Rev. Al, Russell Simmons, PETA add their two cents on Vick...

[Crown Royal]

Vegan or vegetarian?

Technically pescatarian. I tried not to eat fish, but I've read enough that I consider it unhealthy.

 

[joseephuss]

Killing them at all.



So humanity could not survive without steak? Humans would die off, if they could not have delicious red meat?

Well, that is a different conversation.

I don't think I can be a vegetarian. Actually, I know I am not capable of it. I don't live on red meat. I eat a lot of chicken and fish, but it is the same premise of eating animals. And I eat a lot of rice, but just can't get into eating vegetables since I like so few veggies. I don't even eat much fruit although I like fruit.

I see an easy distinction between killing animals for food and killing animals for sport. I also see a clear distinction between the methods of killing animals for sport. There is a difference between hunting and fishing compared to fighting dogs. I no longer hunt or fish myself because I don't enjoy it and do see it as being somewhat wrong. I just don't think it is anywhere close to having animals fighting each other. Even chicken fighting is not as bad as dog fighting and both are very wrong in my opinion.

 

[Alexander]

This is the best point I've heard all day.

I really shouldn't have gotten back into this. It just ends up being some asinine conversation with summer about whether or not we MUST kill cows.

We do not have to kill cows. Humanely or otherwise. As it is, we do - even in a horrible way. It is completely unnecessary, but we allow it because we enjoy steaks, and because cows are not pets. You could throw any animal killing in here, and it would hold. It isn't necessary to hunt deer. It isn't necessary to boil crabs alive. but we do it because they are freaking delicious.

It is not necessary to fight dogs for entertainment. It is completely unnecessary, but some people feel that it is ok to fight them for entertainment, because they do not share the same feelings about dogs as the rest of the world does. It is wrong, and horrible, and disgusting - but so are some of the other things we do to animals. Some disgusting acts are ok because we do them to stupid, useless animals. Some aren't because people do them to animals that we consider friends. So we pass laws...

Morally - it gets a bit blurry if you're real with yourself.

I see what you are doing here with the hypocrisy angle.

Carry on. Off you go.

 

[5Stars]

That would be a pretty crappy government these days in this culture.

I'm just saying that if no amimals were killed for human comsumption or for the benefit of HUMAN BEINGS...the animals would eventually take over the planet!

I wonder how may cows are on the face of the earth right now, or pigs, or chickens or whatever else animal we eat? Could you imagine going just 10 maybe 20 years without thinning them out?

Maybe that is what Vick is doing? Maybe hes' just trying to help thin the dog populatioin?

 

[Alexander]

Technically pescatarian. I tried not to eat fish, but I've read enough that I consider it unhealthy.

I see.

Just curious.

My former fiancee was a vegan.

I now consider anyone who believes in that dietary choice my mortal enemy.

You are fortunate.

 

[Crown Royal]

I'm just saying that if no amimals were killed for human comsumption or for the benefit of HUMAN BEINGS...the animals would eventually take over the planet!

I wonder how may cows are on the fact of the earth right now, or pigs, or chickens or whatever else animal we eat? Could you imagine going just 10 maybe 20 years without thinning them out?

Maybe that is what Vick is doing? Maybe hes' just trying to help thin the dog populatioin?

That's not really true. There are more animals in this world BECAUSE we consume meat, not vice versa. The majority of India worshipped cows and was vegetarian for thousands of years, but they weren't exactly overrun.

 

[bbgun]

We do not have to kill cows. Humanely or otherwise. As it is, we do - even in a horrible way. It is completely unnecessary, but we allow it because we enjoy steaks, and because cows are not pets. You could throw any animal killing in here, and it would hold. It isn't necessary to hunt deer. It isn't necessary to boil crabs alive. but we do it because they are freaking delicious.

True. I'm no vegan, but there's not one damn thing we get from cows that we couldn't do without. We slaughter them to make out lives easier, more pleasurable. Ditto chickens, lobsters, ducks, etc.

 

[Crown Royal]

I see what you are doing here with the hypocrisy angle.

Carry on. Off you go.

Hypocracy is without a doubt one of the weakest moral arguments. Just because someone might be a hypocrate doesn't make them wrong.

 

[Crown Royal]

I see.

Just curious.

My former fiancee was a vegan.

I now consider anyone who believes in that dietary choice my mortal enemy.

You are fortunate.

LOL. I could never be vegan. I've never even considered it. I have cut back on my dairy quite a bit, but that's about it, and more to do with the fat content than any moral reservation.

 

[joseephuss]

I'm just saying that if no amimals were killed for human comsumption or for the benefit of HUMAN BEINGS...the animals would eventually take over the planet!

I wonder how may cows are on the fact of the earth right now, or pigs, or chickens or whatever else animal we eat? Could you imagine going just 10 maybe 20 years without thinning them out?

Maybe that is what Vick is doing? Maybe hes' just trying to help thin the dog populatioin?

That is funny. I know you are joking, but of course we know that cows are around in such large numbers because we breed them. Stop eating them and leave them to their own devices and I don't think they procreate at the same numbers.

There is a concern, if only a small one that dog fighting rings may turn to stealing dogs to use to fight. You start losing dogs in fights you have to find replacements. Sure they can breed some, but they can also go out and steal someones else pet to use as a training dog or a fighting do.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

This is the best point I've heard all day.

I really shouldn't have gotten back into this. It just ends up being some asinine conversation with summer about whether or not we MUST kill cows.

