Richie Incognito suspended indefinitely...

[RoyTheHammer]

http://nfl.si.com/2013/11/07/jonathan-martins-miami-dolphins-lawyer-statement-verbal-physical-abuse/

the latest.

Getting uglier if possible

Just wow..

I vote Incognito for the death penalty.. he seems like the poster boy for capital punishment.

As for Martin, it does seem to fit with the rest of the testimony by players and the time frame that he was trying to work through it with guys and make friends to try to end the bullying, and maybe that is why he waited this amount of time to come out with everything. Only so much one person can take, i can completely understand that.

That would also fit with teammates thinking he was friends with Incognito, because he was trying to be to end the bullying.

Also, seems like other teammates are involved in the bullying here now, so could be them trying to cover their butts, too.

 

[dogberry]

Do we get the vote on the death penalty for other players?

 

[joseephuss]

Shy and soft are NOT the same thing.

No they are not the same. Soft is a made up label and excuse for someone who just isn't good enough. Martin is a shy guy and because he isn't playing at the level the Dolphins envisioned when they drafted him he gets labeled soft. Had he played at a high level they wouldn't call him soft, but he would still have the same quiet, introverted personality. Just like Lett who outperformed his 7th round draft status. Lett was shy and produced, so he didn't get a soft label. If Lett didn't produce you can guaranteed he would have had the soft label as well.

I don't think Martin is soft. I think he is a guy who just isn't good enough to produce at the NFL level. Happens to lots of players. There are plenty of guys who yell, have big personalities and are considered tough guys who aren't good enough for the NFL as well.

 

[RoyTheHammer]

Do we get the vote on the death penalty for other players?

You can do whatever you'd like within reason.. im pretty sure.

I just know this world would be a better place without people like Incognito.

 

[TellerMorrow34]

I'm sorry but I'm just completely blown away by a grown man being bullied.

I'm not saying what any one did here is right, or wrong, so please don't take it as such but I just find it incredibly hard to believe a grown man would be getting bullied or allow themselves to be bullied.

I haven't been bullied since elementary school and it's not because I'm the biggest, or the baddest, dude on the planet. I certainly am not and never have been but I dang sure stood up for myself, no matter what, and that eliminated bullying. I just don't see how an adult allows themselves to be bullied. I just really don't.

 

[JD_KaPow]

I don't think the "victim blaming" card can be played here. As a matter of fact, it is probably rarely played when it comes to bullying. Most people hate bullies and bullying and are quick to feel compassion for bullying victims.

Most of the time bullying victims are smaller, weaker, older, less popular, .. whatever. So most people have the tendency to sympathize with the victim and have disdain for the bully.

And I think that was the case initially with RI and Martin. Most spoke out against RI.

It is only as more facts come out, and more people associated with this issue speak out that people are now questioning what actually happened here.

Most still think RI is a complete jerk, .. this is not victim blaming.

And while it is possible to be bullied, .. how you react to being bullied would determine how bad the bullying got, and how long it went on.

That is where I wonder about Martin.

Obviously RI is and idiot on many levels, .. but how it escalated that far and went on that long is a reflection on Martin too.

Your second quote here is pretty much the definition of victim blaming.

 

[JD_KaPow]

As usual, Mike Tanier nails it:

Martin was a valuable starter and an excellent prospect up until the moment the Dolphins lined him up next to Incognito at the start of camp after weeks of Incognito's brand of "motivation." He was a wreck from the moment the first training camp air horn blew. All of the tough-guy nonsense turned a second-round pick into a sled, allowed a former goon to revert to his worst impulses, and made a potentially decent offensive line terrible. Every team's goal is to create a great team, not perpetuate a manly culture; where these objectives don't intersect, the first one takes absolute precedence, no matter how many manly 27-year olds disagree. Eradicating the Incognito crap makes as much sense from a dollar-and-cents, X-and-O standpoint as from a human decency standpoint.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/63768728/

 

[WV Cowboy]

You can call it anything you want, .. but I don't see it as victim blaming.

What RI did was wrong and will always be wrong. Nobody deserves to be bullied, .. ever.

Martin did not deserve to be bullied and did not do anything that would justify it.

He is a victim, it is not his fault.

How he responded is a different discussion.

Be careful not to hurt yourself as you get down from your high horse.

 

[sacase]

What I don't understand is how people can differentiate between standing up for yourself and fighting. Further more I can't comprehend how people refuse to stand up for themselves.

 

[Plankton]

As usual, Mike Tanier nails it:



http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/63768728/

I don't know that he nailed anything here - it's all conjecture.

Martin didn't line up next to Incognito until the seventh game of his rookie season - Jake Long started at LT until he tore his triceps. Martin was starting at RT, and moved after the injury.

No one truly knows what happened here. The only information is being provided by Martin's camp. I'm not defending Incognito in any way, as I thought he was a disaster when in college who I wouldn't have touched with a 10 foot pole when he was draft eligible. However, we are only getting one point of view here, and zero context in any of it.

I won't make any judgment on this until all of the facts are in.

 

[sacase]

I can't post it, but I saw on another board that Mike Silver said on twitter that the RI camp was going to release equally damning texts from Martin. Can someone grab that since I am at work.

