Roy covering Shockey-->>Whose Idea?

[WoodysGirl]

OK, one more time:

1. Wade clearly said after the first half, that they would double Shockey. This means that the game-plan was adjusted to limit an EFFECTIVE Shockey.

2. 7 of Shockey's catches were for a first down. 1 of the 12 catches he made was for a TD. And none of those were after the catch. I am quite sure that, while the game-plan was to give Shockey the underneath plays, these underneath plays did not include those that essentially mean giving away first downs to sustain Giant drives.

It was essentially in the second-half, when the game plan was adjusted that the Giants offense simply became unproductive.

3. 7 or 8 yard receptions? That is quite a chunk of yardage...

4. 17 of those 20 points you mentioned were in the first-half, before Shockey was doubled.

I've pretty much tried to stay out of this thread. But just going by the gamebook, Roy was responsible for three catches, one of which was for the TD in the first half. So, I guess my question is was it the scheme then that wasn't working?

1-10-DAL 48 (9:39) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 80-J.Shockey to DAL 44 for 4 yards (31-R.Williams).

3-4-DAL 8 (6:21) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 80-J.Shockey for 8 yards, TOUCHDOWN.

1-10-NYG 26 (5:05) 10-E.Manning pass deep left to 80-J.Shockey pushed ob at NYG 48 for 22 yards (41-T.Newman).

1-10-NYG 27 (14:51) 10-E.Manning pass short left to 80-J.Shockey ran ob at NYG 31 for 4 yards [72-S.Bowen].

2-6-NYG 31 (14:21) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 80-J.Shockey to NYG 38 for 7 yards (31-R.Williams).

1-10-DAL 39 (9:33) 10-E.Manning pass short right to 80-J.Shockey to DAL 33 for 6 yards (56-B.James, 26-K.Hamlin).

2-7-DAL 7 (5:29) (Shotgun) 10-E.Manning pass short middle to 80-J.Shockey to DAL 1 for 6 yards (56-B.James).

Hmmm, can't wait to watch the replay tomorrow. I would love to see how many of those catches were because of Roy.

 

[khiladi]

I've pretty much tried to stay out of this thread. But just going by the gamebook, Roy was responsible for three catches, one of which was for the TD in the first half. So, I guess my question is was it the scheme then that wasn't working?

Hmmm, can't wait to watch the replay tomorrow. I would love to see how many of those catches were because of Roy.

Thanks, I was trying to find the game logs for the passing plays. I wanted to get a gage of where and when Shockey caught the ball. You raised a very valid point, that I bolded.

If your going to do an analysis, let us know what you find when you watch the re-play...

 

[WoodysGirl]

Thanks, I was trying to find the game logs for the passing plays. I wanted to get a gage of where and when Shockey caught the ball. You raised a very valid point, that I bolded.

If your going to do an analysis, let us know what you find when you watch the re-play...

Me? I'm not an Xs and Os person, but I'll try to formulate an opinion or two on what I see.

Link to the gamebook:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...yPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG10

 

[khiladi]

Me? I'm not an Xs and Os person, but I'll try to formulate an opinion or two on what I see.

Link to the gamebook:
http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playb...yPage=tab_play_by_play&season=2007&week=REG10

Thanks again for the link...

 

[Hostile]

So you judge players' coverage responsibilities by the presnap alignment? Do you know anything about football at all?

Yes.

Yes.

eduncan22 >>> :spanking: <<< Kilyin

I can't believe he admitted that's how he judges assignments.

Ignore the 2nd yes, the first one tells you all you need to know.

 

[TheOneROWilliE]

Roy Is My Hero!~

 

[dcowboysfan76]

I have not read this entire thread, and I feel there is no need to. I will say this: The Cowboys can't shut down everyone. The player that was most productive the first time against us was Plaxico Burress and we limited him to under 30 yards receiving. That is a major accomplishment IMO, considering how he's on his way to Hawaii (in some people's eyes)....Also, I've been a part of a 100 post thread recently on Roy's coverage skills, and after looking at this game he wasn't at fault for a lot of Shockey's catches. It's also obvious that the Giants' plan was to isolate Shockey against Roy, and IMO Roy performed admirably against one of the top 5 TE's in the entire league.

:suxjints:

 

[aikemirv]

I think the main reason that the Dallas fan base hates on RW so much is the expectations they have set in their mind.

People need to expand their horizons a little and watch more that just the Cowboys game every week and really focus in on all these other "stud" STRONG safeties around the league.

If they watch close enough they will realize that all SS have 1 common weakness... coverage ability.

Safeties, specifically STRONG safeties get beat around the league every weekend.

And naturally, being a safety, if you get beat its usually for a big play since you are the LAST level on defense.

You are exactly right with these points and I find myself guilty of this sometimes too. Not many Cowboy fans watch every play of every other team and SS around the league. I know none of them watch every game

What you then get is the sometime "Great game" by a Polamaluo or somebody else and they expect RW to play like that every week and that is just flat out not fair and beyond expectations.

I really do not expect RW to man up the best TE's in the league because that is just not the norm at all for a SS but everyone expects RW to be the best FS and SS combined and that is not what he is. He is a SS not a FS period. Get over it!

He has stopped the horsecollar and he has done much better wrapping up in the past few games so I am fine with his play.

 

[smarta5150]

So you judge players' coverage responsibilities by the presnap alignment?

Yes.

WOW

Way to prove to EVERYONE on this board you don't know what you are talking about.

 

[zrinkill]

WOW

Way to prove to EVERYONE on this board you don't know what you are talking about.

Edunce proved that a long time ago.

