CFZ Remember: Jerry doesn’t think like we do

[CowboyRoy]

How many Super Bowls did Tom Landry win? How many Super Bowls did the other owners win?

What if they win the Super Bowl this year? They are a contender. Would that make you upset?

Not sure your point here. So because Jerry finally had a great offseason, which he should have done years ago, that erases the last 30 years of his ineptitude? And this current team hasnt won diddly. Personally I think he blew his chance to actually win it all this year because he went light on the Oline. Its always some major screw up with Jerry.

So you think Jerry Jones is a great GM?

 

[rambo2]

Not sure your point here. So because Jerry finally had a great offseason, which he should have done years ago, that erases the last 30 years of his ineptitude? And this current team hasnt won diddly. Personally I think he blew his chance to actually win it all this year because he went light on the Oline. Its always some major screw up with Jerry.

So you think Jerry Jones is a great GM?

The team has been good for several years now. This is going to be the 3rd year in a row with at least double digit wins and could be the 3rd year in a row with at least 12 wins. I think the only team to do that recently is the Chiefs.

I think that right now, the team is outstanding and they could win the whole thing.

 

[Reid1boys]

Reid I don’t disagree with you it helps a lot to have a HOF QB to win in the playoffs consistently…

But since you asked to name the teams w/out HOFers that “get results year in and year out” w/out a HOF QB- Ok not many with same QB…BUT wouldn’t it be reasonable for us to expect some kind of playoff success for us beyond a wild card win once in a while when the following teams have had more success than us in the playoffs w/out a HOFer at QB:

• SF has played in 6 NFC championship games with 4 different starting (non HOF) QBs in the last 25 years, including 2 SB appearances to our zero. They played in 3 NFC championships the last 5 years with two different QBs!
• The hated egirls have also appeared in 6 NFC championship games, 3 SBs and won a Lombardi with 4 different non HOF QBs.
• The midgets have played in 3 NFC championship games, and won 2 SBs (both with borderline HOFer Eli M) and won that other NFC championship with freakin’ Kerry Collins at QB.
• The ravens have played in 4 AFC championships the last 23 years with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco at QB.

All I’m saying here is if two teams in our own division have played in 9 NFC championship games and have won 3 SBs between them since the last time we even won a divisional playoff game, all with the likes of Kerry Collins, Eli Manning (maybe a HOFer), Donovan McNabb, and Nick Foles at QB…couldn’t we have at LEAST made it to even ONE NFC championship game?

I’ve said many times already on this thread, Jerry and the FO have done many good things lately. Good drafts, good rosters. Check. Credit given. But am I supposed to also give the same GM “credit” for not being able to get us to even one divisional playoff win in over a qtr century?

I dont have anything against Jerry Jones personally. He’s a business genius. Brilliant at that. Not necessarily brilliant at football management. Because I just don’t like the results he has been getting in the playoffs and I believe he’s mostly responsible for that. No one has to agree with me on that obviously.

I stated you could name the RARE times its happened. The Ravens.... only had possibly the greatest defense to ever play in the nfl........ scrath them off your list
4 of those Eagles NFC Chamipnship[ games al came with perinnial pro bwl QB Donovan McNabb, last years Eagkes team had number 2 in MVP voting QB.
Goants had .... I hate him as far as a qb, he stinks imo... but yes, he will be a HOF qb soon eli manning.


I said it can happen, but consistently winning in playoffs???????? nah

Niners are only team on your list that would fit the bill.

Even Eagles SB season a few years ago had the qb that would have won MVP had ne not been hurt that season, ensuring them the number 1 seed.... without that, they win nothing.

Our TEAM was good enough last year, and it will be good enough this year.... but no GM or head coach will determine how far we go, only the play of Dakota Prescott will determine where we end up.

 

[75boyz]

Reid I don’t disagree with you it helps a lot to have a HOF QB to win in the playoffs consistently…

But since you asked to name the teams w/out HOFers that “get results year in and year out” w/out a HOF QB- Ok not many with same QB…BUT wouldn’t it be reasonable for us to expect some kind of playoff success for us beyond a wild card win once in a while when the following teams have had more success than us in the playoffs w/out a HOFer at QB:

• SF has played in 6 NFC championship games with 4 different starting (non HOF) QBs in the last 25 years, including 2 SB appearances to our zero. They played in 3 NFC championships the last 5 years with two different QBs!
• The hated egirls have also appeared in 6 NFC championship games, 3 SBs and won a Lombardi with 4 different non HOF QBs.
• The midgets have played in 3 NFC championship games, and won 2 SBs (both with borderline HOFer Eli M) and won that other NFC championship with freakin’ Kerry Collins at QB.
• The ravens have played in 4 AFC championships the last 23 years with Trent Dilfer and Joe Flacco at QB.

