RECAP: Sean Salisbury on Vince Young's workout...

[ZB9]

bunch of haters

"CajunCowboy" why are you such a Longhorn hater? I see that you have Tom Landry in your avatar (greatest Cowboy ever) - Landry was a Longhorn

anyway, without the "homerism"...Vince Young is one of the most dominant college players EVER, and he has NFL tools. I certainly wouldnt bet against the kid in the NFL.

 

[Thick 'N Hearty]

How many coverages did he see today? How many times did he have to check down to another play or make some decisions on the fly.

Geez, these guys get all warm and fuzzy over a guy whith great "zip" on the ball. Well, Ryan Leaf had great Zip on the ball as well. How'd that work out?

If the guy doesn't have it upstairs he ain't gonna cut it in today's NFL at QB. Pure and simple.

You can say that about any of these guys having pro days. How many tacklers do RBs have to shed on their drills? How about WRs? Are they having to out-juke shadows to get open?

I guarantee you as long as he can run an offense and score, coaches won't care what he scored on the Wonderlick (sp?).

 

[5mics]

How many coverages did he see today? How many times did he have to check down to another play or make some decisions on the fly.

Geez, these guys get all warm and fuzzy over a guy whith great "zip" on the ball. Well, Ryan Leaf had great Zip on the ball as well. How'd that work out?

If the guy doesn't have it upstairs he ain't gonna cut it in today's NFL at QB. Pure and simple.

Spoken like a true LSU fan!

 

[Big D]

I'll get slammed but I'm gonna come out and say it:


The big, black, fast, strongarmed, unstoppable QB will not succeed at the NFL level over the white, slower, stiffer, less exciting QB because he is DUMB!




Sounds stupid doesn't it? While it may or may not be intentional, I think this is the underlying sentiment.

Every QB coming out of college is a total unknown. Anyone who says they can accurately predict who will dominate at the next level is lying.

If you can ball you can ball. If not, it will show. I think ppl are getting too caught up with VY's diction than anything and the mystery wonderlic score just adds fuel to their fire. How else do you explain Marino, kelly etc. with equally poor wonderlic scores being better QB's because 'they speak well'?

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

First of all what do you mean "Some things never change"?

Second Pete Carroll's Defense is not an NFL Defense. IT was good but not Elite by NFL standards.

I question his mental abilities because he did poorly on a mental accumen test. That would be reason enough to doubt it. And before you come up with the Marino comparison, please. Ever watch Marino on CBS? The guy is about as bright as a cave.

Again, I would love for you to elaborate on the Things never change crack.

Using that paradigm, no NCAA defense is an NFL quality defense. Really given your standards no quarterback is good enough to justify a top 5 pick. I really think in your mind you make excuses without real basis to downgrade Vince Young.

I mean the Longhorns defense certainly wasnt an NFL defense so I suppose by your reasoning Leinert never saw an NFL defense so therefore he doesnt deserve a top 5 selection either.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

thw wonderlic is cause for concern (and he did indeed make a painfully low score the first time, and a mediocre score the next time)...however my concerns about him if I were scouting him for an NFL offense havent changed a bit:

1) hasnt been in a drop back offense, footwork for the drop back offense will have to worked on alot

YOu know the report pointed out that his footwork looked excellent but you know I guess well just ignore that because weve already made up our mind havent we?

2) ran a school yard, option style scheme for basically his whole 3 yrs there

Actually Ive seen 'school yard' football a lot having grown up in south Texas and Texas' offense was not it. I think you would have had a point if you were talking about some of say early ninties Nebraska style offesne but this isnt the case.

Yes they did run the option a few times a game and yes they did play a lot of shotgun BUT just because you attempt to pigeonhole something in your mind doesnt make it the case.

3) the Big 12 simply wasnt very good either yr he was the starter...his teams at Texas were loaded with NFL calibar talent against mediocre opponents...two amazing bowl games, but niether Michigan last yr nor USC this yr were good on defense

Really a terrible argument to make on your part. I mean with the exception of the SEC pretty much all of the conferences are two ro three good teams and a bunch of scrubs but Im not going to go for your red herring.

If I grant that his competition wasnt the best, then what do you expect elite players to do against lesser opponents? Thats right: DOMINATE THEM.

Shall we point out Vince Young's stats?

