Roster Mismanagement

[big dog cowboy]

Some posters simply do not get it...

In a league with 32 participants and a limited talent pool players are apt to get overpaid rather than underpaid. And with young talent chances are taken on continued development. Thus overpaying is going to occur. And if you don't buckle up and secure younger talent you're going to be forever replacing it as that young talent takes their skill-set elsewhere.

Yep. Have to give the Cowboys credit for continuing to try and bring in talent. No one can deny the door is always revolving. Bring in enough guys and eventually you will hit on some.

 

[darthseinfeld]

People would defend this front office for the next 10 years without results.

CowboysStarter88 says that we all thought he could make a transition? No we didn't. First he came from the Eagles and was already playing in a 4-3. Second, he was not good when we signed him and overpaid him from day 1. The Cowboys have this pension for signing very low rated players to mid card money, and fans back them because they must know what they're doing... They don't.

Ron Leary's contract is a bit much, so I won't be too hard on them for not re-signing him. My point at guard is I've seen Green and Cooper play, and Cooper is better than Green and he isn't as injury prone. This is clearly about the draft pick and the contracts.

You think them signing/trading for JAGs is new. My point is, it isn't at all new. They make a couple of the same mistakes over and over again. They overpay players and they tend to keep them entirely longer than what is logical.

Tyrone Crawford - overpaid.
Nolan Carroll - overpaid.
Benson Mayowa - overpaid.

Why did we keep Hayden for so long? Doug Free? Kyle Wilber? How is Jeff Heath slated to start?

They did the same with Carr, Claiborne.

It's moves like these that separate a perennial super bowl team with a team that struggles to win playoff games despite having establish talent.

Benson Mayowa makes less then 3 million a year and had 6 sacks last season. He is definitely not overpaid

 

[Stash]

Maybe-but he's still a better player.

Where has that ever been shown or proven?

 

[Oh_Canada]

Maybe the fanbase doesn't have to sign off on each and every move as if it's genius? Maybe we can think for ourselves and siagree with those we feel aren't good ones?

Don't get this response. This is a team whose starters will be made up of over 90% own draft picks/udfa's. I say tht's good work especially on a team that won 13 games. You can moan all you want, all I am saying is they can't make everyone happy.

Um..... no. You don't get to have it both ways on this one.

So you obviously think every team gets it right every time? The Pats just cut Kony Ealy. I think it's a sign of smart management to cut losses when they make a mistake, especially when the loss is not financially significant as is the case here.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Where has that ever been shown or proven?

Yes when he plays he is far better, what has Cooper ever done other than be cut?

 

[Stash]

So you obviously think every team gets it right every time? The Pats just cut Kony Ealy. I think it's a sign of smart management to cut losses when they make a mistake, especially when the loss is not financially significant as is the case here.

No, I agree that the cut was smart, but you can't claim that in retrospect the signing wasn't a mistake.

 

[Stash]

Yes when he plays he is far better,

Says who? Who has ever said that Glazz Green was a better player than Cooper? It's certainly not been shown in the field this year.

And for what? 2 games? Are we going to point to two games last year as some vindication? Really?

what has Cooper ever done other than be cut?

Played more games, if nothing else.

Played well enough to be drafted as a top 10 overall pick.

And Chaz Green? What's he ever done except for getting injured even more and more often?

Are we just supposed to take people's word for it?

 

[xwalker]

I'm stunned to see a couple reports out there that are baffling to me. The only conclusion I can come to and maybe this is my own bias, but it seems people are trying to save face on previous decisions and are seriously doubling down.

Chaz Green expected to start at Left Guard over Jonathan Cooper and Kellen Moore to be re-signed?

Absolutely baffled by both of these moves on top of the slew of JAGs we brought in last minute who have no knowledge of the system in Dallas.

Moore has proven he can't play and at best you're going to rob Rush of *some* reps.

Green has proven he can't stay healthy but they're going to plug him in there at guard because they invested a 3rd round pick on him and they still have two years of his contract whereas Cooper is a free agent at the end of the year and I'm sure they don't want to have to pay Martin and him if Cooper progresses. At this rate you can probably sign Cooper again to an extension without paying him if he doesn't start.