All I’m saying here is if two teams in our own division have played in 9 NFC championship games and have won 3 SBs between them since the last time we even won a divisional playoff game, all with the likes of Kerry Collins, Eli Manning (maybe a HOFer), Donovan McNabb, and Nick Foles at QB…couldn’t we have at LEAST made it to even ONE NFC championship game?

I’ve said many times already on this thread, Jerry and the FO have done many good things lately. Good drafts, good rosters. Check. Credit given. But am I supposed to also give the same GM “credit” for not being able to get us to even one divisional playoff win in over a qtr century?

I dont have anything against Jerry Jones personally. He’s a business genius. Brilliant at that. Not necessarily brilliant at football management. Because I just don’t like the results he has been getting in the playoffs and I believe he’s mostly responsible for that. No one has to agree with me on that obviously.

While I am not a Reid supporter with his Jerry views I fall in line with his opinions on the QB position. Even with your competitive numbers shown here Bob, I could respond with the other angle of how many SBs were reached and won by HOF level QB talent as well.

I just don't like settling for Dak is as good as they can do because they don't have a HOF in the on deck circle warming up.
They need to be pro active NOW in drafting, trading or by whatever means necessary before this defensive talent is gone along with it's coach.
I'm not the biggest believer in McCheese fixing Dak either. Highly doubtful to be honest.

But to keep the status quo after a Rush type has proven he could win with this team as well is ridiculous.

It's the one position holding the team back.

My opinion is all.

 

[Bobhaze]

I stated you could name the RARE times its happened. The Ravens.... only had possibly the greatest defense to ever play in the nfl........ scrath them off your list
4 of those Eagles NFC Chamipnship[ games al came with perinnial pro bwl QB Donovan McNabb, last years Eagkes team had number 2 in MVP voting QB.
Goants had .... I hate him as far as a qb, he stinks imo... but yes, he will be a HOF qb soon eli manning.


I said it can happen, but consistently winning in playoffs???????? nah

Niners are only team on your list that would fit the bill.

Even Eagles SB season a few years ago had the qb that would have won MVP had ne not been hurt that season, ensuring them the number 1 seed.... without that, they win nothing.

Our TEAM was good enough last year, and it will be good enough this year.... but no GM or head coach will determine how far we go, only the play of Dakota Prescott will determine where we end up.

I appreciate your opinion brother. You’re a great Cowboys fan. We just disagree about some things. All good with me. Nothing personal about any of this because in the end we will both will celebrate any Cowboys success we see. Good discussion.

 

[75boyz]

I stated you could name the RARE times its happened. The Ravens.... only had possibly the greatest defense to ever play in the nfl........ scrath them off your list
4 of those Eagles NFC Chamipnship[ games al came with perinnial pro bwl QB Donovan McNabb, last years Eagkes team had number 2 in MVP voting QB.
Goants had .... I hate him as far as a qb, he stinks imo... but yes, he will be a HOF qb soon eli manning.


I said it can happen, but consistently winning in playoffs???????? nah

Niners are only team on your list that would fit the bill.

Even Eagles SB season a few years ago had the qb that would have won MVP had ne not been hurt that season, ensuring them the number 1 seed.... without that, they win nothing.

Our TEAM was good enough last year, and it will be good enough this year.... but no GM or head coach will determine how far we go, only the play of Dakota Prescott will determine where we end up.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[quickccc]

Quick, the bottom line for me is about results. Especially when it matters most- in the playoffs. My problems with Jerry aren’t personal. And I’ve said many times on this thread, the front office he leads has done a good job in the draft and in talent acquisition the last several years. Kudos for that. But the lack of playoff results are unacceptable.

I just want to win multiple playoff games in a row in the same year for a change. Whatever stands in the way of us not accomplishing that I oppose. The only guy who has been at the helm all these years we haven’t accomplished that is JJ. Again, it’s not personal. It’s about results.

OK, but I'm not understanding to Why not place this failure as the Cowboys organization as a whole than just it on Jerry ?

 

[kskboys]

OK, but I'm not understanding to Why not place this failure as the Cowboys organization as a whole than just it on Jerry ?

Because Jerry has been insisting on control, and the success/failure of a team is on the GM. If he wasn't the GM, it mostly would not be on him.

If anyone else had been the GM over the last 28 or whatever years w/ the limited success, you would also be blaming the GM.

I'll pose the reverse question to you. Since Jerry is the GM, why would you not place it on him?

