Rodgers, Brady, Brees, Manning?

[DFWJC]

Uh, no, you put Ben at the same level as Michael Vick. Vick doesn't even belong on the level of Romo or Rivers. Rivers I think personally is better than Rodgers, even as just pure passer. What Rivers did with the WRs he had, without his Superstar TE for most part and lack of true Running game, is amazing. He had more Playoffs wins than Rodgers so far. ONly thing Rodgers now will have is SB appearance and if he wins it, a Ring.

For that I Guess he probably has to be put above Rivers, but I think if Rivers has similar team as Rodgers, Rivers probably shatters all kinds of records.

Right now, Romo has to below Rodgers due to lack of enough playoff wins, whether I like it or not. At the begining of this Playoff run, I didn't think so, but now, it is clear. But it is year to year, game to game league.

Fans live too much in the moment. Everyone is the greatest or JAG. Right now, Rodgers is the most in thing to be best QB for quite a few fans. Thats the way it goes I guess.

I said I didn't know where to put Vick because his post-prison body of work was too short. So based in his preposterously good year this year, I stuck him at the end of that sentance with a footnote. So he would be 8th or so iof you were splitting hairs.

I'm not going sit on the roof tops arguing who is better between Rivers Rodgers or Big Ben. But 30 people in a room and 10 each would pick one. This includes NFL coaches too, not just chat rooms with people who think they know more than everyone else.

I'll give you this. I think ben does deserve to be seperated slightly. The more I watch him the more he looks like a player who stats will never fully do justice to. Yesterday was impressive inthat regard.

I think right now they are all ahead (slightly or greatly) depending on your opinion of Romo. But even that is not worth arguing to me.

But I think Romo is above the next tier of Ryan et al.

These are just my opinions. If you wish disagree, fine.

 

[aikemirv]

That's BS! It's always the team Romo plays for that causes him not to succeed.

If he had the poise and leadership like the other QB's mentioned in big games he'd be put on a pedestal but he can't get his team as far as those other QB's. Go back to 08 against Pittsburgh when Romo turned the ball over 3 times in a tight game.

While Roethlisberger was making plays Romo was in the middle of a meltdown.

That was a team meltdown in 08. You keep bringing that up though. That great defense allowed 2 80 yard runs against Baltimore as Romo keeps trying to bring the team back. You forget that part don't you? Then they had the total meltdown against Philly. But keep blaming that on Romo if it makes you feel better. Romo has had to carry this team since 2007, these other players you mention have teams around them. You have the audacity to take Romo to task for the Minnesota loss and the NY Giants losses in the playoffs when the line gets run through like a sieve. Whne Romo has the perfect pass to an open Crayton who stops his route!

Rodgers folded in the second half, win or lose, if Romo does that he would be beaten to death!

 

[SDCowboy]

That Packers game should show the differences between the two teams. Romo can do his usual 300+ yards and 2-3TDs and the Cowboys can lose. Rogers can throw for 50% 0TDs 2INTs and stink it up and the Packers win the NFC Championship game.

 

[perrykemp]

That Packers game should show the differences between the two teams. Romo can do his usual 300+ yards and 2-3TDs and the Cowboys can lose. Rogers can throw for 50% 0TDs 2INTs and stink it up and the Packers win the NFC Championship game.

I know the Packer's are 2nd the the Steelers statistically defensively, however, I think the Packers have the best defense in the NFL.

When you have a 3 Pro-Bowlers in the backfield AND Sam Shields it gives you so many options defensively...

 

[Stautner]

When people define Rodgers are they really going to hang their hat on each individual game? Rodgers was fallible in THIS game, so he really isn't that good? Come on folks, that's ridiculous. You would be screaming about how unfair it is to rate Romo on an individual game where he didn't play up to his ability, so how is it fair to do that with Rodgers. The fact is he was great in the regular season and has been great in the playoffs 3 out of 4 times, and the 4th time wasn't horrible, just below his normal standard. Your expectation for Romo isn't to be at his peak every single game, and that wasn't the expectation for Aikman either, beecause we all know that isn't possible. The key is to find a way to get it done even when the A-game isn't there, and that's what Rodegers and the Packers did.

 

[Shneek814]

Gimme Rodgers over Romo allllllllllll day!

 

[percyhoward]

Hate the person Rothelisberger is, but to deny he is an Elite Qbs, right up there with Brady/Manning/Brees, is truly foolish. PERIOD!