4) while there are reports he threw well today, a QB should always throw well in perfect conditons with shorts on and WR's running uncovered...I never saw consistent accuracy or arm strength in the games I saw him play vs real opponents...there were flashes, but it wasnt consistent

Whatever Ill put your opinion versus the actual stats. Your opinion doesnt corrlate with the concrete numbers.

major project IMO

Again whatever. Peyton Manning was supposedly the most prepared QB to come out of the NCAA and he still struggled mightily. Any QB coming out of the NCAA ranks into the NFL is a major project.

What is sad is you have already made up your mind and nothing that anyone says is going to sway you from that. Youre just absolutely convinced that Vince Youngs prospects for success in the NFL are not that good. Really your arguments are superfulous and lack anything substantive. They are just little digs and do nothing to build an actual case.

 

[jja050575]

Oakland just signed Aaron Brooks so I doubt they draft VY or any QB this year.

 

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Oakland just signed Aaron Brooks so I doubt they draft VY or any QB this year.

Because as we all know Aaron Brooks is franchise material.

 

[dbair1967]

What is sad is you have already made up your mind and nothing that anyone says is going to sway you from that. Youre just absolutely convinced that Vince Youngs prospects for success in the NFL are not that good. Really your arguments are superfulous and lack anything substantive. They are just little digs and do nothing to build an actual case.

they are not little digs...he did run a spread option style, shotgun offense...history says those QB's dont fare well in the NFL...college stats are not always indicative of how a player(especially a QB) will fare in the NFL, if they were nobody would ever draft a bust at QB would they?...there are too many factors involed in how they got those "stats" such as system, opposition, whether they throw the ball alot (or not very much, which you see in college ratings alot because some QB's have inflated completion %, td % and lower ints because they dont throw that much) etc etc

I havent made up my mind that he will DEFINITELY bust, but I think he's a major project at a position that history says with high picks, bust alot...maybe I'll be wrong, but I just see him as a high risk pick who you'd have to make a huge investment in signing bonus, cap dollars, and time for...

David

 

[ZB9]

he did run a spread option style, shotgun offense...

yea, so did Big Ben

college stats are not always indicative of how a player(especially a QB) will fare in the NFL, if they were nobody would ever draft a bust at QB would they?...there are too many factors involed in how they got those "stats" such as system, opposition, whether they throw the ball alot (or not very much, which you see in college ratings alot because some QB's have inflated completion %, td % and lower ints because they dont throw that much) etc etc

this is not unique to Young. The same thing applies to the other players in this draft (including Leinart and Bush)

I havent made up my mind that he will DEFINITELY bust, but I think he's a major project at a position that history says with high picks, bust alot...maybe I'll be wrong, but I just see him as a high risk pick who you'd have to make a huge investment in signing bonus, cap dollars, and time for...

he might not be as big of a "project" as you think, imo.

anyway, it will be interesting to see how he does in the NFL. Like i said earlier...personally, i wouldnt bet against the kid.

 

[JIGGYFLY]

they are not little digs...he did run a spread option style, shotgun offense...history says those QB's dont fare well in the NFL...college stats are not always indicative of how a player(especially a QB) will fare in the NFL, if they were nobody would ever draft a bust at QB would they?...there are too many factors involed in how they got those "stats" such as system, opposition, whether they throw the ball alot (or not very much, which you see in college ratings alot because some QB's have inflated completion %, td % and lower ints because they dont throw that much) etc etc

I havent made up my mind that he will DEFINITELY bust, but I think he's a major project at a position that history says with high picks, bust alot...maybe I'll be wrong, but I just see him as a high risk pick who you'd have to make a huge investment in signing bonus, cap dollars, and time for...

David

The offense that he ran is fairly new to college football so what is this history you speak of, name 3 other qb,s who have run it that did not succeed in the NFL.

This is the same offense that Alex Smith ran. I have yet to hear one Nfl person say that he ran a sandlot O yet you continue to beat that drum, do you know something everybody else does not?

 

[topper2929]

How about all of the coverages USC and Pete Carroll (an NFL DC) threw at him in the Rose Bowl? The guy is a playmaker! Cowhead on ESPN has been picking him apart since the RB about how all his throws were short in the game. Of course he never mentions that the D wouldn't give Texas anything deep the whole game and forced UT to throw underneath.
VY will be a player in the NFL. McNair will be a perfect mentor for him if he goes to Tenn.

 

[BHendri5]

How about all of the coverages USC and Pete Carroll (an NFL DC) threw at him in the Rose Bowl? The guy is a playmaker! Cowhead on ESPN has been picking him apart since the RB about how all his throws were short in the game. Of course he never mentions that the D wouldn't give Texas anything deep the whole game and forced UT to throw underneath.
VY will be a player in the NFL. McNair will be a perfect mentor for him if he goes to Tenn.