 

[kskboys]

So Jerry is coaching the team during the games? If not it's all on the team. Jerry is just sitting up in his booth looking like a kid happy about his toy. You can blame Jerry for all you want, but it's on the team and coaches to do their jobs.

Psssstttt. The GM hires the coaches and acquires the players.

It's on both Jerry the owner for insisting on a terrible GM and Jerry the GM for doing a crappy job.

 

[rambo2]

Because Jerry has been insisting on control, and the success/failure of a team is on the GM. If he wasn't the GM, it mostly would not be on him.

If anyone else had been the GM over the last 28 or whatever years w/ the limited success, you would also be blaming the GM.

I'll pose the reverse question to you. Since Jerry is the GM, why would you not place it on him?

Place it on him. They are good now. They are 1 of 6 teams that actually have a chance to win this season. Will you be happy if they win?

 

[rambo2]

Psssstttt. The GM hires the coaches and acquires the players.

It's on both Jerry the owner for insisting on a terrible GM and Jerry the GM for doing a crappy job.

How are you currently doing a crappy job when they have a chance to win this season?

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

Place it on him. They are good now. They are 1 of 6 teams that actually have a chance to win this season. Will you be happy if they win?

You keep saying we have a good team and have a chance to win. The problem is we've heard this all before. I'd be ecstatic if we win. I'd probably faint. I don't think we have a team that can win a title. I think we might have a team that can win the NFC but a lot of things have to go right. And I'm not that lucky.

 

[75boyz]

So Jerry is coaching the team during the games? If not it's all on the team. Jerry is just sitting up in his booth looking like a kid happy about his toy. You can blame Jerry for all you want, but it's on the team and coaches to do their jobs.

Yep,
this is where I always add my road to NFL success is with the triangle of a good GM, HC and QB1.
The GM hires the HC and drafts/acquires the QB1 but that does not absolve the HC and QB1 of blame for being poor at their job.
Is the GM to receive more of the blame?
Ultimately, yes.
But the HC and QB1 are individually responsible in their roles for a big portion of team success as well.

The problem is, Dallas's triangle of title holders at all 3 positions are not performing well at their jobs.

jmo

 

[CowboyRoy]

The team has been good for several years now. This is going to be the 3rd year in a row with at least double digit wins and could be the 3rd year in a row with at least 12 wins. I think the only team to do that recently is the Chiefs.

I think that right now, the team is outstanding and they could win the whole thing.

Yah I get all that. And I am certainly glad we are at least here. With MM as HC there has definitely been a difference and I think he has made that difference. I do think the team THIS year has the best chance out of any team the last 30 years. Mostly because of the defense. But that doesn't excuse Jerry's ineptitude and I truly believe has has actually blown our chance at at title THIS year by going short on the Oline. All he had to do was go out and get a stud guard or tackle in the draft or FA and make the line great again and he blew it.

I think we are THAT close. Its SF and Eagles we are going to have to beat and with an average to poor Oline, its will be tough.

I also think he went light with they running backs. Once Tyron goes down again this offense will again be inconsistent and have trouble against teams like SF.

 

[Reid1boys]

I appreciate your opinion brother. You’re a great Cowboys fan. We just disagree about some things. All good with me. Nothing personal about any of this because in the end we will both will celebrate any Cowboys success we see. Good discussion.

I may sound brash or whatever... but this is never personal with me. All we are is Cowboys fans atthe bar shooting the breeze.... none of it means anything. I always appreciate the thought that you put into your osts

 

[Pass2Run]

I’m sure 99.9% of the Cowboys fans here on the Zone want to win a championship badly. We all have a hunger to see another Lombardi join the storied collection of the 5 others. There are dozens and dozens of threads that contain hope and realistic dreams of winning. And those dreams aren’t ridiculous. This roster is very good. It’s not out of the question to see this team go on a deep playoff run. I’m hopeful despite the last 28 seasons.

The biggest roadblock to that dream however is this: our owner/president/GM does not want to win as badly as we do. He doesn’t think like we do. Yes, I know JJ wants to win. He would love the spotlight of hoisting a Lombardi on SB Sunday while shouting, “We did it our way!”

But being motivated by doing whatever it takes to win a championship is stronger among us fans than with our owner. The strongest motivation he has are these two things:

1. Being the face of the franchise from “jocks and socks” to the last detail of every penny. It’s why he’s an owner.
2. Winning the “Forbes Championship” every season. He’s prouder of the fortune he’s made with this team than the 3 Lombardis he’s won.

