Re-evaluating Jimmy Johnson

[Reverend Conehead]

dont care i still say history happened that way and nothing would have changed it..belive what you like, doesn't make it true..no matter how many fans you talked too.

I respect your opinion. We can agree to disagree.

 

[Creeper]

I think Jimmy was the best coach Jerry ever hired, regardless of his plans to stay or go. Only Jimmy knows for sure what he really wanted back then.

I think Free Agency had as much to do with killing the Cowboys dynasty as anything. Jerry never really figured out how to make that work for the benefit of his team.

One other point, after Jimmy left there were a bunch of years there where it was pretty clear the Cowboys drafting and player acquisition was awful, even during the Parcells years. The Cowboys had some decent teams but never threatened to win a NFC Championship.

 

[tunahelper]

But sure Jimmy could have stopped them from committing 3 turnovers in the first quarter against the 49ers.

I agree Jimmy would have the team prepared and ready to execute. Good coaching matters and Barry was out of his league. It just shows how talented the team was to win despite Switzer.

 

[erod]

I agree Jimmy would have the team prepared and ready to execute. Good coaching matters and Barry was out of his league. It just shows how talented the team was to win despite Switzer.

I was being facetious. Coaching could not have stopped Irvin from fumbling or Troy from throwing those early interceptions. That's just football.

Barry had an impossible job no coach had ever inherited. He handled it right. No players would listen to an otside coach who just showed stepped into a back-to-back champion.

That needed to be Norv Turner, but he had just taken the Washington job.

 

[tyke1doe]

Have you watched Troy Aikman: A Football Life?

Exactly!

Basically Troy said the inmates were running the asylum. And he even was mad at Deion because Deion brought a culture to the Cowboys that was detrimental to the team. Deion could get away "loafing" but the other guys couldn't because they weren't as talented.

I think even Switzer said he wasn't Jimmy Johnson and wasn't going to treat the players like Jimmy did.

Seldom do players and coaches criticize one another publicly. When you get someone who is honest, whether directly or indirectly, you'd better listen because those are the guys who are so frustrated they just can't keep their silence.

Aikman was piping mad, and he expressed himself in that mini-video biography about himself. Interesting television, but I'm glad he agreed to do it because it paints an unmistakable portrait of the Cowboys after Jimmy left.

 

[tyke1doe]

That's the thing about speculative opinions: Your believing what you do doesn't make it true either.

Everyone has their opinions, based on what they feel might have changed the outcome. None of it matters, because we can't see the alternate universe in which it would've played out. This is just for fun.

Some people forget this.

It cracks me up when guys get hostile over opinions we have no way of proving.
I believe we would have won 5 straight had Jimmy remained coach because of our dominance over Green Bay and San Francisco when Jimmy was here, his psychological mastery over those teams (He had George Seifert befuddled and Jerry Rice ready to fight before the 93-94 NFC Championship Game), his insistence upon mistake-free football and his unpredictability on the field ("I want to score!" He says right before Alvin Harper's "catch" in the 92-93 NFC Championship Game).

But ....

It's all speculation. I can no more prove that than another can prove it wouldn't have happened.

I say enjoy the speculation but keep it in context and don't let it make enemies of fans who should be friends and rooting for the same team.

 

[CowboyFrog]

Some people forget this.

It cracks me up when guys get hostile over opinions we have no way of proving.
I believe we would have won 5 straight had Jimmy remained coach because of our dominance over Green Bay and San Francisco when Jimmy was here, his psychological mastery over those teams (He had George Seifert befuddled and Jerry Rice ready to fight before the 93-94 NFC Championship Game), his insistence upon mistake-free football and his unpredictability on the field ("I want to score!" He says right before Alvin Harper's "catch" in the 92-93 NFC Championship Game).

But ....

It's all speculation. I can no more prove that than another can prove it wouldn't have happened.

I say enjoy the speculation but keep it in context and don't let it make enemies of fans who should be friends and rooting for the same team.

For all he did right Jimmy let ego stand in the way of NFL records just like Jerry did....no doubt Jimmy was great but at the end of the day winning was not as important to him as ego...kinda like Jerry.

Could've been great

Reporter :"Jimmy did you hear what Jerry said about the 500 coaches?"
Jimmy: "Yes and dont worry I'll give him a list of which ones I like best after we win another 4 SB's here"

 

[tunahelper]

I was being facetious. Coaching could not have stopped Irvin from fumbling or Troy from throwing those early interceptions. That's just football.

Barry had an impossible job no coach had ever inherited. He handled it right. No players would listen to an otside coach who just showed stepped into a back-to-back champion.

That needed to be Norv Turner, but he had just taken the Washington job.

You recall how Jimmy picked up on Buffalo shuttle pass on TV during SB week? That led to turnovers for Dallas. That is one minor example of how coaching and preparation matters and you bet Jimmy would have made a difference.

 

[tyke1doe]

For all he did right Jimmy let ego stand in the way of NFL records just like Jerry did....no doubt Jimmy was great but at the end of the day winning was not as important to him as ego...kinda like Jerry.

