Report: Cowboys value S Vaccaro immensely

[Doomsday101]

Don't disagree with this but I think the proof will be in the pudding. He is a good player but he's far from a great player at this point in his development, IMO. He was a better tackler earlier in his career then he was later. That's a problem and you can't just dismiss that. Can he run? If he can, he should be able to show that. That's all I'm saying. If he can't run, then this scheme will eat him alive and it will be a nightmare around here and you know what I mean Dooms. I do not want to see that happen again.

I understand but speed alone means nothing. I have seen my share of 4.3 guys who can't play worth a damn. AOA great speed but so what. As a safety being able to make the reads quickly allows you to get in position to make plays. They are not going to put him in bmup and run coverage vs speed guys. Now while you don't want guys who have no speed the 40 time alone will not tell you what kind of player you have.

 

[supercowboy8]

I agree on vaccaro I'm not a big fan but I don't think he is terrible, I think he has alk the speed needed to play FS. In saying in general if the top player in your board is there at 15 and you live the guy and all the other players left don't have even close grades, then I'm ok with trading a 3rd to get your guy. I would be fine with it.

I think Vaccaro is better then all the ither saftiea in the draft and was played out of position in texas. Having to play the slot and up in the box more than he should which resulted in lack of stats.

Vcarro shown more than Cyprien playing at a much bigger school vs veterans teams than Cyprien did.
Eric Reid did show much last year either at LSU with all the play makers on defense gone.
I don't think anyone is calling vaccaro the next earl Thomas
I just know what you want at safety, we have to have someone back there

 

[BrAinPaiNt]

I wonder how much him being a long horn sways people's opinions (whether good or bad).

 

[Doomsday101]

I wonder how much him being a long horn sways people's opinions (whether good or bad).

I don't know. I'm a Horns fan but I don't want Dallas taking players because of where a guy went to college. Gil Brandt own characterization of Vaccaro feels he has the same talent as Barron and thinks he will be gone before the Cowboys pick at 18.

Frankly the last Texas player I wanted the Cowboys to get was Earl Thomas outside of that I can't think of a 1st rd pick I would have used on a Texas player despite being a Longhorns fan.


Brandt comments: "I think he's every bit as good as Mark Barron, who was picked seventh overall by the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2012 and went on to have a very good rookie year," Brandt writes of Vaccaro. "The tough Vaccaro is athletic enough to cover the slot receiver; he never slows down."

 

[bounce]

I have zero faith in Dallas being able to get value for the picks, so I just want good players - regardless of whether they're over drafted for their abilities. If Vaccaro turns out to be a late 1st/early 2 talent, but Dallas gets him at 18 or trades up - so be it.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I understand but speed alone means nothing. I have seen my share of 4.3 guys who can't play worth a damn. AOA great speed but so what. As a safety being able to make the reads quickly allows you to get in position to make plays. They are not going to put him in bmup and run coverage vs speed guys. Now while you don't want guys who have no speed the 40 time alone will not tell you what kind of player you have.

Nobody said speed alone. What I said was he better be able to run fast. I said nothing about being able to do everything else as well. In fact, I said just the opposite.

I mean, a Tampa2 is better then just a cover2 because in a T2, the MLB usually drops a little deeper, thus allowing for the Safety to have to cover less area but regardless, a Safety has to be able to turn and run down a big WR in the deep sideline and get there. You gotta be able to run and do all the rest as well. That's why the Safeties are usually the better atheletes, as opposed to the CBs in a Tampa2.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree on vaccaro I'm not a big fan but I don't think he is terrible, I think he has alk the speed needed to play FS. In saying in general if the top player in your board is there at 15 and you live the guy and all the other players left don't have even close grades, then I'm ok with trading a 3rd to get your guy. I would be fine with it.

I think Vaccaro is better then all the ither saftiea in the draft and was played out of position in texas. Having to play the slot and up in the box more than he should which resulted in lack of stats.

