.

But who is the better overall RB?

Wouldn't you draft the best RB available, or do you draft the best complementary RB available?

I would tend to draft the best RB available.

Exactly right. It comes down to do you want the better RB, or do you want the better complement. I would choose the better RB. If MBIII goes down, RR could fill in and the Offensive wouldn't miss a beat. However, FJ would be unable to carry the load as a starter if we lost MBIII, and this team would instantly become 1 dimensional. We need RR. If anyone on this board was offered Emmitt Smith to pair with MBIII we'd jump on it in a heart beat. RR is the closest runner to have all the same attributes as ES since Emmitt entered the draft. RR is just a faster, and a little more agiler runner than Emmitt. He's kind of a cross between Emmitt and B.Sanders. I've been touting this guy for the longest, and Drew Boylhart just confirmed everything I thought I was seeing. I've emailed Drew a couple of times about RR, and posted this analysis in the draft zone, and we are both extremely high on the potential of this guy. He has ALL the attributes that Drew says makes a NFL RB great, which are quickness to the LOS, vision, instincts, and lateral agility. RR is worthy of a top 10 pick, and if he's there in the later part of rd 1 I say get him and don't look back. RR will lead this team to Superbowls for years.

 

[tomson75]

Thehuddlereport is one of the top 2-3 in terms of accuracy. I think someone posted this a week or two ago.

Marchetta? Masomeno? One of them has been posting several of these in the draft zone. Good stuff. Some of the most accurate stuff I've seen after-the-fact.

 

[tomson75]

Exactly right. It comes down to do you want the better RB, or do you want the better complement. I would choose the better RB. If MBIII goes down, RR could fill in and the Offensive wouldn't miss a beat. However, FJ would be unable to carry the load as a starter if we lost MBIII, and this team would instantly become 1 dimensional. We need RR. If anyone on this board was offered Emmitt Smith to pair with MBIII we'd jump on it in a heart beat. RR is the closest runner to have all the same attributes as ES since Emmitt entered the draft. RR is just a faster, and a little more agiler runner than Emmitt. He's kind of a cross between Emmitt and B.Sanders. I've been touting this guy for the longest, and Drew Boylhart just confirmed everything I thought I was seeing. I've emailed Drew and posted this analysis in the draft zone, and we are both extremely high on the potential of this guy. He has ALL the attributes that Drew says makes a NFL RB great, which are quickness to the LOS, vision, instincts, and lateral agility. RR is a top 10 RB, and if he's there in the later part of rd 1 I say get him and don't look back. RR will lead this team to Superbowls for years.

Well, it seems that we all agree then.

 

[Woods]

Exactly right. It comes down to do you want the better RB, or do you want the better complement. I would choose the better RB. If MBIII goes down, RR could fill in and the Offensive wouldn't miss a beat. However, FJ would be unable to carry the load as a starter if we lost MBIII, and this team would instantly become 1 dimensional. We need RR. If anyone on this board was offered Emmitt Smith to pair with MBIII we'd jump on it in a heart beat. RR is the closest runner to have all the same attributes as ES since Emmitt entered the draft. RR is just a faster, and a little more agiler runner than Emmitt. He's kind of a cross between Emmitt and B.Sanders. I've been touting this guy for the longest, and Drew Boylhart just confirmed everything I thought I was seeing. I've emailed Drew a couple of times about RR, and posted this analysis in the draft zone, and we are both extremely high on the potential of this guy. He has ALL the attributes that Drew says makes a NFL RB great, which are quickness to the LOS, vision, instincts, and lateral agility. RR is a top 10 RB, and if he's there in the later part of rd 1 I say get him and don't look back. RR will lead this team to Superbowls for years.

You're forcing me to do a new mock draft . . . . Verson 3.0

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Personally i want the complete guy. i dont like one dimensional a any point. Now granted Duece/Bush and others have shown the thunder and lightning can work but as has been pointed out if thunder goes down lightning has issues.

i look at SD and see LT/Turner paying dividends and me likee. Thunder and Thunder works well too.

 

[tomson75]

Personally i want the complete guy. i dont like one dimensional a any point. Now granted Duece/Bush and others have shown the thunder and lightning can work but as has been pointed out if thunder goes down lightning has issues.

i look at SD and see LT/Turner paying dividends and me likee. Thunder and Thunder works well too.

That's actually a very good point. That would be a very similar situation to a Barber/Rice backfield.

 

[Woods]

That's actually a very good point. That would be a very similar situation to a Barber/Rice backfield.

Could you imagine pairing these guys up with O Schmitt at FB?

 

[tomson75]

Could you imagine pairing these guys up with O Schmitt at FB?

Gross things just happened in my pants.














Not really. I swear.

 

[khiladi]

I think we are also forgetting a serious dimension here and that is the return of Hudson Houck.

Arunner liker Ray Rice, who is very similar to Emmitt in style would probably be the perfect fit here considering the size of our line and the schemes of Hudson Houck.

 

[Woods]

I think we are also forgetting a serious dimension here and that is the return of Hudson Houck.

Arunner liker Ray Rice, who is very similar to Emmitt in style would probably be the perfect fit here considering the size of our line and the schemes of Hudson Houck.

That's an excellent point.

Our OL scheme will probably be a good fit for this type of RB (RR).