RB debate continues, R Rice vs. Felix Jones

[marchetta]

We need someone to compliment MBIII and someone to be a 3rd down back, also Chris Johnson is a great return man.. Rice aint gonna be a return man in the NFL

No, but he's going to be scoring a lot of points out of the backfield. Ask yourself this, if MBIII goes down, are you comfortable with CJ being your starting RB? I don't need a return man as much as I need a RB that can carry the load in case of injury. We're not going to miss the playoffs/superbowl because we don't have a threat returning KOs. But, if MBIII goes down, and we don't have a RB that can step in and start, we'll be sitting at home, again, wondering what could have been.

 

[Portland Fanatic]

I wrote Drew about Mendenhall and Drew confirmed some of the things that I thought I was seeing. I called Mendenhall a Julius Jones clone, because they ran exactly alike, except Mendenhall is a lot bigger. I couldn't put my finger on why I thought this until Drew told me Mendenhall is overrated because he lacks lateral agility (then the light went off!). He can't make lateral adjustments at the LOS, and he will be a run into the pile runner at the next level. I think all of us have had our fill of a run into the pile runner, that can't make lateral adjustments haven't we (rhetorical)? Furthermore, Drew noted that he thinks Mendenhall is going to have a great deal of trouble learning NFL offenses. I didn't ask him to expand on this observation, but he seemed to be hinting at a lack of football IQ or maybe a learning disability.

I did not see that like I do with JJ...I doubt I have watched him as much as many others, but I saw him explode through holes when he saw it. Now if he has football IQ issues, then that would certainly scare me off. If he is unable to adapt to an NFL offense he must have smarts, or Romo gets nailed. That right there does make me apprehensive.

 

[MichaelWinicki]

I like Rice. Almost as much as I like Felix Jones.

But it wouldn't kill me if we waited until round 2 or 3 to draft a back either. The fact is that whoever it is probably is not going to get a lot of touches so to spend a 1st when we're going to be paying big-bucks to Barber probably doesn't make the most sense.

 

[zrinkill]

I will take Ray or Felix and be a happy.

 

[marchetta]

I did not see that like I do with JJ...I doubt I have watched him as much as many others, but I saw him explode through holes when he saw it. Now if he has football IQ issues, then that would certainly scare me off. If he is unable to adapt to an NFL offense he must have smarts, or Romo gets nailed. That right there does make me apprehensive.

You're seeing the same thing that initially turned me on (no homo) about Mendenhall. He can exploded through a hole and take it to the house (sound familiar). He's so big and can run so fast that it was exciting imagining him with a star on his helmet. However, go back, as I did, and watch some clips of him closely and you'll see that when the hole isn't there he just runs into the pile. Then go back and watch how MBIII does when the hole isn't there (it's happened a lot this year), and watch how MBIII can either bounce it off tackle, or just step laterally and find another hole (or make his own). Mendenhall can't do this. If the hole is there, then great he's off to the races (just like JJ), but if the hole isn't there he's just going to run into the pile and go down (just like JJ). If you find a clip of Mendenhall having to adjust laterally at the LOS because of a blocked hole, just look at his shoulders and his feet. A lateral move is most effective when keeping your shoulders parallel to the LOS and "sliding" down the LOS to the soft spot. Mendenhall can't do this. He has to take steps to stop his momentum, then turn his shoulders perpendicular to the LOS, then run. In the NFL you can't do this. Just watch some of RR's vids. You'll see him slide up and down the LOS just like an ice skater. He does it effortlessly w/o wasting any motion or loosing momentum. It's like he's on ice skates. This is a key attribute that makes RBs successful in the NFL. A RB needs instincts to know where the hole is going to develop even when it's not there, the vision to see the hole, the lateral agility to make adjustments at the LOS to get to the hole, and the quickness to get through it before it closes. ALL these things RR can do, and he does them effortlessly. I hope I don't sound condescending, but when you watch a RB run, don't just watch how many yards he gets or how fast he is. Watch for vision, instincts, lateral agility, and speed to the LOS. This is all that matters. Now if you can package that up with intellience, character, toughness, leadership, and a strong work ethic then you have a potential franchise RB. BTW, RR has everything I just mentioned.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

No, but he's going to be scoring a lot of points out of the backfield. Ask yourself this, if MBIII goes down, are you comfortable with CJ being your starting RB? I don't need a return man as much as I need a RB that can carry the load in case of injury. We're not going to miss the playoffs/superbowl because we don't have a threat returning KOs. But, if MBIII goes down, and we don't have a RB that can step in and start, we'll be sitting at home, again, wondering what could have been.

that's a good reason to take a back...in the 5th round

I hope we maximize our 1st day picks, not look at them solely for in-case scenarios, I heard Rice is a back who needs carries in order to be effective, he's not going to get more than 5-10 a game w/ Barber the starter

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I honestly have nothing against Rice, I think he's a very nice back. But if I had my pick of the litter, so to speak, I'd rather get a faster guy like a Jones, Johnson, or even Slaton.