Vcarro shown more than Cyprien playing at a much bigger school vs veterans teams than Cyprien did.
Eric Reid did show much last year either at LSU with all the play makers on defense gone.
I don't think anyone is calling vaccaro the next earl Thomas
I just know what you want at safety, we have to have someone back there

Vacarro actually asked to be allowed to play more slot coverage responsibility because he wanted to show the NFL that he could do it. That was really not the decision of the DC as much as it was his desire to play it. However, I think it did help him in the eyes of the NFL because all you hear about Vacarro is that he can play the slot and how valuable that is. I like Vacarro but I am not convinced a better prospect is not available.

I think Taylor might be the better prospect at Safety. However, he might not be there.

 

[Doomsday101]

Nobody said speed alone. What I said was he better be able to run fast. I said nothing about being able to do everything else as well. In fact, I said just the opposite.

I mean, a Tampa2 is better then just a cover2 because in a T2, the MLB usually drops a little deeper, thus allowing for the Safety to have to cover less area but regardless, a Safety has to be able to turn and run down a big WR in the deep sideline and get there. You gotta be able to run and do all the rest as well. That's why the Safeties are usually the better atheletes, as opposed to the CBs in a Tampa2.

I agree but I don't see Vaccaro as a guy who lacks speed. 40 times are great but often times you will have players play faster than their 40 times reason is they see the development of the play they know and understand the routs and they put themselfs in position to make plays. I have never seen speed being an issue with Vaccaro ability to play the position. I know what a tampa 2 defense is and as mentioned others who have worked as scouts think Vaccaro is a quality player now if they felt he did not have the speed to play in the NFL I doubt they would rank him as highly as they have.

Let clear up my position if one of the higher ranked OL or DL player is there then take them but at 18 I don't have an issue with Vaccaro

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I agree but I don't see Vaccaro as a guy who lacks speed. 40 times are great but often times you will have players play faster than their 40 times reason is they see the development of the play they know and understand the routs and they put themselfs in position to make plays. I have never seen speed being an issue with Vaccaro ability to play the position. I know what a tampa 2 defense is and as mentioned others who have worked as scouts think Vaccaro is a quality player now if they felt he did not have the speed to play in the NFL I doubt they would rank him as highly as they have.

Let clear up my position if one of the higher ranked OL or DL player is there then take them but at 18 I don't have an issue with Vaccaro

Well, I think he's got to show it. I mean, that's not unreasonable. I will guarantee you this thou, if he runs a slow time at his Pro Day, all of those T2/C2 guys are not going to like him nearly as much. He has to run well IMO.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well, I think he's got to show it. I mean, that's not unreasonable. I will guarantee you this thou, if he runs a slow time at his Pro Day, all of those T2/C2 guys are not going to like him nearly as much. He has to run well IMO.

Again I think he will be judge overall not 40 time alone this is not track and field. I also know Vaccaro was not happy with the time he posted at the combines and would not be surprised if he post a better time on pro day.

Lastly though I think it is a bit silly to judge player off the underwear Olympics more than what they have shown in live action on the field. That is where players perform.

I'm not one who gets overly caught up in the combines as the be all when it comes to players. I have seen workout warrior who do not impress when it matters.
My hope is one of the top OL or DL players is sitting there when we make our selection but I can’t say I would hesitate to take Vaccaro if they are not

 

[joseephuss]

Again I think he will be judge overall not 40 time alone this is not track and field. I also know Vaccaro was not happy with the time he posted at the combines and would not be surprised if he post a better time on pro day.

Lastly though I think it is a bit silly to judge player off the underwear Olympics more than what they have shown in live action on the field. That is where players perform.

I'm not one who gets overly caught up in the combines as the be all when it comes to players. I have seen workout warrior who do not impress when it matters.
My hope is one of the top OL or DL players is sitting there when we make our selection but I can’t say I would hesitate to take Vaccaro if they are not

His combine performance doesn't bother me or change my opinion of him. I didn't think he was a 1st rounder based on watching him play at Texas.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

I wonder how much him being a long horn sways people's opinions (whether good or bad).

A great deal both ways I think. I don't believe that Vacarro is as good as many Texas fans think. This is not to say that he is a bad player because I don't believe that. On the other hand, I don't think he is as bad as many believe either. I think his draft status is elevated because we don't have an Eric Berry type prospect but I think he's still a pretty good player.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Again I think he will be judge overall not 40 time alone this is not track and field. I also know Vaccaro was not happy with the time he posted at the combines and would not be surprised if he post a better time on pro day.