I'm not saying we MUST kill cows, I'm saying slaughtering cows has a benefit, idk how you can get huffy when people don't understand you, when you're misunderstanding me right now, Mr. poor eye-sight "IT'S ALL BLURRY!" LOL

 

[Chocolate Lab]

I think everyone gets SP's point. It's not that hard.

Of course there exists a continuum, from killing a bacterium with penicilin or a can of Lysol to murdering other humans. Or if you want to keep it in the animal world, to maiming and killing dogs. It's no revelation that we as a society have to draw a line somewhere between what is morally and legally acceptable and what is not. The vast majority of people draw the line somewhere before the painful execution of Man's Best Friend, which is why there is such moral outrage at this crime from all walks of society.

I mean, it's obvious that Vick and Portis and T and Q draw that line somewhere differently than most people do... But that doesn't make them right. If we all got to draw that line where we wanted, we'd have chaos.

 

[5Stars]

That's not really true. There are more animals in this world BECAUSE we consume meat, not vice versa. The majority of India worshipped cows and was vegetarian for thousands of years, but they weren't exactly overrun.

India is just one part of the earth. I'm talking about the whole freaking planet!

Have you ever killed a fly...swatted a fly, a mosquito...stepped on an ant!

That is what it boils down too from what punk is saying...he thinks there is no difference in killing a cow vs. what a domesticated animal is all about. He says, "why kill cows"? Well!

 

[superpunk]

I see what you are doing here with the hypocrisy angle.

Carry on. Off you go.

It's not about hypocrisy.

Just seeing things from different angles.

 

[Crown Royal]

I think everyone gets SP's point. It's not that hard.

Of course there exists a continuum, from killing a bacterium with penicilin or a can of Lysol to murdering other humans. Or if you want to keep it in the animal world, to maiming and killing dogs. It's no revelation that we as a society have to draw a line somewhere between what is morally and legally acceptable and what is not. The vast majority of people draw the line somewhere before the painful execution of Man's Best Friend, which is why there is such moral outrage at this crime from all walks of society.

I mean, it's obvious that Vick and Portis and T and Q draw that line somewhere differently than most people do... But that doesn't make them right. If we all got to draw that line where we wanted, we'd have chaos.

Post of the thread, by far. The fact is that we as a society have collectively agreed that dogfighting is more atrocious than slaughtering cows, for whatever reason. I mean, you can make arguments to the contrary, and that might be a good argument. But the fact remains that the majority in US society feel this way.

 

[Crown Royal]

India is just one part of the earth. I'm talking about the whole freaking planet!

Have you ever killed a fly...swatted a fly, a mosquito...stepped on an ant!

That is what it boils down too from what punk is saying...he thinks there is no difference in killing a cow vs. what a domesticated animal is all about. He says, "why kill cows"? Well!

India is a pretty big part of the earth. There is simply no reason to believe that humans keep the population of pigs, chickens and cows in check and that they would take over. In fact, quite the opposite, they would probably dwindle as there are not many wild animals like that left.

As far as insects, I can't say I haven't. I've killed many animals, including deer, squirrels, all kinds of birds, even dogs (euthenized and one mongrel in the country when I was a kid). But I do abstain from it now.

And Punk isn't saying that that is what he believes - he is playing devils advocate. And while I don't agree, I can see how there are those who would believe that there is no difference between killing a cow and a dog. I don't agree with that, but I can certainly understand it. A fine distinction.

 

[5Stars]

That is funny. I know you are joking, but of course we know that cows are around in such large numbers because we breed them. Stop eating them and leave them to their own devices and I don't think they procreate at the same numbers.

I'm not joking at all...

You leave animals to their own ways, let the free and let them live how they want? This planet would be overrun by the animals in 20 or 30 years...

You would not be able to travel on mountain roads without hitting a deer in a mile or so...

What about if the Gov made fishing illegal because it's the same as killing a cow to eat? The ocean would turn into a cesspool and we humans would all die in short order...



There are distinctions between domsticated animals and wild animals and animals breed for human survival/comsumption...because if you DON'T kill or thin them out...they will eventually eat you...

 

[Bob Sacamano]

And Punk isn't saying that that is what he believes - he is playing devils advocate. And while I don't agree, I can see how there are those who would believe that there is no difference between killing a cow and a dog. I don't agree with that, but I can certainly understand it. A fine distinction.

one is for human consumption, the other is for entertainment

it's a huge difference

 

[Crown Royal]

I'm not joking at all...

You leave animals to their own ways, let the free and let them live how they want? This planet would be overrun by the animals in 20 or 30 years...

You would not be able to travel on mountain roads without hitting a deer in a mile or so...

What about if the Gov made fishing illegal because it's the same as killing a cow to eat? The ocean would turn into a cesspool and we humans would all die in short order...



There are distinctions between domsticated animals and wild animals and animals breed for human survival/comsumption...because if you DON'T kill or thin them out...they will eventually eat you...

You do realize that cattle populations weren't cultivated until about 200 years or so ago, right? Same with chickens and pigs.

At no time in the history of the world has there been as many of the above mentioned animals as there are now.

Meat used to be a luxury, not a staple.

 

[Crown Royal]

one is for human consumption, the other is for entertainment

it's a huge difference

Of course there is a difference in their purpose. My point is that there are plenty of people who value the life of a dog no more than that of a cow, chicken, paramecium or sponge.

And like I said, I don't agree with that, just stating that there are those who feel that way.

Mostly I can understand them because I used to feel the exact same way.