This mismanagement is also highlighted with the Cedric Thornton release. They gave this guy 3 million guaranteed for this season and most of us knew he was a JAG from day 1. The same can be said for Nolan Carroll.

Green has been terrific when he has played (i.e. 2 starts at LT last season). I think they want to keep Green/Cooper motivated but also with pressure to keep their roster spot.

QB Moore keeps Rush from being overwhelmed if needed. You players, especially QBs can be ruined if thrown into games before they're ready.

Thorton was a much better player in Philly even in 2015. He gave Zack Martin problems with zone run blocking. Getting paid seemed to kill his drive to succeed and he appeared to lose too much weight for some reason. It's not that much money in the big picture.

The jury is out on Nolan Carroll.

 

[Nightman]

Cutting Thornton who at least is a decent DT and is owed a guaranteed 3m was bad management.......9m for 1 year and he was 3x better than Hayden ever was..... is Price any better?

Bringing back KMoore is bad management ...... a huge blind spot

Messing with Rico is dumb...... he can already play in this league......turn Zeus loose

We keep guys like Free, Hayden, Carr, Street, KMoore way too long

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I'm stunned to see a couple reports out there that are baffling to me. The only conclusion I can come to and maybe this is my own bias, but it seems people are trying to save face on previous decisions and are seriously doubling down.

Chaz Green expected to start at Left Guard over Jonathan Cooper and Kellen Moore to be re-signed?

Absolutely baffled by both of these moves on top of the slew of JAGs we brought in last minute who have no knowledge of the system in Dallas.

Moore has proven he can't play and at best you're going to rob Rush of *some* reps.

Green has proven he can't stay healthy but they're going to plug him in there at guard because they invested a 3rd round pick on him and they still have two years of his contract whereas Cooper is a free agent at the end of the year and I'm sure they don't want to have to pay Martin and him if Cooper progresses. At this rate you can probably sign Cooper again to an extension without paying him if he doesn't start.

This mismanagement is also highlighted with the Cedric Thornton release. They gave this guy 3 million guaranteed for this season and most of us knew he was a JAG from day 1. The same can be said for Nolan Carroll.

Anyone who thinks this team makes decisions based solely on what we have invested in a player see Cedric Thornton.

 

[Toruk_Makto]

I think Cooper was a great signing and he should be given the opportunity to start. If he can't hack it, then let Green replace him, but even that won't be for very long as he won't be able to stay healthy.

Carroll is going to be a starter, not just veteran depth. And asking what else could be done here is a bit of a misnomer. In reality they've mismanaged the cornerback position from the start. The situation we're dealing with now is very late in the series of mismanagement. I wouldn't have kept Carr and Claiborne for as long as they did and my posting record here supports that.

Mayowa is a result of the front office not taking the defensive line very seriously. They've really botched putting together an even decent line.

Why should Cooper be given anything? What Rush shows us is that this organization won't ignore the results on the field.

Green simply has not outplayed Chaz (and Chaz hasn't really outplayed Green).

This isn't complicated.

 

[CowboysFaninHouston]

I'm stunned to see a couple reports out there that are baffling to me. The only conclusion I can come to and maybe this is my own bias, but it seems people are trying to save face on previous decisions and are seriously doubling down.

Chaz Green expected to start at Left Guard over Jonathan Cooper and Kellen Moore to be re-signed?

Absolutely baffled by both of these moves on top of the slew of JAGs we brought in last minute who have no knowledge of the system in Dallas.

Moore has proven he can't play and at best you're going to rob Rush of *some* reps.

Green has proven he can't stay healthy but they're going to plug him in there at guard because they invested a 3rd round pick on him and they still have two years of his contract whereas Cooper is a free agent at the end of the year and I'm sure they don't want to have to pay Martin and him if Cooper progresses. At this rate you can probably sign Cooper again to an extension without paying him if he doesn't start.

This mismanagement is also highlighted with the Cedric Thornton release. They gave this guy 3 million guaranteed for this season and most of us knew he was a JAG from day 1. The same can be said for Nolan Carroll.

you totally mismanaged this thread!!!!