Lastly though I think it is a bit silly to judge player off the underwear Olympics more than what they have shown in live action on the field. That is where players perform.

I'm not one who gets overly caught up in the combines as the be all when it comes to players. I have seen workout warrior who do not impress when it matters.
My hope is one of the top OL or DL players is sitting there when we make our selection but I can’t say I would hesitate to take Vaccaro if they are not

Well, I would be much more inclined to agree with you if Texas played a Tampa scheme but they didn't so you have to project him and when you do that, you have to rely on things like measured results. That's just the way it is.

I understand what you are saying here but I just don't see the Clear #1 player that many here see. I see Taylor as the better Safety prospect.

 

[Doomsday101]

Well, I would be much more inclined to agree with you if Texas played a Tampa scheme but they didn't so you have to project him and when you do that, you have to rely on things like measured results. That's just the way it is.

I understand what you are saying here but I just don't see the Clear #1 player that many here see. I see Taylor as the better Safety prospect.

And again 40 time is misleading and does not tell you what kind of player you are getting.

NFL.com

There have been players that time fast in the 40, but when watching them play football they don't look nearly as fast. Jets defensive end Vernon Gholston ran extremely well at the combine, but when he was evaluated on tape from Ohio State, his speed never translated to the field. Little wonder he has played three years in the league and has yet to record a sack. He isn't the only one. There have been countless workout warriors who have shown well at the combine and failed in the NFL.

Some players are fast, but do not play fast, while others time slow, but play fast in pads. And that is the key for finding the right balance when using the 40 times as a measuring stick. Like all things, when evaluating college players, everything falls back to the evaluation of playing the game. Does this player play fast? Can his 40 time be seen when he puts on his pads?


Don't be so quick to judge a player by his 40 time

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/09...-be-so-quick-to-judge-a-player-by-his-40-time

I have seen this crud so many times where a guy is knocked for not posting great numbers yet ends up being a damn good player and yet seen guys put up great numbers at the combines and not do jack in the NFL. These are workouts not the game of football. I don't care about workout warriors I want football players guys who prove it when and where it really counts and that is on the field of play. This is not track and field the game is not about running some 40 yard dash.

I just think people get carried away with these combine numbers as opposed to how they play as football players

 

[xwalker]

Well, I would be much more inclined to agree with you if Texas played a Tampa scheme but they didn't so you have to project him and when you do that, you have to rely on things like measured results. That's just the way it is.

I understand what you are saying here but I just don't see the Clear #1 player that many here see. I see Taylor as the better Safety prospect.

Who is Taylor?

 

[supercowboy8]

Well, I think he's got to show it. I mean, that's not unreasonable. I will guarantee you this thou, if he runs a slow time at his Pro Day, all of those T2/C2 guys are not going to like him nearly as much. He has to run well IMO.

I think he will run in the mid 4.5s much like Cyprien did

 

[Doomsday101]

Well, I would be much more inclined to agree with you if Texas played a Tampa scheme but they didn't so you have to project him and when you do that, you have to rely on things like measured results. That's just the way it is.

I understand what you are saying here but I just don't see the Clear #1 player that many here see. I see Taylor as the better Safety prospect.

as for Taylor that is a prime example of a guy taking bad angles not reacting well and his speed was worthless.

 

[supercowboy8]

A great deal both ways I think. I don't believe that Vacarro is as good as many Texas fans think. This is not to say that he is a bad player because I don't believe that. On the other hand, I don't think he is as bad as many believe either. I think his draft status is elevated because we don't have an Eric Berry type prospect but I think he's still a pretty good player.

Just to let you know I live in Tennessee and a big UT Vol fan not longhorn and i am a fan of vaccaro

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

as for Taylor that is a prime example of a guy taking bad angles not reacting well and his speed was worthless.

Really, how so? He didn't play safety so where are you getting all of this? He just ran a 4.28 at the combine.

 

[ABQCOWBOY]

Who is Taylor?

Jamar Taylor. He's a CB but I think he projects even better to Safety.