Re-evaluating Jimmy Johnson

[Runwildboys]

I know I'm a minority of this but I disagree with those who think we would have another Super Bowl had Jimmy stayed. I don't fans realize how bad Jerry and Jimmy's partnership/relationship or whatever you wanna call it, had deteriorated. It's obvious a lot of issues/emotions between the two happen behind closed doors but they kept sweeping under the rub. Orlando was just the boiling point where it all can to a head. Think about the dynamics of what happened. Jimmy openly dishing Jerry in the presence of several people, Jerry walks up and Jimmy apparently made no effort to hide his hate or play the political game. With his feelings being that strong about Jerry, how in hell would they have made it through an entire season without clawing and fighting?

In other words, IMO the impact of their relationship ( in a bad way ) would have been too much distraction for another Super Bowl run. Kinda like a married couple sweeping major issues under the rub for the sake of kids but at some point, it reaches a head and you know it's over.

That's a valid point. I guess we all (those who answered that we think there'd be a fourth SB) based our opinions on the premise that the one incident was the reason for the rift. That was just the catalyst for the inevitable divorce.

 

[Alexander]

Exactly, I highly doubt Dallas would have drafted as bad as they did if Jimmy didn't leave. 94 draft was all Larry Allen an absolutely nothing else. 95 draft was atrocious. Same in 96 with only Godfrey being decent. Same in 97 with only Coakley and maybe a serviceable Lefleur. 4 straight years of horrible drafting.

The drafting got worse because Jerry Jones installed his stooges in the scouting department. People like John Wooten and Bob Ackles were out, replaced by Lacewell and even Garrett’s father got more influence.

 

[glimmerman]

This is really sad . His style didn’t work. This is the most laughable depiction I have ever seen. Our talent was so far superior only a lack of leadership could derail it. We won despite the debacle.

This is the most blatant trolling I’ve seen in a long time . Right out of a Skippy Bayless or Stephen A disgusting show.

I think the veteran leadership is one of the reasons they got another ring. Switzer didn’t bring much to the table.

 

[Flamma]

I used to be one of those fans who believe that had Jimmy stayed we would have won more Super Bowls.

Not anymore.

I now realize that things ended the way they did because it couldn't have gone any other way. Jimmy Johnson's act as a tough-minded psych genius was getting old and Jimmy recognized it. He figured it was better to go out on top vs. sticking around for the downside. Much easier to build a young, fast team and to do it from the perspective as the most recent best college football coach with the most cutting edge knowledge of the young players of that era. Much more difficult to maintain a team that had already peaked, was already starting to lose players and to babysit a team full of spoiled superstars.

In fact, I'm actually more impressed with what Barry Switzer did. There may have been no other coach that could have stepped into that situation and keep it together long enough to win another championship.

Your thoughts?

Wherever I've lived there would always be this house that would have a pristine lawn. It was perfect every year. Then they sell the house. The lawn is ok for a few more years, but it is noticeably deteriorating. That's Barry Switzer.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

That's a valid point. I guess we all (those who answered that we think there'd be a fourth SB) based our opinions on the premise that the one incident was the reason for the rift. That was just the catalyst for the inevitable divorce.

+1......Way too much at stake for a silly toast to break up. The emotions were strong and I don't mean in a good way. Jimmy dishing Jerry behind his back and we learn Jerry feeling any 1 of 500 coaches could have coached the team and had the same results. This partnership reached a head. It was just a matter of time ........hell, notice 20+ years later, Jimmy is still waiting to get into ROH.

So again, Jimmy staying on would not have produced a 3rd, maybe 4 Super Bowl(s) IMO.


What was the conflict between Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson?
Johnson felt that Jones wanted too much credit for the success of the Cowboys during his five-year stint with the organization. Jones, on the other hand, believed that Johnson was disloyal to him for his unwillingness to give said credit.Jul 22, 2021

 

[Runwildboys]

+1......Way too much at stake for a silly toast to break up. The emotions were strong and I don't mean in a good way. Jimmy dishing Jerry behind his back and we learn Jerry feeling any 1 of 500 coaches could have coached the team and had the same results. This partnership reached a head. It was just a matter of time ........hell, notice 20+ years later, Jimmy is still waiting to get into ROH.