Rice should be a real nice RB though.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

that's a good reason to take a back...in the 5th round

I hope we maximize our 1st day picks, not look at them solely for in-case scenarios, I heard Rice is a back who needs carries in order to be effective, he's not going to get more than 5-10 a game w/ Barber the starter

I think this is a misnomer. When they say the guy needs 15+ carries i think that means he has stamina and a worn out defense to really shine in the second half. If Barber is helping wear the defense out and hes gotten some carries already I dont see why he cannot be effective.

Barber is one of the most punishing guys in the league. Pair him with another punisher and look out. Keep both guys healthy and kill front 7s with our size and power.

Too bad Garrett is the playcaller.

 

[This is Our Year]

My High School team played against Ray Rice when I was in HS. Not that this adds anything to the thread; but it would be cool if a guy played on the Cowboys that I saw play a lot a few years ago.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

Yeah the needs 20+ carries, while it holds merit if he had to start, doesn't hold quite the same when you think about the fact that Barber will be helping to wear out a defense.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

I think this is a misnomer. When they say the guy needs 15+ carries i think that means he has stamina and a worn out defense to really shine in the second half. If Barber is helping wear the defense out and hes gotten some carries already I dont see why he cannot be effective.

it actually means a back needs 15+ carries in order to get into a rhythm, so if they don't, they end up looking like Julius, ineffective if they don't, the poster Cobra said Ray Rice is one of those backs, if that's true, it wouldn't be a good fit for us, since we already have Barber, who's good for 20-23 carries a game

Barber is one of the most punishing guys in the league. Pair him with another punisher and look out. Keep both guys healthy and kill front 7s with our size and power.

Too bad Garrett is the playcaller.

w/ how our O is set up, we don't need 2 punishers, we just need 1 guy to handle the bulk of the carries, and another guy to keep him fresh

if we can get a guy to spell Barber, and also serve as a change-of-pace, we should, but if we choose to bring in another natural runner, it's gonna have to be a guy who doesn't need that many carries to get into a rhythm

you brought up Michael Turner and LT, and Turner doesn't need carries to get into a rhythm, if that's the kind of back we want, you can find them later on in the draft

 

[AsthmaField]

I think Rice is going to be a super back in the NFL. I know he may need 15+ carries and that he's more like Barber than Felix Jones is... but I really think that guy is going to be a very, very good back.

I would be A. OK with us drafting that guy. He's going to move the chains a lot in the NFL.

$0.02

 

[Nexx]

hey if ray rice turns out to be another MJD, I can live with that.

drew/taylor = rice/barber?

 

[Rampage]

hey if ray rice turns out to be another MJD, I can live with that.

drew/taylor = rice/barber?

ray rice doesn't have half the speed jones-drew does. he's also too slow to return kickoffs. Rice is the better back but jones has the breakaway speed(boy does that sound familiar ) i say we stay away from any rb with the last name jones from here on out.

 

[yesfan]

Barber and Rice sounds nice Would really love to see these guys
as our backfield.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

it actually means a back needs 15+ carries in order to get into a rhythm, so if they don't, they end up looking like Julius, ineffective if they don't, the poster Cobra said Ray Rice is one of those backs, if that's true, it wouldn't be a good fit for us, since we already have Barber, who's good for 20-23 carries a game



w/ how our O is set up, we don't need 2 punishers, we just need 1 guy to handle the bulk of the carries, and another guy to keep him fresh

if we can get a guy to spell Barber, and also serve as a change-of-pace, we should, but if we choose to bring in another natural runner, it's gonna have to be a guy who doesn't need that many carries to get into a rhythm

you brought up Michael Turner and LT, and Turner doesn't need carries to get into a rhythm, if that's the kind of back we want, you can find them later on in the draft

Cobra has some good insight but if a guy cannot get into a 'rhythm' after a few carries then thats pretty sad. Typically the guys that get these labels are punishers that require a worn out defense becaseu they have stamina and the defense is tired and sore.

I dont buy for a minute the rythm thing. if he cannot time his cuts until seeing a defense for 2 hours and 15 carries then no thanks. i will look up his splits though.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Ray Rice Splits by quarter

1st
122 657 5.39 7

2nd
96 414 4.31 9

3rd
99 698 7.05 4

4th
63 243 3.86 4



As you can see the 1st and 3rd are his best quarters so he starts off strong in each half and then fades. Most of his TDs occur in the first half as well.

You can put the 15+ carries theory to bed however as that would mean the 4th is his best quarter and that his first half esp first quarter stats would be awful. This is not the case. Now the fourth quarter stats are disconcerting.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

good stuff, looks like he would be effective w/ the 8/10 carries that he would get behind Barber

 

[speedkilz88]

So where are the highlight videos? I'm for the best rb possible over best compliment because I think the best rb would be the best compliment to Barber, I don't know if thats Rice or not though.

 

[Gaede]

Rice is actually my favourite player in the draft. I just like the way he runs.