Revisiting Romo's Late Game Stats

[KJJ]

I read them... thanks for reiterating your moronic "statistic." You don't understand the concept of sample sizes. You can't just pick and choose which games you want to look at and declare them the rule.

Your "research" is the last 2 super bowls? Definition of small sample size. What a joke.

If you think you can determine that winners and losers are determined on the better TD to turnover ratio based on the last 2 super bowls, you're dumber than I thought.

No, you haven't. You've deflected and ignored. All based on looking 2-5 Super Bowls, and 7 games of Romo's 100+.

Prove it then. What's the correlation to TD to turnover ration to winning... you haven't even shown the correlation for the 5 games you "researched." Do some work if you want o be taken seriously in a statistical debate.

You didn't direct me to anything... you just said it's in the thread. That's bull****. There's nothing in the thread except for you trying to make excuses as to why you think the stats presented don't matter. This thread is 320 posts long. If you think you've presented something other than conclusory bull****, then point it out.

With all the drivel you just posted not once did you attempt to prove me wrong. You haven't posted a single thing since you entered this discussion that proves anything I've said wrong. All you're doing is name calling and disagreeing. I could list a huge number of regular season and postseason games that proves a QB's TD to turnover ratio is the biggest determining factor in winning games but I'm not about to waste my time with someone who isn't interested in keeping the discussion civil.

The QB who throws the most TD's and turns it over less their team usually wins the big games. That's a fact I can prove over and over again. If you don't think I couldn't provide a wealth of games to prove it you're kidding yourself. In 2010 Roethlisberger's TD to turnover ratio was 2-2 in the SB vs Aaron Rodgers whose ratio was 3-0. I could bury you with games and numbers to prove my point so go do some of your own research if you think I'm wrong instead of showing to sling mud.

 

[DFWJC]

Here's some trivia that I'll repeat.

Joe Flacco (and team) once won a playoff game with the worst recorded passer rating in playoff history...a 10.0.

Lol

And here's one that's really mind-boggling.

Ben Roethlisberger (and team) WON a SUPER BOWL when Ben had 0TDs, 2 ints, and a 22.6 passer rating ....one of the worst performances by any winner or loser ever in a Super Bowl.
Yet he got a ring.

 

[HappyOnions]

Let's just call things like they actually are...

No, Romo is not solely responsible for any wins or losses that this team may have. But QBs, unfairly or not, are judged based on a more individual basis; it's just the way it is. Romo has had some magical moments late in games but he's also had some god-awful interceptions (YES HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE) and unfortunately, the latter is what sticks with most people.

 

[dstovall5]

Only two QBs have passed for over 300 yds, thrown 4 TD passes and had a QB rating >140 and lost. Their names are Tony Romo and....Tony Romo. That's almost 80 games in NFL history and Romo has them both. The NYG loss 37-34 in 2011 and last year's DEN loss.

This just blows my mind, and after both losses some fans had the nerve to blame the guy. Sure he wasn't perfect, but he was dang near in those games.

 

[jnday]

What does that mean? Are you saying a QB can't win if he throws an INT or loses a fumble? Because I don't think the stats will back you up on that.

You are cherry-picking one line at a time from my post and trying to argue about points that I haven't made. That is weak, even for a lawyer. I think stats will back me up when I say that a turnover in the final minutes of a game doesn't help the team's winning percentage when they need to score to take the lead. In other words, stupid interceptions prevents the team from scoring the needed TD that would win .the game. I don't think that is hard to grasp. Romo has thrown more than one late game interception that has prevented the team from winning. Actually, the list is rather lengthy.

 

[jnday]

Let's just call things like they actually are...

No, Romo is not solely responsible for any wins or losses that this team may have. But QBs, unfairly or not, are judged based on a more individual basis; it's just the way it is. Romo has had some magical moments late in games but he's also had some god-awful interceptions (YES HE WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE) and unfortunately, the latter is what sticks with most people.

One reason that those god-awful interceptions sticks with people is that Romo tends to make these mistakes in high profile games against the better teams in the league.

 

[rpntex]

The irony is the same people who talk about this being a team sport also want to defend Romo with stats that suggest he does it by himself.

Actually, it's just the opposite. These stats show where Romo doesn't LOSE games by himself. Hasn't that been the anti-Romo mantra all along?