I would say winning another Super Bowl with the Cowboys wasn't as important. Some Alpha Males reach the peak of their accomplishment, get bored and want to chase another dream, reach another accomplishment.

Jerry and Jimmy were the perfect team for a time because Jimmy could deconstruct a bad team and build it into his image. Try as he wanted, he couldn't do that with Miami, in part because Dan Marino was bigger in Miami and in the league than Jimmy realized. Rumors had it Jimmy wanted to trade Dan, but Dan wasn't having it. Neither was Dan going to pull back the reigns on throwing the football, something Aikman willingly did for the sake of the team.

And at that time, finding a great running back was harder than it is now. Nowadays, great running backs or even good ones who can immensely help a team's running game are a dime a dozen.

But, here again, you're talking Alpha Males when we speak of Jimmy and Jerry. And whether people like it or not, it's Jerry's team and aint no Alpha Dog who's paying you money and over whom you are the boss is going to tolerate attitudes like Jimmy's insolence.

They took that team as far as they were going to go with each other. Fortunately, we got three Super Bowl wins.
The Bills got none in four tries, and I didn't hear of any strife between owner and coach. Shrug.

 

[Floatyworm]

I used to be one of those fans who believe that had Jimmy stayed we would have won more Super Bowls.

Not anymore.

I now realize that things ended the way they did because it couldn't have gone any other way. Jimmy Johnson's act as a tough-minded psych genius was getting old and Jimmy recognized it. He figured it was better to go out on top vs. sticking around for the downside. Much easier to build a young, fast team and to do it from the perspective as the most recent best college football coach with the most cutting edge knowledge of the young players of that era. Much more difficult to maintain a team that had already peaked, was already starting to lose players and to babysit a team full of spoiled superstars.

In fact, I'm actually more impressed with what Barry Switzer did. There may have been no other coach that could have stepped into that situation and keep it together long enough to win another championship.

Your thoughts?

You have completely forgotten Jimmy would cut a guy on the spot. We haven't had a guy like that since. You think McCarthy would cut a guy for falling asleep in a meeting? Hell no...Jimmy cut John Roper for taking a nap. IF McCarthy faced that situation....hell he probably gets the guy a pillow. People feared Jimmy...and you need that guy in a locker room. We haven't had that since. Barry got lucky because that 90's team was that talented. And Jerry has been chasing his tail ever since. It's all about the culture now..there is no direction for this team. It's a circus...to make money. And you can feel it the minute you set foot inside that stadium. It's all about putting money inside Jerry's wallet now...not about winning. It's high pressure sells the minute you walk through that gate. It's Kevin Orton...and Cutco knives....buy or die.

 

[tyke1doe]

You have completely forgotten Jimmy would cut a guy on the spot. We haven't had a guy like that since. You think McCarthy would cut a guy for falling asleep in a meeting? Hell no...Jimmy cut John Roper for taking a nap. IF McCarthy faced that situation....hell he probably gets the guy a pillow. People feared Jimmy...and you need that guy in a locker room. We haven't had that since. Barry got lucky because that 90's team was that talented. And Jerry has been chasing his tail ever since. It's all about the culture now..there is no direction for this team. It's a circus...to make money. And you can feel it the minute you set foot inside that stadium. It's all about putting money inside Jerry's wallet now...not about winning. It's high pressure sells the minute you walk through that gate. It's Kevin Orton...and Cutco knives....buy or die.

You're right.
But as Michael Irvin used to say, Jimmy knew who his playmakers were and treated them by a different standard.
In a way, you had to hate it for the unfairness of it all but love it for the honesty of it all.
Truth be told, no one treats everyone the same. It's almost humanly impossible.
Jimmy was just honest about it.
I love the stories Irvin used to tell.
One of them had to do when Erik Williams came to a Super Bowl team meeting late. Previously, Jimmy had said anyone who came late to the meeting would not play in the Super Bowl.
Big E was obviously late to the meeting. As Irvin tells it, the whole team was nervous because they remembered what Jimmy had said but knew Erik Williams was a vital player the team needed to win against the Bills in Super Bowl 28.
Jimmy says, in so many words, "Big E, I'm disappointed in you. blah, blah, blah, more expression of disappointment." Then Jimmy says, "And after the game, we're going to deal with this."
Irvin said the room erupted in cheers and, right then, he knew the Cowboys were going to win the Super Bowl.
Jimmy might have been partial, but he wasn't stupid.

 

[erod]

You recall how Jimmy picked up on Buffalo shuttle pass on TV during SB week? That led to turnovers for Dallas. That is one minor example of how coaching and preparation matters and you bet Jimmy would have made a difference.

Well after that horrible early start, Troy played the best game of his career.

 

[jterrell]

I used to be one of those fans who believe that had Jimmy stayed we would have won more Super Bowls.

Not anymore.