So when any one of us fans think if we don’t have a winning season this year that Mike McCarthy is on the hot seat, think again. Jerry doesn’t think like we do. If we win or if we lose, Jerry Jones is going to do things “his way” with himself as the centerpiece. If winning a championship was THE goal, he would’ve made changes at the top a long time ago.

So as we prepare for another season, I still have hope we can go on a deep playoff run. We have a very good roster and I do think McCarthy is one of the best head coaches we’ve had since The Big Tuna or Jimmy. But if things go south and we somehow don’t make the playoffs, it won’t make Jerry as unhappy as it will us.

It appears the last of the batch of Jerry's darlings are almost gone. There's one remaining; if Dak doesn't take them to a SB this year, all bets are off, imo.

 

[plasticman]

I’m sure 99.9% of the Cowboys fans here on the Zone want to win a championship badly. We all have a hunger to see another Lombardi join the storied collection of the 5 others. There are dozens and dozens of threads that contain hope and realistic dreams of winning. And those dreams aren’t ridiculous. This roster is very good. It’s not out of the question to see this team go on a deep playoff run. I’m hopeful despite the last 28 seasons.

The biggest roadblock to that dream however is this: our owner/president/GM does not want to win as badly as we do. He doesn’t think like we do. Yes, I know JJ wants to win. He would love the spotlight of hoisting a Lombardi on SB Sunday while shouting, “We did it our way!”

But being motivated by doing whatever it takes to win a championship is stronger among us fans than with our owner. The strongest motivation he has are these two things:

1. Being the face of the franchise from “jocks and socks” to the last detail of every penny. It’s why he’s an owner.
2. Winning the “Forbes Championship” every season. He’s prouder of the fortune he’s made with this team than the 3 Lombardis he’s won.

So when any one of us fans think if we don’t have a winning season this year that Mike McCarthy is on the hot seat, think again. Jerry doesn’t think like we do. If we win or if we lose, Jerry Jones is going to do things “his way” with himself as the centerpiece. If winning a championship was THE goal, he would’ve made changes at the top a long time ago.

So as we prepare for another season, I still have hope we can go on a deep playoff run. We have a very good roster and I do think McCarthy is one of the best head coaches we’ve had since The Big Tuna or Jimmy. But if things go south and we somehow don’t make the playoffs, it won’t make Jerry as unhappy as it will us.

Undeniably true.

In fact, for Jerry, there are certain conditions when it comes to winning a championship. Jerry wants credit. It is very important to him. He still harbors resentment for not receiving more credit as the self appointed GM during the first three SB's, despite the fact that it was Jimmy who built the team, the attitude, the chemistry.

If the Cowboys do win a championship then Jerry will be uncontrollable. he has always looked upon his coaches, scouting staff and other football professionals as his employees. as far as he is concerned, The success of his employees are his success. When speaking of the success of any individual or group, it will always be "we".

I will give Jerry this. Recently, he has surrounded himself with talent when it comes to the managing, scouting and coaching of the Cowboys. He has made some good hires and I think he has occasionally given in to advice that contradicted his personal wishes. That is huge.

Though it is true that it has taken far too long and Jerry made far too many mistakes, if the Cowboys win a Super Bowl then Jerry will deserve some credit. That's not going to be pretty.

 

[rambo2]

Yah I get all that. And I am certainly glad we are at least here. With MM as HC there has definitely been a difference and I think he has made that difference. I do think the team THIS year has the best chance out of any team the last 30 years. Mostly because of the defense. But that doesn't excuse Jerry's ineptitude and I truly believe has has actually blown our chance at at title THIS year by going short on the Oline. All he had to do was go out and get a stud guard or tackle in the draft or FA and make the line great again and he blew it.

I think we are THAT close. Its SF and Eagles we are going to have to beat and with an average to poor Oline, its will be tough.

I also think he went light with they running backs. Once Tyron goes down again this offense will again be inconsistent and have trouble against teams like SF.

Was there a stud guard or tackle available in free agency? I think that Mazi Smith was absolutely a good pick that makes them a better team. I'm pretty sure that they are confident in the development of Waletzko. We will have to see how that goes. I know that they didn't like the guard in the 2nd round for their offense.

 

[rambo2]

You keep saying we have a good team and have a chance to win. The problem is we've heard this all before. I'd be ecstatic if we win. I'd probably faint. I don't think we have a team that can win a title. I think we might have a team that can win the NFC but a lot of things have to go right. And I'm not that lucky.

I don't care what you heard before. I know that they have a good team and can win a title. The luck has nothing to do with you or me.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I don't care what you heard before. I know that they have a good team and can win a title. The luck has nothing to do with you or me.

You don't know they can win a title until they do.