LOL, you can tell you are a VY person. It is not just that USC was not giving them anything deep, those short passes is what VY threw mostly all season long, his TE was his first and only read, (meaning he is still at the high school level as far as looking for receivers).
UT will go back to running their real offense now that they have some real
QBs that can pass. They changed the offense because VY could not get it done in their regular offense, I live right here in Austin, so I can get all the info, that is not reported on the radio waves and television waves.

That was the talk before the season started how they switched to fit VY's talent as a playmaker and he is that, but he is not a QB for the NFL right now ans it will take 3 or 4 yrs maybe longer and maybe he will not cut it at all.
But if he were to switch to WR, he would take the NFL by storm immediately!!!

You will see UT QBs go back under center this season, yes they will still use the shotgun but they will be under center mostly.

As far as his pro day went, I know you read Salisbury quotes, (he is an idiot) he was a sorry pro QB, (but he made it to the NFL) he gets props for that.

I have found that whatever he says believe the opposite and you will come out ahead 90% of the time.

No, on to the pro day, Salisbury said one thing, but I just heard this morning on the radio that they played it safe with VY, he threw 54 passes, 48 were 10 yards or shorter, the dropped passes were over throws on long passes.

Yes he had some snap on the ball, and he can get the ball down field,but his footwork was not good, on 3 steps, 5 steps and 7 steps, the scouts were concerned about his waiter carrying a tray like throwing motion, he could not hit the receivers coming out of their breaks, he always waited until they came out of their breaks. How could he not know that the wonderlic test was not a timed test, and how did he not know that when you go to the combine even if you are not going to work out you still have to take the test.

He is a high profile college athlete, he had to know this, I'm sure his fellow college athlete friends told him that.

The NFL, showed him some favor by letting him test again and not submitting the score of 6 that he made.

 

[DallasCowpoke111]

I havent made up my mind that he will DEFINITELY bust,

LOL..... crawfish much?

Sorry db, but this statement's simply a bold-faced lie, because that is PRECISELY what you've been saying in post after post. You can spin it however you like, but up until just this thread, youve made NO bones about your opinion Young.

Here's an idea kenny...... PICK A STANCE, AND STICK W/ IT!

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

We don't get many Texas games in my neck of the woods.

However I have seen a few over the last few years and I have to say when I saw him previous to this year I was not impressed at all with his passing game.

But I also have to say that when I saw him in the last game he had improved in that area and if you look at stats alone it appears he has made steady improvements from when he first started playing for Texas.

Whether he makes it or not in the NFL remains to be seen, there have been players people said would be busts that make it in the NFL and there have been players people have said are can't miss blue chip prospects that have been busts in the NFL.

Remains to be seen but one thing does have to be said is that it appears he has improved each season at Texas.

 

[DallasCowpoke111]

We don't get many Texas games in my neck of the woods.

However I have seen a few over the last few years and I have to say when I saw him previous to this year I was not impressed at all with his passing game.

But I also have to say that when I saw him in the last game he had improved in that area and if you look at stats alone it appears he has made steady improvements from when he first started playing for Texas.

Whether he makes it or not in the NFL remains to be seen, there have been players people said would be busts that make it in the NFL and there have been players people have said are can't miss blue chip prospects that have been busts in the NFL.

Remains to be seen but one thing does have to be said is that it appears he has improved each season at Texas.

And now... out of shoot number two... from the back hollow's of west ver-gin-e... riding, "The Fence"... BrainPaint!!


:

 

[TEK2000]

LOL, you can tell you are a VY person. It is not just that USC was not giving them anything deep, those short passes is what VY threw mostly all season long, his TE was his first and only read, (meaning he is still at the high school level as far as looking for receivers).
UT will go back to running their real offense now that they have some real
QBs that can pass. They changed the offense because VY could not get it done in their regular offense, I live right here in Austin, so I can get all the info, that is not reported on the radio waves and television waves.

That was the talk before the season started how they switched to fit VY's talent as a playmaker and he is that, but he is not a QB for the NFL right now ans it will take 3 or 4 yrs maybe longer and maybe he will not cut it at all.
But if he were to switch to WR, he would take the NFL by storm immediately!!!

You will see UT QBs go back under center this season, yes they will still use the shotgun but they will be under center mostly.

Nice twist... you claim VY couldn't get it done in Texas' "regular offense". What is their regular offense? Did you think they'd actually expect VY to run the same offense as Chris Simms? That would be completely idiotic.