Rodgers is elite. I think Roethlisberger is a good player on a great team.

Roethlisberger's Ratings in Playoff Games: Pittsburgh's W-L Record
Poor Game (lower than 70.0): W 3 L 0
Below Avg Game (70.1-85.0): W 1 L 2
Above Avg Game (85.1-100.0): W 3 L 0
Great Game (higher than 100.0): W 3 L 0

Roethlisberger has put up a 100 rating or better 3 times in 12 playoff starts.

6 times he's been above average, and the Steelers are 6-0. 6 times he's been below average, and the Steelers are 4-2. (The average team would be lucky to go 2-4).

 

[TNCowboy]

Rodgers is elite. I think Roethlisberger is a good player on a great team.

Roethlisberger's Ratings in Playoff Games: Pittsburgh's W-L Record
Poor Game (lower than 70.0): W 3 L 0
Below Avg Game (70.1-85.0): W 1 L 2
Above Avg Game (85.1-100.0): W 3 L 0
Great Game (higher than 100.0): W 3 L 0

Roethlisberger has put up a 100 rating or better 3 times in 12 playoff starts.

6 times he's been above average, and the Steelers are 6-0. 6 times he's been below average, and the Steelers are 4-2. (The average team would be lucky to go 2-4).

He plays in a stadium where weather is almost always an issue (look at kickers' FG % vs. the rest of the league), in a tougher conference. To judge him based on QB rating is silly....even though his QB rating for playoffs is quite good.

Just like the 3rd down play yesterday at the end, you can't always quantify what he does. He's one of the best in the game and the best in close playoff games. His clutch play over the course of his career is without equal.

 

[percyhoward]

To judge him based on QB rating is silly....even though his QB rating for playoffs is quite good.

85.4 for his playoff career is 7 points below his regular season rating.

Just as a frame of reference for playoff ratings, there's Rodgers (113.0), Brees (102.0), or if you want a larger sample size than Big Ben's 12 games, there's Warner (102.8 in 13 games), or a huge sample size, Montana (95.6 in 23 games).

 

[birdwells1]

85.4 for his playoff career is 7 points below his regular season rating.

Just as a frame of reference for playoff ratings, there's Rodgers (113.0), Brees (102.0), or if you want a larger sample size than Big Ben's 12 games, there's Warner (102.8 in 13 games), or a huge sample size, Montana (95.6 in 23 games).

You forgot one stat, 2 SBs and numerous clutch plays. That 3rd down play won't show up any different in the rating system because it doesn't take the clutch factor in account .

 

[DFWJC]

85.4 for his playoff career is 7 points below his regular season rating.

Just as a frame of reference for playoff ratings, there's Rodgers (113.0), Brees (102.0), or if you want a larger sample size than Big Ben's 12 games, there's Warner (102.8 in 13 games), or a huge sample size, Montana (95.6 in 23 games).

No denying that Big Ben falls short in passer rating in the playoffs.

He has put up some historically horrible games and seen his team still win. He's also made a Super Bowl game-winning drive that few can match.

I do think his play transends (to some degree) passer ratings....I mean, he had a freaking 35.5 passer rating this week. lol

I think both he and Rodgers played better than their passer rating yesterday. Rushing TDs, rushing yards, blitz escapes, etc don't help the passer rating much.
Have to give credit to those Bears and Jets defenses too.

 

[SSGMIKE]

Really... Are we talking about the same ROMO that went 1-6 this year and couldn't score against Commanders to start the season off? The difference that Romo would get killed by that Packers and Steelers Defensive this year...... Romo don't have the arm strength to get to the next level, unless he get another soft schedule and play the Eagles at the end of the season to get in? and have to win in December again.... Ah I forgot he only did that one time in his carrerr.....

That Packers game should show the differences between the two teams. Romo can do his usual 300+ yards and 2-3TDs and the Cowboys can lose. Rogers can throw for 50% 0TDs 2INTs and stink it up and the Packers win the NFC Championship game.

 

[CATCH17]

You gotta give Big Ben some credit. He's a good player and makes timely plays...

With that said if he were a Cowboy he'd have 0 rings.

 

[superpunk]

Really... Are we talking about the same ROMO that went 1-6 this year and couldn't score against Commanders to start the season off?

1-4.