Parcells used to call it churning the bottom of the roster. Green was better at LG, but he has been injured. cooper was ok, in run game, not as good in pass protection. so not sure what's baffling you? they were too close to call, so take your pick... yes, they are waiting to see if Green is healthy enough to play, if not they go with Cooper. what's wrong with that?

and Moore is resigned....to practice Squad. in the one hand you complain about brining in players that don't know dallas system. on the other hand you complain when they do!!! Moore is the back up, 3rd stringer. if Rush has to play, then Moore is his back up. or do you prefer somebody totally new? and if Dak goes down and Rush goes down. we are screwed anyway!!!!

Cedric Thornton? the guy with all of 22 tackles last year. who couldn't do anything and was 4th on the depth chart now..... that guy....so they replaced him with someone, a little bigger and stronger.... he is 4th on the depth chart...what's the worry? its churning the bottom of the roster. Thornton was defintley at the bottom.

btw, with all the rookies missing time...carroll provide veteran presence and is a starter!!!!

and players who don't know the system? NE just traded for 5 players, couple after cut down day. Seattle did 7..... hmmm

 

[xwalker]

Agreed. The plan on defense is to survive while the offense thrives. If they get lucky with three or four players that can become difference-makers, they'll be ecstatic.

They did use the 1st three picks on defense.

They want to develop their own players and only use free agency for stop gaps. They obviously prioritized offense over defense in the past which is good because they've finally developed a team identity and offense takes longer to come together than defense.

 

[xwalker]

People would defend this front office for the next 10 years without results.

CowboysStarter88 says that we all thought he could make a transition? No we didn't. First he came from the Eagles and was already playing in a 4-3. Second, he was not good when we signed him and overpaid him from day 1. The Cowboys have this pension for signing very low rated players to mid card money, and fans back them because they must know what they're doing... They don't.

Ron Leary's contract is a bit much, so I won't be too hard on them for not re-signing him. My point at guard is I've seen Green and Cooper play, and Cooper is better than Green and he isn't as injury prone. This is clearly about the draft pick and the contracts.

You think them signing/trading for JAGs is new. My point is, it isn't at all new. They make a couple of the same mistakes over and over again. They overpay players and they tend to keep them entirely longer than what is logical.

Tyrone Crawford - overpaid.
Nolan Carroll - overpaid.
Benson Mayowa - overpaid.

Why did we keep Hayden for so long? Doug Free? Kyle Wilber? How is Jeff Heath slated to start?

They did the same with Carr, Claiborne.

It's moves like these that separate a perennial super bowl team with a team that struggles to win playoff games despite having establish talent.

Thorton was a 3-4 DE in Philly.

I watched all of his snaps from 2015 after the Cowboys signed.

Maybe you should try spending time being more informed an less just complaining.

 

[xwalker]

I think Cooper will start, for what its worth. I think they really want Green to be the starter, and if healthy, he'd probably be an elite offensive guard, but he just can't stay healthy and never really has. They won't just cut him outright, because he's under contract and he can always maybe put it together health wise, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us go with a guard in the draft in 2018.

I agree on Claiborne, but not Carr. Carr was solid, if unspectacular, his entire time. He wasn't Revis with INTs, but he was a steady player his entire time here and with how the rules are for DBs these days, it's a miracle he was able to do as well as he did (or anyone who plays decent, for that matter - fantasy football officiating is basically set up for DBs to lose consistently). I also think the Cowboys made a mistake releasing Terence Newman several years ago, which I'll get into a little bit below.

I think Mayowa is a result of the same thing the Newman release and Claiborne drafting were a result of -- the front office, scouts, etc. giving too much deference to the defensive coach. All of these defensive linemen we keep drafting are Marinelli types -- maybe it's time the scouts and front office realize that Marinelli doesn't really seem to know what he's doing with respect to DL talent and just give him players and tell him to adjust. We've always gotten into trouble on defense when we try to draft and sign scheme fits instead of just drafting ballers and fitting the scheme around them like we're doing on offense now.

Edit: I also am enjoying this chat -- good football talk.

Price at DT seems to be a move away from smallish Marinelli types (6-3, 322 when drafted). Cowboys roster is wrong.