Then contradict yourself by saying they switched it to fit VY's talent... which is exactly what GOOD coaches do. I commend Greg Davis on his choice of offensive style to suit Vince's talents.

You went to Longhorns pro day just to be able to criticize it all? What a waste... spending all that time focusing on VY and the Longhorns just to down them.

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

And now... out of shoot number two... from the back hollow's of west ver-gin-e... riding, "The Fence"... BrainPaint!!


:

LOL

Well I would rather be honest instead of some of the people who only rag on him because he is a Longhorn or just have not seen him much so they join a bandwagon.

His improvement can not be denied over his time at Texas. His pure athletic ability can not be challenged.

But, since I am sitting on the fence, I get just as much of a kick out of those who just KNOW he is going to be a stud in the NFL.

I am sure there were many that thought the same of many QB's coming out that wound up being busts.

 

[ZB9]

LOL, you can tell you are a VY person. It is not just that USC was not giving them anything deep, those short passes is what VY threw mostly all season long,

wrong

your point here makes me think that either you didnt watch him play, or that you have an agenda.

his TE was his first and only read, (meaning he is still at the high school level as far as looking for receivers).

lol wrong

yes, he threw to his TE a lot...but it wasnt his "first and only read". The guy distributed the ball to quite a few players.

UT will go back to running their real offense now that they have some real
QBs that can pass.

VY cant pass? lol. how do you explain his QB efficiency rating for the season? How do you explain his 275 yards passing against Ohio State? How about his 30/40 passing against USC?

They changed the offense because VY could not get it done in their regular offense, I live right here in Austin, so I can get all the info, that is not reported on the radio waves and television waves.

That was the talk before the season started how they switched to fit VY's talent as a playmaker and he is that, but he is not a QB for the NFL right now ans it will take 3 or 4 yrs maybe longer and maybe he will not cut it at all.
But if he were to switch to WR, he would take the NFL by storm immediately!!!

yes they molded the offense around VY (which is what most teams do in college), and this past season he was one of the most dangerous weapons in college football history.

You will see UT QBs go back under center this season, yes they will still use the shotgun but they will be under center mostly.

I GUARANTEE you that Texas' offense will still be mainly shotgun next season. Watch and see.

anyway, Young is not the only QB that is going to have to adjust to taking more snaps from under center in the NFL. Ben Rothesberger was in the shotgun in college a higher percentage of the time than Vince Young was. Big Ben adjusted to taking snaps from under center (Young wont adjust that quickly, but it can be done)

As far as his pro day went, I know you read Salisbury quotes, (he is an idiot) he was a sorry pro QB, (but he made it to the NFL) he gets props for that.

I have found that whatever he says believe the opposite and you will come out ahead 90% of the time.

No, on to the pro day, Salisbury said one thing, but I just heard this morning on the radio that they played it safe with VY, he threw 54 passes, 48 were 10 yards or shorter, the dropped passes were over throws on long passes.

Yes he had some snap on the ball, and he can get the ball down field,but his footwork was not good, on 3 steps, 5 steps and 7 steps, the scouts were concerned about his waiter carrying a tray like throwing motion, he could not hit the receivers coming out of their breaks, he always waited until they came out of their breaks. How could he not know that the wonderlic test was not a timed test, and how did he not know that when you go to the combine even if you are not going to work out you still have to take the test.

He is a high profile college athlete, he had to know this, I'm sure his fellow college athlete friends told him that.

The NFL, showed him some favor by letting him test again and not submitting the score of 6 that he made.

all of the quotes that ive seen (that werent Mortenson reports from "anonymous sources") were that Young's workout was very good. and supposedly, he did the entire passing tree. Ive seen that stated by numerous people, that werent "anonymous sources". Its funnny that the only negative report is from nameless people that only Mort talked to...then there are a crapload of positive reports (who are on record)...yet which report is ESPN running with on their headline?

anyway, teams can bring him in for a private workout and ask him to throw whatever they want.

 

[Cajuncowboy]

bunch of haters

"CajunCowboy" why are you such a Longhorn hater? I see that you have Tom Landry in your avatar (greatest Cowboy ever) - Landry was a Longhorn

anyway, without the "homerism"...Vince Young is one of the most dominant college players EVER, and he has NFL tools. I certainly wouldnt bet against the kid in the NFL.

Maybe reading is not your long suit. I said Texas is my second favorite College team. I like them almost as much as Penn State. Read a little before Posting.