It could be 1 and 5 as starter, but before he was knocked out against NY he was 5 of 7 with a TD and a 124 rating so lolfacts and such carry on.

 

[CATCH17]

I don't think his style translates into playing good defense.


Look at his Rookie year for example. They carried his butt there.


He's a step above bus driver imo. But if you got a defense that can back you he is effective.



I mean the guy completed 3 second half passes yesterday and made an impulse throw that turned the ball over.

If Romo makes that same impulse throw there is a good chance our defense lets them walk right down and get some points.

 

[percyhoward]

He has put up some historically horrible games and seen his team still win. He's also made a Super Bowl game-winning drive that few can match.

Made "game-winning," of course, by a TD which his defense scored to end the first half. Just look at the way the Steelers played that 2nd half yesterday: 21 runs, 5 passes (and one of those was intercepted, and another INT was dropped). It's hard to put him in the "elite" category when they're not putting it on his arm.

 

[TNCowboy]

85.4 for his playoff career is 7 points below his regular season rating.

Just as a frame of reference for playoff ratings, there's Rodgers (113.0), Brees (102.0), or if you want a larger sample size than Big Ben's 12 games, there's Warner (102.8 in 13 games), or a huge sample size, Montana (95.6 in 23 games).

Still just #s. There are no #s for say, eluding a huge sack and throwing a pass away. Or making an accurate throw which bounces off the receivers hands into a defender's. Or passing for a short gain with players draped all over you. Or making a short pass on the run for a huge first down. You listed all dome QBs and good weather QBs, except for Rodgers, who played his first playoff game in nasty weather yesterday. Big difference in playing in NE, Baltimore or Pittsburgh vs. in a dome in Atlanta or in Arizona.

Rodgers is a fantastic QB. I think in 3 or so years he'll be acknowledged as the best in the game. But look at the difference playing in the brutal weather yesterday vs. the game in Atlanta last week. And he's statistically the best cold weather QB since he came into the league.

Roethlisberger's QB rating in the playoffs is essentially the same as Brady and Manning. Fact is, when his team has had to have it, no QB has made more plays than Roethlisberger has since he came into the league. It's no coincidence that the Steelers were a good team for most of the decade before he got there, but never could get over the hump, and then he shows up and they're on the verge of their 3rd SB in 7 years. No # can define elite in the way that does.

 

[DFWJC]

Made "game-winning," of course, by a TD which his defense scored to end the first half. Just look at the way the Steelers played that 2nd half yesterday: 21 runs, 5 passes (and one of those was intercepted, and another INT was dropped). It's hard to put him in the "elite" category when they're not putting it on his arm.

Oh, make no mistake. I think Ben has been (huh?) one of the all-time fortunate QBs when it comes to winning Super Bowls. And I very much remember that end of the half turnover---extremely painful to watch for me.

He has had plenty of clutch plays though.

 

[percyhoward]

Roethlisberger's QB rating in the playoffs is essentially the same as Brady and Manning. Fact is, when his team has had to have it, no QB has made more plays than Roethlisberger has since he came into the league. It's no coincidence that the Steelers were a good team for most of the decade before he got there, but never could get over the hump, and then he shows up and they're on the verge of their 3rd SB in 7 years. No # can define elite in the way that does.

Two things.

Manning and Brady have had great regular seasons, but their playoff ratings aren't that great. Remember, Manning's SB year, he wasn't very good in the playoffs, and Brady (who, like Ben, thrived with a great defense) hasn't done much since the game before the 07 Super Bowl.

The other thing is, Roethlisberger showed up the same time the Steelers' All-Pro's on defense became starters, consequently, that defense has been Top 5 (scoring or yards) in six of Ben's seven years there. The previous seven years, they were Top 5 only once.

 

[KJJ]

That was a team meltdown in 08. You keep bringing that up though.

I keep bringing it up because that meltdown all started with Romo. Go back and review the way he played against Pittsburgh and go review the way Roethlisberger played and you'll see why Big Ben is in position to win his 3rd SB ring.

That great defense allowed 2 80 yard runs against Baltimore as Romo keeps trying to bring the team back. You forget that part don't you?

Before that Romo was lofting 2 heaves to Ed Reed you forget that part didn't you? Those 2 picks help put the Cowboys in an early hole.

While Romo was completing 53% of his passes with a passer rating of 66.2 ROOKIE Joe Flacco completed 68% of his passes and finished with a passer rating of 96.9.