When Dallas wins, it's a "team" win.
When Dallas loses, it's a "Romo" loss.

 

[jobberone]

What was the last pass romo threw last year

What was his first? How about the 239th?

 

[jnday]

There are a few more than just four guys that hate Romo. For the life of me I just cannot understand the hate for a player on the Cowboys that has given up his body for at least 8-8 for the last few years considering the lack of talent this Cowboys team have had for several years now. These 8-8 teams would not win 3 games with the likes of what the Cowboys trotted out at QB before Romo came along.

Actually, it's just the opposite. These stats show where Romo doesn't LOSE games by himself. Hasn't that been the anti-Romo mantra all along?

When Dallas wins, it's a "team" win.
When Dallas loses, it's a "Romo" loss.

One of the biggest points of disagreement is the role of the QB when the team wins or loses. For those that believe it is a total team effort, the QB plays no bigger role in the win as any other position. I disagree. Common sense shows that a QB has the hell in his hands every offensive play. If Romo throws a great pass for the winning TD, he should get the credit. He should get the credit for the late game interceptions that prevents the offense from scoring and winning the game too. Every position contributes , but the contributions are not equal. The whole offense flows through the QB position . The elite QBs runs the offense with very few mistakes.

 

[PA Cowboy Fan]

I wonder if that was the best played game by a QB in NFL history in a losing effort.
Staubach seemed to think so.

Leave it to Tony to do so

 

[zack]

One reason that those god-awful interceptions sticks with people is that Romo tends to make these mistakes in high profile games against the better teams in the league.

Every game is a high profile game because it is the Dallas Cowboys! If it is on at night it is usually the one of the most watched games of the season, fact.

 

[zack]

Actually, it's just the opposite. These stats show where Romo doesn't LOSE games by himself. Hasn't that been the anti-Romo mantra all along?

When Dallas wins, it's a "team" win.
When Dallas loses, it's a "Romo" loss.

I think people can see when he was to blame for losses. But referencing the game that everyone is mentioning, the Skins game from 2012. He played bad, no doubt. But when your defense gives up a 200 yard rusher and the opposing QB throws the ball 10 times and wins, what do you expect?

 

[jnday]

Every game is a high profile game because it is the Dallas Cowboys! If it is on at night it is usually the one of the most watched games of the season, fact.

Remember the turnovers against the Jets when the Ryan brothers was hyped up so much? That high profile game had a Romo fumble and a late interception picked off by Revis that started opening my eyes to Romo's faults.

 

[BrassCowboy]

And if we're taking the most important QB stat of wins out of the equation. We should also take out the yardage when a WR makes an amazing run after the catch or a DB slips or a missed tackle.

so do we add that win/loss stat to every individual players stat? you guys act like the QB is the only one who wins or loses games. Forget WRs dropping balls, or the offensive line leaking like a river, or a rb who falls at the sound of defensive linemen, OR THE FACT THAT OUR OFFENSE HAS TO SCORE EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION JUST TO STAY EVEN WITH OUR OPPONENT BECAUSE THE DEFENSE CANNOT STOP THE WORST OF OFFENSES.

getting a little tired of these ignorant posts who solely blames a qb but does not realize there are 21 other players playing on the field.

 

[jnday]

I think people can see when he was to blame for losses. But referencing the game that everyone is mentioning, the Skins game from 2012. He played bad, no doubt. But when your defense gives up a 200 yard rusher and the opposing QB throws the ball 10 times and wins, what do you expect?

Even with a bad defensive effort, the Cowboys should have won the game anyway. The interception took care of any chance that the Cowboys had of winning. Even when the defense plays bad, I think that Romo should win some if these big games when the score is close. He hasn't won any of the high pressure games against good teams with a 4th quarter comeback. Them are usually lost due to turnovers.

 

[jnday]

so do we add that win/loss stat to every individual players stat? you guys act like the QB is the only one who wins or loses games. Forget WRs dropping balls, or the offensive line leaking like a river, or a rb who falls at the sound of defensive linemen, OR THE FACT THAT OUR OFFENSE HAS TO SCORE EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION JUST TO STAY EVEN WITH OUR OPPONENT BECAUSE THE DEFENSE CANNOT STOP THE WORST OF OFFENSES.

getting a little tired of these ignorant posts who solely blames a qb but does not realize there are 21 other players playing on the field.