So again, Jimmy staying on would not have produced a 3rd, maybe 4 Super Bowl(s) IMO.


What was the conflict between Jerry Jones and Jimmy Johnson?
Johnson felt that Jones wanted too much credit for the success of the Cowboys during his five-year stint with the organization. Jones, on the other hand, believed that Johnson was disloyal to him for his unwillingness to give said credit.Jul 22, 2021

On the other hand, since it's been established that Jimmy had basically decided he'd be leaving soon anyway, it's possible he sabotaged the relationship, whether intentionally or subconsciously, and had he not been set on the idea of a short term gig, maybe the relationship would've been more amicable.

 

[GINeric]

Jimmy built the team assembled the coaches, trained the players, created a winning culture , and rode that to 2 SB's in a row!
then switzer all he had to do was ride that championship horse, which is much easier that building all that.

Same thing for gruden and his TB superbowl, he didnt build that team and it was in the nfc conf champ game the year before and barely lost.
The real credit there goes to dungy not gruden.

I'll give you credit for Jimmy assembling coaches and training the players.... but Jimmy didn't build anything by himself, Jerry was the GM so they BUILT the team together.

If Jimmy was capable of doing all that by himself, he would have built a three time superbowl championship team in Miami, but how'd that work out??

They didn't even get to ONE Superbowl. With that said, Jimmy and Jerry did a great job building a superbowl teamTOGETHER and Switzer did a great job stepping in and winning one on his watch.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

On the other hand, since it's been established that Jimmy had basically decided he'd be leaving soon anyway, it's possible he sabotaged the relationship, whether intentionally or subconsciously, and had he not been set on the idea of a short term gig, maybe the relationship would've been more amicable.

Keep in mind Jimmy admitted he put all his cards on table to coach this team, even giving up his family. He was a 150% in......so if he had already reached the point of leaving "soon", what does that tell you? Burnout, fed up, and apparently could no longer hide his frustration/hate of Jerry. To think this would not have impacted another SB run?

 

[tyke1doe]

And Jimmy leaving will always be on Jethro’s hand . You bow down to a back to back HC not buck heads with him. Our franchise has never fully recovered. It’s been a dysfunctional mess ever since .

Sorry, but that's not how Alpha Males work, especially if one of those Alpha Males is your boss.
Jerry wasn't going to take a public insult from Jimmy in front of all of the people JERRY IS PAYING!
Uh, heck, no!
I don't know any Alpha Male who would have done that. In fact, if he did, he wouldn't be the Alpha Male.

 

[Hawkeye0202]

I'll give you credit for Jimmy assembling coaches and training the players.... but Jimmy didn't build anything by himself, Jerry was the GM so they BUILT the team together.

If Jimmy was capable of doing all that by himself, he would have built a three time superbowl championship team in Miami, but how'd that work out??

They didn't even get to ONE Superbowl. With that said, Jimmy and Jerry did a great job building a superbowl teamTOGETHER and Switzer did a great job stepping in and winning one on his watch.

IMO this clearly proved Jerry famous "any 1 of 500 coaches" statement to be correct. No question the talent was there......think about it, Switzer, who never coached an team, was pulled out of retirement and WON a Super Bowl.

 

[stuckindc]

Egos ruined the 90s team. Owners ego. Jimmy's ego. Players ego grew large too.

If Jerry and Jimmy weren't so head strong about credit I think Jimmy would of still had a short life span here but maybe lasted another 2-3 years.

Barry was a good coach but at the same time he allowed players to lose their edge.

Jimmy got lucky with an idiot Vikings FO and an owner willing at first to allow him to trade their best player and retool.

If Jerry had sat in the owners box and continued to let Jimmy do what he did, he would have had all the credit he needed. Just like Kraft does with Belichek. Barry was a clown. He let those guys do whatever they wanted Held nobody accountable and we saw the result. The 95 championship was won by our talent. People also forget the 49ers got beat in the playoffs so we got a huge break there. They had already smashed us earlier in the season, with a backup QB. As for the Minnesota trade, Jimmy already had Cleveland on the hook to make the same deal.

 

[tyke1doe]

No HC has ever won a SB with another team . It was about the talent Jimmy assembled in Dallas . And it had some success despite the dysfunction after he left . But it would have had more success with him.