Also Ash on PS is a 320 pound DT.

 

[coult44]

I'm stunned to see a couple reports out there that are baffling to me. The only conclusion I can come to and maybe this is my own bias, but it seems people are trying to save face on previous decisions and are seriously doubling down.

Chaz Green expected to start at Left Guard over Jonathan Cooper and Kellen Moore to be re-signed?

Absolutely baffled by both of these moves on top of the slew of JAGs we brought in last minute who have no knowledge of the system in Dallas.

Moore has proven he can't play and at best you're going to rob Rush of *some* reps.

Green has proven he can't stay healthy but they're going to plug him in there at guard because they invested a 3rd round pick on him and they still have two years of his contract whereas Cooper is a free agent at the end of the year and I'm sure they don't want to have to pay Martin and him if Cooper progresses. At this rate you can probably sign Cooper again to an extension without paying him if he doesn't start.

This mismanagement is also highlighted with the Cedric Thornton release. They gave this guy 3 million guaranteed for this season and most of us knew he was a JAG from day 1. The same can be said for Nolan Carroll.

I have a bigger issue than any these in the past week. How much did we here about the "War Daddy" this off season? Well, he was available for next to nothing and he's in Seattle right now. The rich got richer and we stood still or went forward with dumb moves. Sheldon Richardson would've taken our defense to another level , and instead, we let Seattle swoop in and take him right from under us. This was a HUGE mistake by the FO.

 

[jrumann59]

Take another look at the talent at all offensive line positions league wide after most starters and you'll see why the offensive line looks the way it does.

Personally, I would've waived Cedric Thornton earlier, restructured whoever I needed to, and signed Ronald Leary to an extension - especially at the contract that he received, which once Romo's dead money comes off the books is not cost prohibitive to signing anybody else.

You also have picked a strange group of people to complain about "roster mismanagement" -- cherry picking a couple of depth signings absent examining the starting lineup is kind of a funny way to make your argument, in my opinion.

To keep Leary I am willing to bet his contract here would have to be at least 15% over the highest suitor. He was done here, that bridge was burned to the creek bed.

 

[Oh_Canada]

Says who? Who has ever said that Glazz Green was a better player than Cooper? It's certainly not been shown in the field this year.

And for what? 2 games? Are we going to point to two games last year as some vindication? Really?



Played more games, if nothing else.

Played well enough to be drafted as a top 10 overall pick.

And Chaz Green? What's he ever done except for getting injured even more and more often?

Are we just supposed to take people's word for it?

So with your logic Jared Goff is a better player than Dak Prescott??

Since he was drafted earlier.

Two games of Chaz Green demonstrated to me he is a better player than Cooper has ever been in the league. Now he is untested at guard, but at least he has shown some competence as an NFL player where as the other guy has not. We all know Cooper will get his shot once Green suffers his first hang nail, but for now the team obviously feels Green is the superior player.

 

[Stash]

So with your logic Jared Goff is a better player than Dak Prescott??

In what way?

 

[visionary]

I'm stunned to see a couple reports out there that are baffling to me. The only conclusion I can come to and maybe this is my own bias, but it seems people are trying to save face on previous decisions and are seriously doubling down.

Chaz Green expected to start at Left Guard over Jonathan Cooper and Kellen Moore to be re-signed?

Absolutely baffled by both of these moves on top of the slew of JAGs we brought in last minute who have no knowledge of the system in Dallas.

Moore has proven he can't play and at best you're going to rob Rush of *some* reps.

Green has proven he can't stay healthy but they're going to plug him in there at guard because they invested a 3rd round pick on him and they still have two years of his contract whereas Cooper is a free agent at the end of the year and I'm sure they don't want to have to pay Martin and him if Cooper progresses. At this rate you can probably sign Cooper again to an extension without paying him if he doesn't start.

This mismanagement is also highlighted with the Cedric Thornton release. They gave this guy 3 million guaranteed for this season and most of us knew he was a JAG from day 1. The same can be said for Nolan Carroll.

Just when you begin to think this FO might be learning something you realize they're still making plenty of idiotic decisions