As I pointed out earlier, is there any other position that has as much influence on the score as the QB? The QB should shoulder more of the blame. That is the nature of the position and the game for that matter.

 

[zack]

Even with a bad defensive effort, the Cowboys should have won the game anyway. The interception took care of any chance that the Cowboys had of winning. Even when the defense plays bad, I think that Romo should win some if these big games when the score is close. He hasn't won any of the high pressure games against good teams with a 4th quarter comeback. Them are usually lost due to turnovers.

Well, in that same year against NO he played lights out and the defense did what it did and we lost. And this was in the 4th quarter and equally an important game. If I am not mistaken, he threw a pretty clutch TD pass late in that game. Pretty much at the start of the Bengals that year, every game was a must win.

But we shouldn't just excuse the defense for their performance against Wash. If I'm not mistaken, the defense could have stopped Wash late in the game after the TO. There was a bone headed penalty from Hatcher.

Until this defense steps up, we can expect more of the same.

 

[peplaw06]

You are cherry-picking one line at a time from my post and trying to argue about points that I haven't made. That is weak, even for a lawyer. I think stats will back me up when I say that a turnover in the final minutes of a game doesn't help the team's winning percentage when they need to score to take the lead. In other words, stupid interceptions prevents the team from scoring the needed TD that would win .the game. I don't think that is hard to grasp. Romo has thrown more than one late game interception that has prevented the team from winning. Actually, the list is rather lengthy.

The post of yours that I quoted was one sentence. How is that cherry-picking?

If your point is that a turnover in the final minutes of a game "doesn't help" a team's winning percentage when they need a score, well no ****. And of course Romo has thrown more than one late game INT... but that doesn't tell us anything. You have to compare it to his contemporaries to see where he ranks in order for it to be useful. Neither you or KJJ have done any of that. All you've done is throw out conclusory statements that have no context with QBs across the league. You can't come in to a statistical debate and throw out generalities and think that's gonna get you very far.

It would be like me saying Dez Bryant's finger falling out of bounds in that Giants loss at home a couple of years back didn't help the team's winning percentage. And even though he's tearing the league up statistically, his drops and fumbles and that play prevent us from winning, and therefore he shouldn't be considered a top WR in the league. I wouldn't argue that because it provides no context of his performance with other WRs in the league. If it was something I really wanted to argue, then I would "research" the performances of other WRs and see how he stacked up.

What you and KJJ end up with is a standard that no QB can throw late game (or "stupid") interceptions or they don't fit your definition of a good QB. The problem with that is that no QB in the league can meet that standard.

 

[EST_1986]

so do we add that win/loss stat to every individual players stat? you guys act like the QB is the only one who wins or loses games. Forget WRs dropping balls, or the offensive line leaking like a river, or a rb who falls at the sound of defensive linemen, OR THE FACT THAT OUR OFFENSE HAS TO SCORE EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION JUST TO STAY EVEN WITH OUR OPPONENT BECAUSE THE DEFENSE CANNOT STOP THE WORST OF OFFENSES.

getting a little tired of these ignorant posts who solely blames a qb but does not realize there are 21 other players playing on the field.

QB is most important.

 

[peplaw06]

With all the drivel you just posted not once did you attempt to prove me wrong. You haven't posted a single thing since you entered this discussion that proves anything I've said wrong. All you're doing is name calling and disagreeing. I could list a huge number of regular season and postseason games that proves a QB's TD to turnover ratio is the biggest determining factor in winning games but I'm not about to waste my time with someone who isn't interested in keeping the discussion civil.

The QB who throws the most TD's and turns it over less their team usually wins the big games. That's a fact I can prove over and over again. If you don't think I couldn't provide a wealth of games to prove it you're kidding yourself. In 2010 Roethlisberger's TD to turnover ratio was 2-2 in the SB vs Aaron Rodgers whose ratio was 3-0. I could bury you with games and numbers to prove my point so go do some of your own research if you think I'm wrong instead of showing to sling mud.

I can't prove you wrong, because you haven't given any substance. All I can say is that your thesis is incomplete.

And if you "could" list a huge number of regular season and post season games that proves your thesis, then why not do it? Oh, you don't want to waste your time? Then I'm not going to waste any more time giving your opinion any credibility. See how that works?

If you can prove it, prove it. If you can't then shut up. One game -- or even 5 -- doesn't prove anything.