You mean no head coach has won a Super Bowl with two different teams, right?
Dick Vermeil, Andy Reid, Bill Parcells, Don Shula and Mike Holmgren are the only coaches who have taken two different teams to the Super Bowl and winning with one of the teams they coached.

 

[Runwildboys]

Keep in mind Jimmy admitted he put all his cards on table to coach this team, even giving up his family. He was a 150% in......so if he had already reached the point of leaving "soon", what does that tell you? Burnout, fed up, and apparently could no longer hide his frustration/hate of Jerry. To think this would not have impacted another SB run?

From what he says in A Football Life, he was never planning on staying in one place for long. It's not that he "reached the point of leaving soon". It was never his intention to do so. He's never stayed anywhere for very long. I'm surprised he's been with Fox as long as he has, to be honest.

 

[Reverend Conehead]

I believe we would have won that NFC Championship against the 49ers in 1994 if Jimmy had stayed, and we would have gone on to beat the Steelers the next year, except by a wider margin. It would have been the first ever 3-peat and 4-peat.

 

[blueblood70]

I used to be one of those fans who believe that had Jimmy stayed we would have won more Super Bowls.

Not anymore.

I now realize that things ended the way they did because it couldn't have gone any other way. Jimmy Johnson's act as a tough-minded psych genius was getting old and Jimmy recognized it. He figured it was better to go out on top vs. sticking around for the downside. Much easier to build a young, fast team and to do it from the perspective as the most recent best college football coach with the most cutting edge knowledge of the young players of that era. Much more difficult to maintain a team that had already peaked, was already starting to lose players and to babysit a team full of spoiled superstars.

In fact, I'm actually more impressed with what Barry Switzer did. There may have been no other coach that could have stepped into that situation and keep it together long enough to win another championship.

Your thoughts?

agreed

also,

regardless of their situation Jimmys like parcels him staying even if things were improved were improbable so those next 2 years with Switzer , im betting would have been about all we could get from Jimmy and then he leaves anyway, these type of coaches get burnout real easy move on for new challenges and highly doubt he would have coached past 1996-97 anyway.

 

[blueblood70]

I believe we would have won that NFC Championship against the 49ers in 1994 if Jimmy had stayed, and we would have gone on to beat the Steelers the next year, except by a wider margin. It would have been the first ever 3-peat and 4-peat.

believing and knowing are two very different things what happened to the chiefs the last 2 years virtually the same team no more SB wins..hmm and that with Brady leaving fhe AFC..are they relative yes, contenders ,yes but SB winners, NOPE..

please dont speculate i say it most likely changed nothing.

 

[GINeric]

IMO this clearly proved Jerry famous "any 1 of 500 coaches" statement to be correct. No question the talent was there......think about it, Switzer, who never coached an team, was pulled out of retirement and WON a Super Bowl.

Alot of people don't understand that Switzer was a great coach in college.... now I know college and NFL football are totally different, but the man knows how to coach.

Its not like he was some guy who was a warehouse manager with pop warner coaching experience.

 

[Runwildboys]

believing and knowing are two very different things what happened to the chiefs the last 2 years virtually the same team no more SB wins..hmm and that with Brady leaving fhe AFC..are they relative yes, contenders ,yes but SB winners, NOPE..

please dont speculate i say it most likely changed nothing.

They almost pulled off the 3peat with Switzer, who was barely acting as a coach, then won the next one with him, still barely acting as a coach. I think it's reasonable to believe that if Jimmy had wanted to stay, they would've won 4 in a row.

 

[Runwildboys]

Alot of people don't understand that Switzer was a great coach in college.... now I know college and NFL football are totally different, but the man knows how to coach.

Its not like he was some guy who was a warehouse manager with pop warner coaching experience.

He knew how to coach, yes. But Troy even states that he was a different guy than he was in college. He didn't have the drive or desire to lead anymore. Troy was very disappointed in the way Switzer coached the Cowboys.

 

[blueblood70]

They almost pulled off the 3peat with Switzer, who was barely acting as a coach, then won the next one with him, still barely acting as a coach. I think it's reasonable to believe that if Jimmy had wanted to stay, they would've won 4 in a row.

Im saying it not ,

i look around the NFL and see many examples on why that's maybe plausible but no way expected nor could have ended up that way.. believe what you want its an opinion and i doubt that scenario happens.