Richard Seymour or Marcus Spears?

[dbair1967]

Spears is younger and will be cheaper, but Richard Seymour is definitely more of a catalytic player, even with his age.

Increases our pass rush out of the base 3-4. And I'm sure that Seymour can fit in the middle in the nickel.

But what do I know. I'd still want Wilfork or Hampton to replace Pro Bowl NT Ratliff so we could move him to the outside.

No and definitely no. Its time to quit the enfatuation with big name players from other teams.

Seymour did not have a good year this season for Oakland. He had sacks in only 2 of the 16 games he played in (all starts) and he stayed on the field the vast majority of downs. Everyone acts like he is a supreme playmaker and he is not. Only 2 times in his career has he had more than 5 sacks in season, and thats despite playing the vast majority of downs. He is not as goo vs the run as Spears is, and he is older.

And no way do I want Wilfat or Hampton replacing Ratliff at NT, niether of those guys is anywhere near the player Ratliff is now.

 

[TheSport78]

No and definitely no. Its time to quit the enfatuation with big name players from other teams.

Seymour did not have a good year this season for Oakland. He had sacks in only 2 of the 16 games he played in (all starts) and he stayed on the field the vast majority of downs. Everyone acts like he is a supreme playmaker and he is not. Only 2 times in his career has he had more than 5 sacks in season, and thats despite playing the vast majority of downs. He is not as goo vs the run as Spears is, and he is older.

And no way do I want Wilfat or Hampton replacing Ratliff at NT, niether of those guys is anywhere near the player Ratliff is now.

Stopped reading right there.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Youth, youth, youth...

rings rings rings..

 

[Bob Sacamano]

rings rings rings..

chains, chains, chains

my gold chains

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Seymour is just as good against the run as Spears. He's a better pass rusher. Multiple championships. Winner.


and lol at the people saying Spears is cheaper. It's uncapped and if I was Jerry, I'd be happy to pay Seymour. He's got the money.

3 years 27 mil. 17 guarenteed.

Let's do it Jerry!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[SLATEmosphere]

chains, chains, chains

my gold chains

*** *** ***

 

[Preacha Mane]

i never said he would make a good olb, i said for those that think he would bc i had miss read an earlier post

 

[CF74]

Did you really just say Seymour more a 4-3 DE and not a good fit for a 3-4 end?

A 6-6/310 OLB?

Mods please, can we do something?

Whoops I missed that part, I think I flipped the #'s when I read that...:

 

[CF74]

i never said he would make a good olb, i said for those that think he would bc i had miss read an earlier post

No that's not what they are saying. You said he wouldn't be a good 3-4 END, which is what he actually plays...

 

[ThreeSportStar80]

Spears, younger and actually getting better.

 

[jobberone]

I like Bowen a lot, and I think Hatcher gets tendered but may lose his job to a rookie DL (hopefully). I understand what you're saying with the base defense, but what about when we play a team who gets pass happy? The NFL is turning into a passing league, and you can never have enough pass rushers, whether it's from a DL or LB. Maybe Spears just hasn't gotten enough opportunities to rush the passer? But I'm worried about the contract Spears is going to demand. I hope I'm wrong but he seems like the type of player to pack it in after he gets his big contract (see Roy Williams the safety, Ken Hamlin, Marion Barber, etc).

Like I said, Seymour is an upgrade over Spears in the pass rush department. I just don't think you're going to see that many more sacks in our scheme where DEs are engaging and playing run first on non-obvious pass downs. I'm not saying you aren't going to see anything more out of Seymour. That would be a silly statement.

 

[jobberone]

I understand that Spears does a great job in the base defense when his responsibility is to hold the OT, but when he gets an opportunity to rush the passer when a possible stunt is called, he's almost non-effective. He's a one-dimensional, solid player but will never make the Pro Bowl or have a double-digit sack season. The guy has 8 sacks in his entire CAREER.

I don't agree he's totally one dimensional but his pressures and sacks speak for themselves. And our DEs bull rush more than anything when not in obvious passing downs. When Bowen and Hatcher are in the game they are playing pass first. I do agree that our starters at DE are never going to be great pass rushers. And there is nothing wrong with wanting to create more havoc with a stronger player (one who pressures better on passing downs). I'm all for it as long as you get the necessary bang for the buck and it doesn't create weaker areas on the team somewhere else.

 

[jobberone]

Those are some solid points and there are many things to consider here. For one, Jerry sees us prime for a run right now, so does he try to bring in an impact player in FA? Or does he feel like the pieces are already in place? As much as I would like to have Seymour, I have a hard time believing the Raiduhs let him go after paying a kings ransom to get him on their team.

Another possible option would be to bring in Hampton or Wilfork, let Spears walk and slide the Rat over to the end. I just can't see Wade doing this either.

Then there's the draft. If a big fella with a motor falls to us in the 1st few rounds that might be our best option. Spears is solid against the run and you don't know what you got, till it's gone. I hope he doesn't demand a ridiculous payday, but if he does I will sadly have to say bye bye. Personally I'm hoping we draft somebody..

We definitely could get more of a pass rush relative to our starting DEs. I don't think you're going to see a Doomsday effect at DE with our scheme. And again I'm talking about the base defense. But we could do better. It just depends on how much it costs.