 

[Hostile]

WOW

Way to prove to EVERYONE on this board you don't know what you are talking about.

Apparently in his world there are no such things as stunts, shifts, motion, blitzes or zones.

It explains a lot. Basically I think it means he comes to the Zone looking to pull stunts that shift attention from his motion sickness-like lack of understanding of basic football concepts so that we don't notice that his ineptitude means he has no idea how to blitz a girl.

In short, celibacy sucks.

 

[dbair1967]

Edunce proved that a long time ago.

:laugh2:

David

 

[AdamJT13]

1. The TD by Shockey, where he played so far deep that Shockey ran un-impeded into the end-zone. You play deep coverage to stay in-between the player and the end-zone. In this case, Shockey was at least 3 feet in the end-zone, before Roy came up to him, essentially negating the very point of playing that far off.

That's not correct. Roy was right on Shockey at the goal line. He couldn't have gotten any closer. It was just a good throw to Shockey's back shoulder.

That wasn't a difficult pass for ELi to throw.

Oh really?

Jeremy Shockey had 12 catches. 8 of those in the first half. 7 of his catches went for a 1st down, and he had no YAC. 1 of them was a TD, so 8 out of the 12 times he caught the ball, he either scored or got a first down, with no YAC.

No YAC? Shockey got YAC on seven out of 12 catches. Only two of his catches against Roy went for a first down.

How many of those that were on Roy, I am not sure.

Obviously.

 

[zrinkill]

Its almost painful to watch Adam meticulously carve up each of these guys arguments.

Its like Romo feasting on the Eagles secondary.

 

[AdamJT13]

I've pretty much tried to stay out of this thread. But just going by the gamebook, Roy was responsible for three catches, one of which was for the TD in the first half.

You can't just go by who made the tackle. Newman tackled Shockey when Ayodele was covering him, and nobody tackled him on one of the catches against Roy (Shockey stepped out of bounds).

So, I guess my question is was it the scheme then that wasn't working?

There wasn't just one "scheme" that we used. There were different schemes for different formations and situations. Sometimes Shockey was lined up wide, sometimes he was lined up tight or in the backfield. Sometimes we were in a 3-4, sometimes we were in a nickel or dime. Sometimes we played man-to-man, sometimes we played zone or prevent zone.

People keep saying that we changed schemes in the second half, but the biggest change actually was the way the Giants used Shockey. Instead of splitting Shockey wide, they usually kept him in tight on pass plays, probably because their tackles couldn't handle our pass rush.

 

[dallasfaniac]

• Michael Huff, Raiders. 0 INT, 7 PD
• Sean Jones, Browns. 7 INT, 22 PD
• Troy Polamalu, Steelers. 5 INT, 23 PD
• Adrian Wilson, Cardinals. 7 INT, 21 PD
• Jermaine Phillips, Bucs. 5 INT, 17 PD
• Roy Williams, Cowboys. 10 INT, 27 PD

I have put up the pass defensive stats for these guys over the last 3 years. Let's see how they stack up. Hmmm, Roy has more INTs and PD than all of the guys you have listed? He must be a HUGE liability in coverage compared to those guys.

 

[khiladi]

That's not correct. Roy was right on Shockey at the goal line. He couldn't have gotten any closer. It was just a good throw to Shockey's back shoulder.

Please... I saw the same game to. Let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Roy caught Shockey right at the goal-line. The TD pass was a TD pass for 8 yards, meaning Shockey ran at least 8 yards, turned around and caught a ball straight in his chest, or in your words 'back shoulder'. This coupled by the fact that Roy was behind Shockey, and had no way of making the play. Whether it was at Shockey's "back shoulder", which it really wasn't, or his abdomen or his groin, he would have made the catch, because Roy had absolutely no position on him, i.e. he was behind Shockey. And your talking like that was good coverage?

Whoopity-doo, because according to you, Roy caught Shockey 8 yards down the field, right at the 'goal-line'...

Have you even played sports, or do you just look at statistics?

Oh really?

Uh yeah...

No YAC? Shockey got YAC on seven out of 12 catches. Only two of his catches against Roy went for a first down.

According to SI game stats, he got 0 YAC. And one of the passes went for a TD. And Wade Phillips went to doubling Shockey after the first half. Shockey became ineffective in the 2nd half, but in the first half, he was 3 shy from his best record. What is your point?

Your presenting it like Roy is absolutely flawless in coverage, to the point that you would argue that the pass of Eli Manning was 'incredibly' difficult and was to the 'back shoulder'.

 

[khiladi]

People keep saying that we changed schemes in the second half, but the biggest change actually was the way the Giants used Shockey. Instead of splitting Shockey wide, they usually kept him in tight on pass plays, probably because their tackles couldn't handle our pass rush.

People, including Wade Phillips, who explicitly said that they were going to double Shockey more in the 2nd half, per the announcers on TV.

 

[dallasfaniac]

People, including Wade Phillips, who explicitly said that they were going to double Shockey more in the 2nd half, per the announcers on TV.

So you heard those quotes but you didn't hear Aikman say that it was good coverage but a better throw on Shockey's TD so Roy wouldn't be able to knock it away?

 

[zrinkill]

For all of you Roy apologists who ask what other SS could have covered Shockey. Here you go:

• Michael Huff, Raiders. 0 INT, 7 PD
• Sean Jones, Browns. 7 INT, 22 PD
• Troy Polamalu, Steelers. 5 INT, 23 PD
• Adrian Wilson, Cardinals. 7 INT, 21 PD
• Jermaine Phillips, Bucs. 5 INT, 17 PD
• Roy Williams, Cowboys. 10 INT, 27 PD

Way to make a point man