I now realize that things ended the way they did because it couldn't have gone any other way. Jimmy Johnson's act as a tough-minded psych genius was getting old and Jimmy recognized it. He figured it was better to go out on top vs. sticking around for the downside. Much easier to build a young, fast team and to do it from the perspective as the most recent best college football coach with the most cutting edge knowledge of the young players of that era. Much more difficult to maintain a team that had already peaked, was already starting to lose players and to babysit a team full of spoiled superstars.

In fact, I'm actually more impressed with what Barry Switzer did. There may have been no other coach that could have stepped into that situation and keep it together long enough to win another championship.

Your thoughts?

I don't totally disagree so let's start there.

Jimmy had some amazing plusses as Head Coach but he also was fortunate to have the players he did on offense and a good OC that he had zero to do with landing.
Jimmy built a quality young roster and flat wore them out.
He was able to do that largely because he built a staff of collegiate position coaches who had recruited most of the country's 4 and 5 stars but especially that talent tout of Florida and Texas.

And Jimmy's Miami 4-3 defensive scheme was simply perfect in that era of the NFL. Built depth up front and attack offense with faster, fresher players.
And Jimmy was a DB coach much like Saban/Belichik which is a massive advantage in building winning defenses. You can pay less and coach those guys up on scheme/technique.

He also did this at the end of the last pre salary cap era.
So he knew he was going to lose all those young players he had molded.
Dallas was too good to have any real draft ammo and Jimmy lived for that.

Now where we wildly differ. I love Switzer but he had no business EVER being an NFL head coach. His biggest assets had zero to do with the NFL.
Had Jerry went out and got a Parcells style coach post Jimmy we never would have experienced the long drought much less the painful 5-11 seasons of Dave Campo.
The team badly needed to overhaul its' front office as Larry Lacewell was NOT that dude.
The scheme son both offense and defense grew stale as teams spent 4-5 years learning to defeat it.
The team needed a massive overhaul not a figurehead to keep paddling down stream but slowly sinking.

 

[jterrell]

You're right.
But as Michael Irvin used to say, Jimmy knew who his playmakers were and treated them by a different standard.
In a way, you had to hate it for the unfairness of it all but love it for the honesty of it all.
Truth be told, no one treats everyone the same. It's almost humanly impossible.
Jimmy was just honest about it.
I love the stories Irvin used to tell.
One of them had to do when Erik Williams came to a Super Bowl team meeting late. Previously, Jimmy had said anyone who came late to the meeting would not play in the Super Bowl.
Big E was obviously late to the meeting. As Irvin tells it, the whole team was nervous because they remembered what Jimmy had said but knew Erik Williams was a vital player the team needed to win against the Bills in Super Bowl 28.
Jimmy says, in so many words, "Big E, I'm disappointed in you. blah, blah, blah, more expression of disappointment." Then Jimmy says, "And after the game, we're going to deal with this."
Irvin said the room erupted in cheers and, right then, he knew the Cowboys were going to win the Super Bowl.
Jimmy might have been partial, but he wasn't stupid.

The downside is guys like Big E lacked discipline so wildly that they shortened their own NFL careers.

Jimmy could have easily sat Big E for 1 quarter and own that SB by a ton and taught that young man a lesson.

 

[tyke1doe]

The downside is guys like Big E lacked discipline so wildly that they shortened their own NFL careers.

True

Jimmy could have easily sat Big E for 1 quarter and own that SB by a ton and taught that young man a lesson.

I don't know how much of a lesson he would have learned. At this point, people are grown. It's hard to change when patterns become engrained.
That's what I tell my students ... "You can cheat if you want to, but even if I don't catch you, you can't outrun your character, and your character is formed by the everyday things you do so much so that you think you'll be able to change when you need to, but you won't."

 

[TheCritic]

Too many of you are putting words in my mouth and can't stay on point. A lot of Aikman revisionism going on as well. Aikman didn't start complaining until the losing started. All I said about Switzer is that he was able to keep the team together long enough to win another championship. A bunch of armchair lazy wannabes think anybody could have done what Switzer did don't know squat about football or coaching.

 

[terra]

The post about us being arrogant and overconfident when we played SF in 94 was dead on. Most of the time coaches really cannot do anything about that. Lombardi and Landry couldn;t' it happened to Bellicek as well. And it was those killer turnovers that put us in so deep a hole that it would have taken a near miracle to win.

But those that think we could have won it all in 96 are full of crap. The SB in 95 showed we were in the decline. The Steelers pretty much stuffed our O line in the second half; we could not run the ball. And out D was pure lucky that McPick gifted our SB MVP like he did. I think without those pics we lose that game.
By 96 our O line was even weaker and so was the D.

 

[IceBowler]

Jimmy stays - I believe we get 3 in a row .. no more.
Switzer was worthless in my opinion.

 

[805BoysInBlue]

Then what's their beef with each other? Or at least Jerry's beef, Jimmy has seemed to move on

Jimmy would bad mouth Jerry and undermine him constantly at Valley Ranch. He would try to degrade Jerry and emberass him

 

[Runwildboys]

Jimmy stays - I believe we get 3 in a row .. no more.
Switzer was worthless in my opinion.

So you think they win the one they lost, and lose the one they won?