Maybe this explains why Flacco's won 4 playoff games which is more wins than Romo has playoff appearances.

That great defense allowed 2 80 yard runs against Baltimore as Romo keeps trying to bring the team back. You forget that part don't you?

Romo turned the ball over twice and wasn't efficient which left the defense on the field a lot you forgot that part didn't you?

Romo got outplayed by a ROOKIE QB at HOME in a big game.

Flacco showed poise and leadership which is something that Romo doesn't seem to have especially in meaningful games.

Then they had the total meltdown against Philly. But keep blaming that on Romo if it makes you feel better.

I didn't blame it all on Romo but he played a part in that loss care to deny it? He had 3 turnovers in that game and finished with a passer rating of 55.8.


Are you going to tell me he's shows the poise and leadership in big games that Roethlisberger and Rodgers show?

Even Sanchez yesterday showed poise and leadership when his team was down 24-0.

He hung in there in a very difficult situation against a physical team and helped bring his team back.

He wasn't sulking on the sidelines the way Romo does. Even after the game Sanchez was consoling one of his teammates.

Go find the post game interview with Romo after the Philly debacle in 08 he sounded relieved the season was over it was like a big load was lifted off his back.

Romo is a very talented QB who can put up some terrific numbers but he simply hasn't show he has what it takes between the ears to get it done in Jan ESPECIALLY on the road in a hostile environment.

All it takes is one bad play in that type of atmosphere for the wheels to come off him. Go ahead and be in denial but the game film doesn't lie.

Romo has had to carry this team since 2007, these other players you mention have teams around them. You have the audacity to take Romo to task for the Minnesota loss and the NY Giants losses in the playoffs when the line gets run through like a sieve. Whne Romo has the perfect pass to an open Crayton who stops his route!

Romo's had good teams around him especially the 07 team.

He didn't play well against the Giants in the 07 playoffs and he didn't play well against Minn in the playoffs in 09.

He had a combined 4 turnovers in those games and wasn't efficient. Go check his numbers and compare them to his opposing QB.

I blame Crayton more than anyone for the Giants loss in 07 but Romo still didn't get it done. He played well against NY during the regular season but when everything was on the line he couldn't get it done.

His game went completely in the tank in Dec of 08. It was painful to watch.

The Packers had 15 players on IR this season and Rodgers lost one of his biggest pass receiving threats in Finley but it didn't stop him from getting his team to the SB. Romo isn't able to elevate his team.

There's been rumors that some in the locker room don't believe in him. Kitna looked more efficient than Romo when he took over and team looked better with him than with Romo.

Like I keep saying Romo is a very good QB but like Danny White his game comes apart in the games that matter most.

Romo can't seem to blow off a bad play it rattles him and the wheels start coming off his game. His accuracy goes down the drain then the strip sacks and picks start popping up.

He had 2 ill timed turnovers against Tenn and Jacksonville this season in the final 7 min of both games that helped seal the Cowboys fate.

Even though Romo is a much more productive QB than Roethlisberger during the regular season he isn't even half the QB Roethlisberger is in post season.

Cowboy fans could only WISH in their wildest dreams that Romo could make the plays that Roethlisberger makes in critical situations during Jan.

I listed the 9 most most productive QB's in NFL history and they only have 4 SB wins between them.

Of those 9 QB's 5 of them never even got their team to a SB. Romo has talent and is a very productive player but I have serious doubts he has what it takes to lead a team to a championship.

Rodgers folded in the second half, win or lose, if Romo does that he would be beaten to death!

Rodgers played great early in the game but even though his game tailed off and he suffered a bad break on Urlachers int he maintained his poise and didn't allow his game to completely fall apart like we've seen with Romo.

Romo is the one who folds Rodgers hung in during a difficult stretch. You honestly think Romo would have hung in against that Bears defense on the road in Jan?. LOL

Romo already proved he couldn't handle the Bears defense early this past season in week 2 at HOME.

Part of being a great QB is being able to hang in when things aren't going your way.

I didn't see Rodgers sulking on the sidelines when things started going against the Packers. Had that been Romo fans would be thrilled he got us to the SB.

Romo gets beaten to death because the Cowboys keep coming up short! Against Buffalo a few years ago Romo turned the ball over 6 times but helped lead us to a win in the end and he received a lot of credit for bouncing back.