 

[AbeBeta]

You can call it anything you want, .. but I don't see it as victim blaming.

What RI did was wrong and will always be wrong. Nobody deserves to be bullied, .. ever.

Martin did not deserve to be bullied and did not do anything that would justify it.

He is a victim, it is not his fault.

How he responded is a different discussion.

Be careful not to hurt yourself as you get down from your high horse.

Wow -- you really don't see how suggesting the victim should have handled things differently is blaming the victim? You pretty much put it on Martin for letting it go on so long. That's blaming the victim, trying to parse that as "a different discussion" is a ridiculous justification of your victim-blaming attitude.

You've got the highest horse in this argument, WV.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Wow -- you really don't see how suggesting the victim should have handled things differently is blaming the victim? You pretty much put it on Martin for letting it go on so long. That's blaming the victim, trying to parse that as "a different discussion" is a ridiculous justification of your victim-blaming attitude.

You've got the highest horse in this argument, WV.

Blaming the victim would have been saying he deserved it, .. or that he did something ahead of time to bring it on. Blaming the victim would have been saying that Martin had done something that justified the bullying. That is blaming the victim, .. and that is not what I have said.

Did you not read the first four lines in my post that you quoted? I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[AbeBeta]

Blaming the victim would have been saying he deserved it, .. or that he did something ahead of time to bring it on. Blaming the victim would have been saying that Martin had done something that justified the bullying. That is blaming the victim, .. and that is not what I have said.

Did you not read the first four lines in my post that you quoted? I don't know what else to tell you.

BS. Complete and TOTAL BS. Blaming the victim right there plain as day down below. I read your post -- all it tells me is that you don't know what blaming the victim entails.

And while it is possible to be bullied, .. how you react to being bullied would determine how bad the bullying got, and how long it went on.

That is where I wonder about Martin.

Obviously RI is and idiot on many levels, .. but how it escalated that far and went on that long is a reflection on Martin too.

 

[WV Cowboy]

BS. Complete and TOTAL BS. Blaming the victim right there plain as day down below. I read your post -- all it tells me is that you don't know what blaming the victim entails.

I have not blamed the victim for the fact that RI bullied him.

You can shout BS and twist my words, but I have never blamed Martin or said that Martin was at fault for the fact that he was bullied.

That would be victim blaming.

Not sure anyone could ever say that a bullying victim was to blame. It is always the fault of the bully.

 

[AbeBeta]

I have not blamed the victim for the fact that RI bullied him.

You can shout BS and twist my words, but I have never blamed Martin or said that Martin was at fault for the fact that he was bullied.

That would be victim blaming.

Not sure anyone could ever say that a bullying victim was to blame. It is always the fault of the bully.

You have blamed him for how he responded and how it escalated.

You seem to define blaming the victim very narrowly as it having to do with blaming Martin for the initial victimization. That's flat out ignorant. It frightens me that you actually believe you aren't blaming the victim - of course, that is how victim blaming gets perpetuated - people adamantly justify their blaming the victim by engaging in ridiculous beliefs that they aren't actually engaging in victim blaming.

 

[WV Cowboy]

that is how victim blaming gets perpetuated - people adamantly justify their blaming the victim by engaging in ridiculous beliefs that they aren't actually engaging in victim blaming.

LOL

I guess you will just have to live with this, because I am not blaming Martin.

I have said that in many ways, in many posts in this thread.

Martin is the victim and it is not his fault that RI bullied him.

 

[AbeBeta]

LOL

I guess you will just have to live with this, because I am not blaming Martin.

I have said that in many ways, in many posts in this thread.

Martin is the victim and it is not his fault that RI bullied him.

Yeah -- you aren't blaming Martin. Except for the fact that you blame him for how long it went on and how bad it got. Not blaming him at all.

 

[WV Cowboy]

Yeah -- you aren't blaming Martin. Except for the fact that you blame him for how long it went on and how bad it got. Not blaming him at all.

Disagreeing with how it was handled, or thinking how I might have handled it, is not blaming anyone for anything.

Bullying is wrong, .. but how it is handled is neither right nor wrong, because each person would/could handle it differently.

I would not have responded the way he did. But that is just me.

I have never said he was right or wrong, .. nor have I blamed him for anything.

If you want to pull the 'victim blaming' card on this, I guess that is up to you.

I don't blame Martin for anything.

 

[AbeBeta]

Disagreeing with how it was handled, or thinking how I might have handled it, is not blaming anyone for anything.

Bullying is wrong, .. but how it is handled is neither right nor wrong, because each person would/could handle it differently.

I would not have responded the way he did. But that is just me.

I have never said he was right or wrong, .. nor have I blamed him for anything.

If you want to pull the 'victim blaming' card on this, I guess that is up to you.

I don't blame Martin for anything.

Really, your own words totally contradict this

And while it is possible to be bullied, .. how you react to being bullied would determine how bad the bullying got, and how long it went on.

That is where I wonder about Martin.

Obviously RI is and idiot on many levels, .. but how it escalated that far and went on that long is a reflection on Martin too.