And Ratliff has said himself he's not a DE in our scheme. He gets maximum benefit right where he is now since he gets to play gaps. If he had to play st8 up as a NT then he would not be a superior player. That's not his strengths.

 

[Mansta54]

I'll take Spears. He's worth an Olshansky type contract.

This......

 

[CCBoy]

Spears once came out and stated that he would be willing to at least give some sort of 'home-town' discount to the Cowboys. Let's just see what Dallas is thinking about his skillset put against cap implications...if I were to just wish, then why not both Pepper and Seymour? Now that would make for some interesting rotation...

 

[The Realist]

Spears once came out and stated that he would be willing to at least give some sort of 'home-town' discount to the Cowboys. Let's just see what Dallas is thinking about his skillset put against cap implications...if I were to just wish, then why not both Pepper and Seymour? Now that would make for some interesting rotation...

Spears also said he felt Ware could have gotten 100 mill if he really fought for it, but that showed DeMarcus wasn't greedy and wanted mgmt to have money to sign others.

 

[BAT]

I forget who and where the stat was posted, but someone had a history of the DE's in Wade's scheme with sacks in a season. All of those DE's had great sack totals, where Spears only has 5.5 sacks since Wade came to Dallas in 07'. But basically Spears is a perfect fit for Parcells' 3-4 scheme, where you were only responsible for one gap and allowing linebackers to make the plays. In Wade's scheme it's a multiple gap scheme with a lot more stunting and blitzing, allowing the defensive line to make more plays. Spears hasn't really adjusted to Wade's scheme, and may be better suited as a DT in a 4-3 scheme or a DE in a one gap 3-4 scheme.

Here is the post you are referring to. Jobberone is wrong. He loves to make the claim that the Cowboys' DEs are primarily supposed to "cover their man", probably intending to say that they have 2 gap responsibility (but who knows w/the guy).

No matter how many times you repeat this, it does not make it true. Wade plays a one gapping 3-4 and his DEs have great opportunities to rush the passer. Luis Castillo is not nearly the talent that Richard Seymour is, and Castillo averaged 5.5 sacks in his two seasons under Wade. Playing DE.

Other DE averages under Wade:

Patrick Kearney 8.5 sacks
Bruce Smith 10.8 sacks
Shane Dronett 6.25 sacks
Reggie White 19 sacks
Jumpy Geathers 6.25 sacks


If a player has ANY talent to rush the passer, Wade will bring it out_in spades, no matter the position. Your argument is entirely specious.

And for those that equate Spears re-signing to Olshanky's, I say good luck. Spears is solid, but likely never more than that. Why does a team need TWO Olshanky's? Re-signing Spears, Hatcher & Bowen will probably be pretty close to signing Seymour for a year. But the production will definitely vary. Seymour with either Bowen, the PS kid or a rook backup will be more productive than the triumvirate of better than average. Seymour's sack numbers are astronomical compared to Spears', but it is the pressure that Seymour would bring that is more important. This is pressure that opposing QBs would see on EVERY down, not just on 3rd down (when Bowen/Hatcher play).

I like Spears. He is solid, but he is NOT a better fit for Wade's scheme. Spears is likely one of Wade's LEAST productive pass rushing DEs. EVER. And Seymour is a better run stopper than Spears' is a pass rusher.

And the guys who think Seymour is not capable of playing 3-4 DE, or a better fit at 3-4 OLB, I only have one thing to say: Call 911

Seriously, you need help. Lots of it.

 

[SLATEmosphere]

Spears also said he felt Ware could have gotten 100 mill if he really fought for it, but that showed DeMarcus wasn't greedy and wanted mgmt to have money to sign others.

Demarcus is literally a once in a lifetime player and person.

 

[BAT]

The Olshansky and Spears comparison is a good one. Both athletic guys expected to be better pass rushers coming out of school but ending up one dimensional (ie 2 downs only) "run stoppers" instead.

Olshanky averages 2 sacks/season under Wade. While Spears averages 1.8 sacks/season. Both have played 3 seasons for Wade.

 

[TheSport78]

Here is the post you are referring to. Jobberone is wrong. He loves to make the claim that the Cowboys' DEs are primarily supposed to "cover their man", probably intending to say that they have 2 gap responsibility (but who knows w/the guy).



And for those that equate Spears re-signing to Olshanky's, I say good luck. Spears is solid, but likely never more than that. Why does a team need TWO Olshanky's? Re-signing Spears, Hatcher & Bowen will probably be pretty close to signing Seymour for a year. But the production will definitely vary. Seymour with either Bowen, the PS kid or a rook backup will be more productive than the triumvirate of better than average. Seymour's sack numbers are astronomical compared to Spears', but it is the pressure that Seymour would bring that is more important. This is pressure that opposing QBs would see on EVERY down, not just on 3rd down (when Bowen/Hatcher play).

I like Spears. He is solid, but he is NOT a better fit for Wade's scheme. Spears is likely one of Wade's LEAST productive pass rushing DEs. EVER. And Seymour is a better run stopper than Spears' is a pass rusher.

And the guys who think Seymour is not capable of playing 3-4 DE, or a better fit at 3-4 OLB, I only have one thing to say: Call 911

Seriously, you need help. Lots of it.

Haha amazing post. Thanks for finding those stats.